Motorola APCO-25 LTR Trunking
Moderator: Queue Moderator
-
2wayfreq
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 356
- Joined: Sun Dec 09, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: XTS5000 VHF, M-RK II UHF
Motorola APCO-25 LTR Trunking
I know, doesn't really exist yet. Does anyone have any Motorola R&D info or future product specifics that I could get? We currently use analog and yes, it works just fine. However, APCO-25 will be the future and it has its own advantages. PM me if you have to. Thanks
Radio Tech Troubleshooting Golden Rule #1: Check your connections
..
LTR uses subaudible data (like PL) for signalling.
Astro uses imbedded digital signalling.
the two are not compatible, never will be.
doug
Astro uses imbedded digital signalling.
the two are not compatible, never will be.
doug
BRAVO MIKE JULIET ALPHA
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
Question unclear...
I am unclear as to what you are asking - in future, you might try to spell out exactly what you are wanting to know, rather than making us guess.
Are you asking "Does Motorola have a lower cost digital trunking solution, which would be to APCO-25 as LTR is to Smartnet"?
Are you asking "Does Motorola have a system which uses an LTR control channel but an APCO-25 voice channel"?
Are you asking "Does Motorola make a radio that is capable of both APCO-25 trunking and LTR trunking"?
What are you asking? Use your words.
Are you asking "Does Motorola have a lower cost digital trunking solution, which would be to APCO-25 as LTR is to Smartnet"?
Are you asking "Does Motorola have a system which uses an LTR control channel but an APCO-25 voice channel"?
Are you asking "Does Motorola make a radio that is capable of both APCO-25 trunking and LTR trunking"?
What are you asking? Use your words.
This is my opinion, not Aeroflex's.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
Apco-25 is a industry 'standard' for radio interoperability and has little to do with the type of system as it does with the interface, which the P25 standard actually is(roughly speaking).
It sets a standard that all manufacturers must meet in order to 'be' Apco-25 compliant, and in the current context, LTR is not one of those 'compliant' features as it is incapable of interacting with Smartnet, Smartzone trunking, nor can it be easily 'made' to interoperate with the P25 standard as it is currently.
LTR provides no channel steering that is compatible with Apco-25 and it does not follow the same design architecture Apco-25 requires, so in essence, LTR is a stand alone offering only and can not be successfully intertwined within a Smartnet/Smartzone trunking network.
Channel assignments, steering and failsofts are all vastly different in the way they are designed and handled, not to mention authentication, simulcast abilities and handoffs into other 'compatible' service areas served by the network.
Same goes for talk permits, tones and the ever poular ISW/OSW to and from the site controller.
LTR does not have this feature included within the system design.
One other function LTR can not do, is OTAR and key assignments for secure encryption as it was never implemented to begin with.
E.F. Johnson is the inventor of LTR, which has become the defacto standard for reliable and low cost form of trunked radio systems that span UHF, VHF as well as 800 and 900 Mhz.
It is actually designed to be a 'niche' player, and performs that duty quite well with networks of 20 channels or less, plus the build-out time is reduced as overhead costs are far less than those of a Smartnet/Smartzone network, and a lot easier to manage.
That's my opinion on the subject matter.......YMMV of course.
It sets a standard that all manufacturers must meet in order to 'be' Apco-25 compliant, and in the current context, LTR is not one of those 'compliant' features as it is incapable of interacting with Smartnet, Smartzone trunking, nor can it be easily 'made' to interoperate with the P25 standard as it is currently.
LTR provides no channel steering that is compatible with Apco-25 and it does not follow the same design architecture Apco-25 requires, so in essence, LTR is a stand alone offering only and can not be successfully intertwined within a Smartnet/Smartzone trunking network.
Channel assignments, steering and failsofts are all vastly different in the way they are designed and handled, not to mention authentication, simulcast abilities and handoffs into other 'compatible' service areas served by the network.
Same goes for talk permits, tones and the ever poular ISW/OSW to and from the site controller.
LTR does not have this feature included within the system design.
One other function LTR can not do, is OTAR and key assignments for secure encryption as it was never implemented to begin with.
E.F. Johnson is the inventor of LTR, which has become the defacto standard for reliable and low cost form of trunked radio systems that span UHF, VHF as well as 800 and 900 Mhz.
It is actually designed to be a 'niche' player, and performs that duty quite well with networks of 20 channels or less, plus the build-out time is reduced as overhead costs are far less than those of a Smartnet/Smartzone network, and a lot easier to manage.
That's my opinion on the subject matter.......YMMV of course.
Fortunately Apco-25 is only for public safety and NOT the rest of the nation or world for that matter.
Look at how long it took to get THIS far....Think how long it would take to force this 'standard' on the entire globe at the same time*choking*!
Apco-25 still can't intercommunicate due to all the vast differences in topography, gegraphy and of course, money and.... politics!
Darn near like a cat in the hat scenario.....
I can hear it near, I can hear it far, I can even hear it in my car..
I can't hear it in a high rise, I can't hear it in the basement...
This is just some horrible debasement!
How much did we pay?
Can we make it go away?
Bilk the public for still more money, I can't understand why that's funny.
No, I don't care for Apco-25 when analog is well and live...
If you get down to bare facts, SIMPLEX is THE most interoperable system known to mankind, but NOT the most efficient..
This is WHY the majority of ALL public safety agencies have a channel or two dedicated to this very task.
155.475, 153.770, 154.475...whatever YOUR state calls it, be it Azpern, Wispern, it is still a SIMPLEX channel without any tones, so any agency can be in contact with another from several states away if need be, and remain in communication with each other.
How logical is it to toss away a tried and true capability for more glitz and glitter that still pales under the glow of a long established system of systems known as single channel communication?
Even the military recognized this long ago with SINCGARS, Single Channel
Ground to Air communications...ONE channel, NO problems.
Look at how long it took to get THIS far....Think how long it would take to force this 'standard' on the entire globe at the same time*choking*!
Apco-25 still can't intercommunicate due to all the vast differences in topography, gegraphy and of course, money and.... politics!
Darn near like a cat in the hat scenario.....
I can hear it near, I can hear it far, I can even hear it in my car..
I can't hear it in a high rise, I can't hear it in the basement...
This is just some horrible debasement!
How much did we pay?
Can we make it go away?
Bilk the public for still more money, I can't understand why that's funny.
No, I don't care for Apco-25 when analog is well and live...
If you get down to bare facts, SIMPLEX is THE most interoperable system known to mankind, but NOT the most efficient..
This is WHY the majority of ALL public safety agencies have a channel or two dedicated to this very task.
155.475, 153.770, 154.475...whatever YOUR state calls it, be it Azpern, Wispern, it is still a SIMPLEX channel without any tones, so any agency can be in contact with another from several states away if need be, and remain in communication with each other.
How logical is it to toss away a tried and true capability for more glitz and glitter that still pales under the glow of a long established system of systems known as single channel communication?
Even the military recognized this long ago with SINCGARS, Single Channel
Ground to Air communications...ONE channel, NO problems.
..
don't get me wrong, i'm a big fan of P25.
i put up (and sold) three quantars on the ham bands... they're still on the air.
but i fail to understand what the freakin' point is.
you gain ZIPPO switching to P25 from analog....except maybe better fringe area coverage
they should have had a multi-slot configuration for the first iteration of P25... not the second.
i mean really, you're supposed to switch everything out AGAIN to go to phase 2 TDMA?
GTFO!
d
i put up (and sold) three quantars on the ham bands... they're still on the air.
but i fail to understand what the freakin' point is.
you gain ZIPPO switching to P25 from analog....except maybe better fringe area coverage
they should have had a multi-slot configuration for the first iteration of P25... not the second.
i mean really, you're supposed to switch everything out AGAIN to go to phase 2 TDMA?
GTFO!
d
BRAVO MIKE JULIET ALPHA
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
"You can do whatever you want, there are just consequences..."
IF SOMEONE PM'S YOU - HAVE THE COURTESY TO REPLY.
you have a problem with APCO-25 simplex?
As for Global, Tetra is the global standard, Much more Tetra around than APCO.(gee I wonder why?)
With 800 Mhz trunking there is no analog mobiles and only 2 models of privacy plus analog portables left.
It wont be long before analog option disapears for ever in public safety.
Welcome to the digital ERA.
As for Global, Tetra is the global standard, Much more Tetra around than APCO.(gee I wonder why?)
With 800 Mhz trunking there is no analog mobiles and only 2 models of privacy plus analog portables left.
It wont be long before analog option disapears for ever in public safety.
Welcome to the digital ERA.