I need to configure 4 Quantars and DIU-3000's for both analog and digital (encrypted) traffic with phone patch. I currently have the Zetron Model 30 Worldpatches, Quantars and DIU-3000's. Neither the Quantars nor the DIU's have Astro Modem cards.
I received the "W" cables for the DIU's. I believe they (DIU's) were ordered without the phone patch option as it is not mentioned on the shipping document.
I'm wondering whether the Quantar codeplugs will require any Wildcard options and how they interconnect to the DIU's.
Can anyone help me out with this?
Astro DIU-3000 to Quantar configuration
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Astro DIU-3000 to Quantar configuration
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ASTROMODAT
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The Quantar needs nothing "special" here. Whether the Quantar connects locally to the DIU3000 through a limited distance V.24 connection, or via a private line with ASTRO modems at each end, is a transparent consideration as to the operation of the phone patch connected to the DIU.
The only issue with the Quantar and running a phone patch is whether you accomplish this via the rear of the Quantar, or via a DIU. The DIU is the ONLY way to connect a patch to the Quantar if you want to run IMBE, and/or mixed mode, as there is no vocoder in the Quantar. A DIU3000 includes the DVSI IMBE vocoder (and a TON of other circuits and functions), which are necessary in these cases for operation of a console, tone remote, and/or a MRTI whenever you are running exclussively in digital (e.g., IMBE), or mixed mode operations. If you were to ONLY run analog FM, then you could choose to connect your phone patch to the rear accessory connector of the Quantar, or you could still decdie to use the DIU as a phone patch interface point, even in exclusive FM mode. Even for FM, I'd choose to use the DIU for my interface, but I don't have time to go into all of the advantages here.
The phone patch capability is standard on the DIU3000. There is an RJ-45 port on the rear apron of the DIU3000 that is labeled "Phone Patch." You simply connect the phone patch to this port. The rest is based on programming the CSS to enable the patch, and to configure the various patch options and features.
If you interface the DIU3000 to a MRTI2000, there is a custom cable that connects the MRTI to the DIU (FKN4389) that runs $50. It has an RJ-45 jack on the DIU end, and a custom connector that mates to the rear of the MRTI2000 on the MRTI end. It's the MRTI end of things that makes this a custom cable.
I'm not sure what the cable type is for the newer Zetron World Patch 30. You'll need to ask your Motorola salesman. Perhaps it uses an RJ-45 at both ends, albeit you would still need to know all of the necessary connections/pinouts if you were to fabricate such a cable. Heck, it may even be a standard 8 wire cable, with an RJ-45 plug at each end, will work. Either way, your salesman should be able to easily find out for you.
One last point. Keep in mind that those Data 12 packets coming out of your XTS5000/XTL5000 will not be encrypted, even though the digital voice traffic for the phone patch will be. This means that the ASTRO dialed digits (Data 12 packets) will go over the air in the clear, as digital unacknowledged packets, so any dialed digits will not be encrypted. I believe the Data 18 packets (acknowledged) may be encrypted, if you have the current firmware.
The only issue with the Quantar and running a phone patch is whether you accomplish this via the rear of the Quantar, or via a DIU. The DIU is the ONLY way to connect a patch to the Quantar if you want to run IMBE, and/or mixed mode, as there is no vocoder in the Quantar. A DIU3000 includes the DVSI IMBE vocoder (and a TON of other circuits and functions), which are necessary in these cases for operation of a console, tone remote, and/or a MRTI whenever you are running exclussively in digital (e.g., IMBE), or mixed mode operations. If you were to ONLY run analog FM, then you could choose to connect your phone patch to the rear accessory connector of the Quantar, or you could still decdie to use the DIU as a phone patch interface point, even in exclusive FM mode. Even for FM, I'd choose to use the DIU for my interface, but I don't have time to go into all of the advantages here.
The phone patch capability is standard on the DIU3000. There is an RJ-45 port on the rear apron of the DIU3000 that is labeled "Phone Patch." You simply connect the phone patch to this port. The rest is based on programming the CSS to enable the patch, and to configure the various patch options and features.
If you interface the DIU3000 to a MRTI2000, there is a custom cable that connects the MRTI to the DIU (FKN4389) that runs $50. It has an RJ-45 jack on the DIU end, and a custom connector that mates to the rear of the MRTI2000 on the MRTI end. It's the MRTI end of things that makes this a custom cable.
I'm not sure what the cable type is for the newer Zetron World Patch 30. You'll need to ask your Motorola salesman. Perhaps it uses an RJ-45 at both ends, albeit you would still need to know all of the necessary connections/pinouts if you were to fabricate such a cable. Heck, it may even be a standard 8 wire cable, with an RJ-45 plug at each end, will work. Either way, your salesman should be able to easily find out for you.
One last point. Keep in mind that those Data 12 packets coming out of your XTS5000/XTL5000 will not be encrypted, even though the digital voice traffic for the phone patch will be. This means that the ASTRO dialed digits (Data 12 packets) will go over the air in the clear, as digital unacknowledged packets, so any dialed digits will not be encrypted. I believe the Data 18 packets (acknowledged) may be encrypted, if you have the current firmware.
In short, you will need to contact your MSS or Motorola for the proper setup (with your site info in hand) to properly get everything to work as there are quite a few variables involved. If you have no experience in setting this up, now is not a good time to experiment if you need these on the air pretty quick! 
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
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ASTROMODAT
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Actually, the set-up to connect a MRTI (or Zetron World Patch 30) to the DIU (and the subsequent programming) is amazingly easy, especially now with the CSS, as opposed to the old DOS RSS for the DIU. The first time I stumbled through it, I think it took me about an hour, or so, to get most everything working. Over time, I learned a lot more, and did a lot of tweaking, which you will find can go on for a lifetime, once you start learning about all of the really cool features of the DIU3000.
The default parameters will get you 95% to where you'll want to be, once you tell the DIU via the CSS that you are enabling the phone patch functionality. The only real issue for the salesman is the cable part number to connect the World Patch 30 to the DIU3000. And, with some luck, it may very well be a standard ethernet cable (8 wires straight through, with RJ-45's on either end). You may be able to simply ask Zetron for this cable info. Given that you mentioned in your post what amounts to roughly $140,000+ of Motorola gear, I have to believe you guys must have a cooperative Motorola salesman nearby.
Motorola has some excellent manuals available that specifically cover the DIU peripheral devices, such as consoles, phone patches, encryption, trunking, data, and the list goes on. Each of these features/functions has its own separate manual covering that particular aspect of the DIU3000, and the various backflips it can do.
Of all of the 2-way products that Motorola makes, you'll find that the DIU3000 is one of the most amazing gizmoes they sell, what with its bag of tricks that seems almost never ending. I found that the DIU3000 defaults will get you where you want to be, and then over time, you can add new features and functions to your heart's delight, not the least of which is the ability to fully integrate any of the modern repeater controllers to be able to function trtansparently in both analog FM and IMBE digital.
The default parameters will get you 95% to where you'll want to be, once you tell the DIU via the CSS that you are enabling the phone patch functionality. The only real issue for the salesman is the cable part number to connect the World Patch 30 to the DIU3000. And, with some luck, it may very well be a standard ethernet cable (8 wires straight through, with RJ-45's on either end). You may be able to simply ask Zetron for this cable info. Given that you mentioned in your post what amounts to roughly $140,000+ of Motorola gear, I have to believe you guys must have a cooperative Motorola salesman nearby.
Motorola has some excellent manuals available that specifically cover the DIU peripheral devices, such as consoles, phone patches, encryption, trunking, data, and the list goes on. Each of these features/functions has its own separate manual covering that particular aspect of the DIU3000, and the various backflips it can do.
Of all of the 2-way products that Motorola makes, you'll find that the DIU3000 is one of the most amazing gizmoes they sell, what with its bag of tricks that seems almost never ending. I found that the DIU3000 defaults will get you where you want to be, and then over time, you can add new features and functions to your heart's delight, not the least of which is the ability to fully integrate any of the modern repeater controllers to be able to function trtansparently in both analog FM and IMBE digital.
Thanks!
I really appreciate the assistance, as I'm sure we all do.
I should explain that the DIU-3000, Phone Patch and Quantar will all be mounted in the same rack so distances are minimal.
After reading through previous posts in reference to the DIU3000 and Quantar connections, I've understood that Modems are required for Digital/Secure operation in or at both pieces of equipment (Astro or commercial modems). If so, I will more than likely use the Astro Modems in both. The Quantars have the old Station Control Modules (CLN1614A) alongside the standard 6955 WLIB's. I assume that I can use the Quantar Phone Line Inputs or the DB-25 connection for that end, but am not sure where they will connect at the DIU.
I should explain that the DIU-3000, Phone Patch and Quantar will all be mounted in the same rack so distances are minimal.
After reading through previous posts in reference to the DIU3000 and Quantar connections, I've understood that Modems are required for Digital/Secure operation in or at both pieces of equipment (Astro or commercial modems). If so, I will more than likely use the Astro Modems in both. The Quantars have the old Station Control Modules (CLN1614A) alongside the standard 6955 WLIB's. I assume that I can use the Quantar Phone Line Inputs or the DB-25 connection for that end, but am not sure where they will connect at the DIU.
They can talk about us, but they can't talk without us!
You can use the DIU's built in V.24 interface with digital clear or encrypted voice no problem... Your DIU will need the appropriate crypto module, though.
If you use V.24, your Quantars will need optional V.24 cards, which attach to the wireline cards. The Quantar V.24 cards will add a couple of RJ-45 jacks to the front of the Quantar, and this is where you will make your connection to the DIU. The other end of this cable will connect to the COMM (DB-25) connector on the DIU. You'll have to make this cable yourself, as that "W" cable isn't wired right for a DIU/Quantar connection, unless Motorola recently changed something with it. I've got the pinout for a Quantar/DIU V.24 connection somewhere if you need it... Also keep in mind that the V.24 link only carries digital information, so if you need to support analog voice to/from the DIU/patch you'll need to add some additional cables.
If you use V.24, you'll also need a metal cover for the CONTROL and wireline card that has the cut out for the two RJ-45 jacks. The bottom RJ-45 jack is known as "Port 1" and is the one that you'll connect the DIU to.
If you go with Astro Modems, you'll need one for each Quantar and one for each DIU. I believe they are the same board.
V.24 Quantar cards are about half the price of the Astro Modems, which also attach to the Quantar wireline cards. The Astro Modems do work slick if you need to support both analog and digital voice, as one 4-wire connection between the DIU/Quantar is all you need.
Basically, I'd use V.24 if you really didn't want to spend more money on it, or you only needed the phone patch to work in digital.
If you use V.24, your Quantars will need optional V.24 cards, which attach to the wireline cards. The Quantar V.24 cards will add a couple of RJ-45 jacks to the front of the Quantar, and this is where you will make your connection to the DIU. The other end of this cable will connect to the COMM (DB-25) connector on the DIU. You'll have to make this cable yourself, as that "W" cable isn't wired right for a DIU/Quantar connection, unless Motorola recently changed something with it. I've got the pinout for a Quantar/DIU V.24 connection somewhere if you need it... Also keep in mind that the V.24 link only carries digital information, so if you need to support analog voice to/from the DIU/patch you'll need to add some additional cables.
If you use V.24, you'll also need a metal cover for the CONTROL and wireline card that has the cut out for the two RJ-45 jacks. The bottom RJ-45 jack is known as "Port 1" and is the one that you'll connect the DIU to.
If you go with Astro Modems, you'll need one for each Quantar and one for each DIU. I believe they are the same board.
V.24 Quantar cards are about half the price of the Astro Modems, which also attach to the Quantar wireline cards. The Astro Modems do work slick if you need to support both analog and digital voice, as one 4-wire connection between the DIU/Quantar is all you need.
Basically, I'd use V.24 if you really didn't want to spend more money on it, or you only needed the phone patch to work in digital.
Thanks again
Again, my thanks!
I agree with your recommendation to go with the V.24 option-8 Astro Modems would cost much more than 4 V.24 cards. When you say they attach to the wireline cards I assume they go into the same slot the modem card would fit into? Your pinout would be much appreciated!
I was able to locate the cable that runs from the Zetron Model 30 to the Patch jack on the DIU. I will also assume that this will handle the incoming analog from the PSTN lines.
I agree with your recommendation to go with the V.24 option-8 Astro Modems would cost much more than 4 V.24 cards. When you say they attach to the wireline cards I assume they go into the same slot the modem card would fit into? Your pinout would be much appreciated!
I was able to locate the cable that runs from the Zetron Model 30 to the Patch jack on the DIU. I will also assume that this will handle the incoming analog from the PSTN lines.
They can talk about us, but they can't talk without us!
I've seen an installation with that Zetron WorldPatch connected to a DIU, and it worked fine. The only thing you won't be able to do with the V.24 link is have analog radio users use the phone patch. The repeater could still repeat analog if you programmed it to, but the phone patch would never hear any of that traffic if it was connected to the DIU.
The TTN4010 V.24 cards (or Astro Modems) basically snap-on and plug into to the wireline card. You have to remove the wireline card to install them, then slide the whole thing back in. The Astro modem sends/receives it's audio/data through the orange wireline connector on the Quantar backplane, while the V.24 cards create two new RJ-45 jacks on the front of the Quantar.
Here's my notes on the V.24 cable between the Quantar and DIU3000:
DB-25 (DIU COMM) <----> RJ-45 plug (Quantar)
pin 2 <----------------------> pin 5
pin 3 <----------------------> pin 6
pin 4&5 <-------------------> pin 2
pin 7 <----------------------> pin 4
pin 8 <----------------------> pins 7&8
pin 17 <---------------------> pin 3
pin 24 <---------------------> pin 1
The RJ-45 pin numbering scheme is shown on several websites including:
http://www.aptcommunications.com/ncode.htm
or
http://yoda.uvi.edu/InfoTech/rj45.htm
Make sure the Quantar and DIU are programmed for a V.24 link. Using the "internal clock" option seemed to work fine for me.
The TTN4010 V.24 cards (or Astro Modems) basically snap-on and plug into to the wireline card. You have to remove the wireline card to install them, then slide the whole thing back in. The Astro modem sends/receives it's audio/data through the orange wireline connector on the Quantar backplane, while the V.24 cards create two new RJ-45 jacks on the front of the Quantar.
Here's my notes on the V.24 cable between the Quantar and DIU3000:
DB-25 (DIU COMM) <----> RJ-45 plug (Quantar)
pin 2 <----------------------> pin 5
pin 3 <----------------------> pin 6
pin 4&5 <-------------------> pin 2
pin 7 <----------------------> pin 4
pin 8 <----------------------> pins 7&8
pin 17 <---------------------> pin 3
pin 24 <---------------------> pin 1
The RJ-45 pin numbering scheme is shown on several websites including:
http://www.aptcommunications.com/ncode.htm
or
http://yoda.uvi.edu/InfoTech/rj45.htm
Make sure the Quantar and DIU are programmed for a V.24 link. Using the "internal clock" option seemed to work fine for me.
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ASTROMODAT
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I would recommend using the ASTRO modem. Heck, you have already spent $140,000+ on your basic equipment, and unless you use the ASTRO modems, you'll be limited to digital patches only with the V.24 route. It would be a shame to see your set-up be so hamstrung with the V.24 approach. If you are severely limited in funds, I can understand your predicament, though. On the other hand, maybe your intention is to go 100% IMBE and completely dump legacy analog FM, in which case I'd say go for it! (Unless you may want to remote the Quantar in the future, in which case you'll need the ASTRO modems).
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ASTROMODAT
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Re: Thanks again
Would you please let us know what the Motorola Part Nbr is for the cable that runs between the Zetron Model 30 World Patch and the rear apron of the DIU (Phone Patch port)?LMTtech wrote: I was able to locate the cable that runs from the Zetron Model 30 to the Patch jack on the DIU.
Does it appear to be a standard ethernet cable (e.g., with RJ-45 plugs on either end)?
Thanks!
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ASTROMODAT
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Perfect solution! For a completely co-located operation, it sounds like this would be great, it would save money, and you wouldn't have the look-back timer thingy going on, as is the case with the ASTRO modem in a mixed mode case.
xmo, what is the maximum distance limit with the V.24 and VF 4-wire for the set-up as you described it?
I assume the V.24 maximum length is the limiting factor, as opposed to the length of the 4-wire VF circuit?
xmo, what is the maximum distance limit with the V.24 and VF 4-wire for the set-up as you described it?
I assume the V.24 maximum length is the limiting factor, as opposed to the length of the 4-wire VF circuit?
Zetron to DIU interface
I really appreciate the assistance I've received from all of you!
Now to offer something in return, I have the information ASTROMODAT asked for:
The Model 30 came with an optional Zetron supplied : "Model 30 to Motorola Interface Device Kit" PN 950-0480 or 950-0481. Mine was PN 950-0481 (I have no idea what the difference is with 950-480). The kit consists of a small circuit board, a power supply, two cables and an instruction sheet which I will describe below.
The circuit board plugs into the 10-pin slot on the left rear of the Model 30. On the front of the board, there are two jumpers, two caps, two pots, an RJ-45 port where you plug in (as speculated) something a lot like a standard ethernet cable and a 5-pin female jack for the power supply.
The power supply converts 120-250VAC input to 13.5VDC 1.5A output. It was made by "Condor" and they were kind enough to put thier phone number on it: (408)745-7141.
The Interface Device to DIU-3000 cable (Zetron PN 709-7597) pinout:
Interface Device RJ-45---------------DIU RJ-45
Pin 1<----------------------------------->Pin 8
Pin 3<----------------------------------->Pin 6
Pin 4<----------------------------------->Pin 5
Pin 5<----------------------------------->Pin 4
Pin 8<----------------------------------->Pin 8
"515" provided two links for the RJ45 pin numbering scheme earlier in this string.
I also received a male DB-25 to RJ-45 for connection from the Astro DIU to a MRTI-2000 let me know if anyone would like me to figure out the pinout for that.
I will more than likely use the four-wire and V.24 link XMO suggested.
Thanks again and I will let you know how this develops.
Now to offer something in return, I have the information ASTROMODAT asked for:
The Model 30 came with an optional Zetron supplied : "Model 30 to Motorola Interface Device Kit" PN 950-0480 or 950-0481. Mine was PN 950-0481 (I have no idea what the difference is with 950-480). The kit consists of a small circuit board, a power supply, two cables and an instruction sheet which I will describe below.
The circuit board plugs into the 10-pin slot on the left rear of the Model 30. On the front of the board, there are two jumpers, two caps, two pots, an RJ-45 port where you plug in (as speculated) something a lot like a standard ethernet cable and a 5-pin female jack for the power supply.
The power supply converts 120-250VAC input to 13.5VDC 1.5A output. It was made by "Condor" and they were kind enough to put thier phone number on it: (408)745-7141.
The Interface Device to DIU-3000 cable (Zetron PN 709-7597) pinout:
Interface Device RJ-45---------------DIU RJ-45
Pin 1<----------------------------------->Pin 8
Pin 3<----------------------------------->Pin 6
Pin 4<----------------------------------->Pin 5
Pin 5<----------------------------------->Pin 4
Pin 8<----------------------------------->Pin 8
"515" provided two links for the RJ45 pin numbering scheme earlier in this string.
I also received a male DB-25 to RJ-45 for connection from the Astro DIU to a MRTI-2000 let me know if anyone would like me to figure out the pinout for that.
I will more than likely use the four-wire and V.24 link XMO suggested.
Thanks again and I will let you know how this develops.
They can talk about us, but they can't talk without us!
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ASTROMODAT
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Thanks for the great info, LMTech. Very helpful!
The connector you described (with DB-25 connector) is for the MRTI2000 to DIU3000 interface scenario. The Motorola DIU3000/MRTI2000 interface cable comes off the MRTI2000 with IAI's custom 10 pin connector (2 rows of 5 pins), and it terminates to a DB-25. From the DB-25, it mates to an opposite gender DB-25 connector, and that cable terminates in an RJ-11, which plugs into the rear apron of the DIU3000 at the "Phone Patch Port."
I'm curious: Did the RJ-45 to DB-25 cable come supplied with the Zetron World Patch 30 (PN 950-0481)? If so, it seems weird, as I wonder why Zetron would supply a cable for a competitor's product?
The connector you described (with DB-25 connector) is for the MRTI2000 to DIU3000 interface scenario. The Motorola DIU3000/MRTI2000 interface cable comes off the MRTI2000 with IAI's custom 10 pin connector (2 rows of 5 pins), and it terminates to a DB-25. From the DB-25, it mates to an opposite gender DB-25 connector, and that cable terminates in an RJ-11, which plugs into the rear apron of the DIU3000 at the "Phone Patch Port."
I'm curious: Did the RJ-45 to DB-25 cable come supplied with the Zetron World Patch 30 (PN 950-0481)? If so, it seems weird, as I wonder why Zetron would supply a cable for a competitor's product?
Correction
The cable I mentioned did come with the Model 30 and its purpose is for direct connection to the Quantar's back plane (DB-25 Jack number 14).
Let me know if you would like the pinout.
Let me know if you would like the pinout.
They can talk about us, but they can't talk without us!
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ASTROMODAT
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Just wanted to say thanks again and to let you all know that I managed (with your help) to get the first Quantar up and running with the Analog/V.24 setup. It's very nice but I have run into problems with the remaining three radios. I believe thier firmware is too old to support the V.24 link.
They can talk about us, but they can't talk without us!
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ASTROMODAT
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Even if it is really ancient, the Quantar (if properly equipped with either ASTRO VSELP or IMBE firmware for the digital transparent capability option) was always digital capable. The ASTRO modem was always an option in the Quantar and the companion DIU, so I was under the (false?) impression that a digitally capable Quantar would ship standard with V.24, unless the customer overrode this with the ASTRO modem option. If these older Quantars are digital but have no ASTRO modems, I'd think they must have V.24 capablility, or how else could they support VSELP or IMBE with the DIU3000 (or ASTRO DIU) that was there since Day One?
I may very well be wrong, so maybe someone else can weigh in on this that knows for sure. Just curiouis as to how a Quantar could ship that was ASTRO VSELP or IMBE, had no ASTRO modem option, yet also had no V.24 option. In that case, I don't see how a DIU3000 (nor the older ASTRO DIU) could connect to it and handle digital voice traffic.
I may very well be wrong, so maybe someone else can weigh in on this that knows for sure. Just curiouis as to how a Quantar could ship that was ASTRO VSELP or IMBE, had no ASTRO modem option, yet also had no V.24 option. In that case, I don't see how a DIU3000 (nor the older ASTRO DIU) could connect to it and handle digital voice traffic.
All optional.
The V.24 or Astro modem cards are hosted on the Wire Line Interface and the WLI itself is an option.
Obviously - if you have no WLI you have no DIU or console connectivity at all - but then some people just want a repeater with control station / mobile / portable access.
Others may want just the WLI for analog use - so - the V.24 or Astro modem would not be ordered in those cases.
The V.24 or Astro modem cards are hosted on the Wire Line Interface and the WLI itself is an option.
Obviously - if you have no WLI you have no DIU or console connectivity at all - but then some people just want a repeater with control station / mobile / portable access.
Others may want just the WLI for analog use - so - the V.24 or Astro modem would not be ordered in those cases.
I went in this morning and took the SCM from the test-bed repeater and swapped it with that from the second repeater. All of a sudden the V.24 linked up, and everything worked fine. Now I'm digging through about 10 Quantars that we inherited from the US Army's mission in Bosnia to find some more "newer" SCM's. The mission there began in '95 and I guess no-one foresaw the need for the upcoming capabilities.
Once I finish with the remaining three radios, I will post some of the jumper settings for the Quantar and the Zetron to try make the next guy's life a little easier.
Once I finish with the remaining three radios, I will post some of the jumper settings for the Quantar and the Zetron to try make the next guy's life a little easier.