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I have just embarked on a fairly large (for the layperson) encryption project. I have about 10 radios with DVP encryption boards in them, these radios are primarily Spectras and Syntor X9000's. All radios have been checked and are working fine...except for the encryption portion. Certain radios are exhibiting a weird symptom and it is not limited to just the spectras or the X9000's....some will decode the encrypted signal..and receive very well, but when they Xmit...the other radios are unable to decrypt their signals. What I mean by this is that all I get is the Hash..no voice. It is the strangest thing..and its not limited to just one radio either.
This problem is really annoying me....I have the RSS set up correctly and the radios as well...or at least I think I do...I mean I'd have to... seeing as how some are working ok...all the codeplugs are set up the same way. Also, before anyone asks these are single hybrid boards, and the dual code feature is disabled in all the radios as I thought that may have been the problem originally. Having been frustrated into submission, on a whim..I decided to use a local repeater that is set up as transparent to encrypted signals and pass my radio's encryption through it....wouldn't ya know...they all talk to each other without any problems. However, they still won't talk to each other on simplex. I am at my witts end here...what am I doing wrong...or what do I have set up wrong? Why do they work through a repeater 10 miles away and not 200' away on simplex?
Someone please help me before I pull out all of my hair I'd really appreciate some insight from those of you with experience.
After years of dealing with the public I have realized.....You Just Can't Fix Stupid!
you are quite lucky to get DVP to pass thru a repeater (thats not a DVP capable repeater if thats the case) i have never been able to get DES to work on a repeater, only simplex operation.
wazz
think about how to ENCOURAGE Motorola learning safely with GRACE.....NOT condemnation.
They are all DVP radios, and the XL is turned off in the RSS. Remember, the radios will decrypt transmissions they receive...they just won't Xmit correctly so the other trays can hear them. It is not just limited to the X9000's either..some of the high power spectras are doing it as well. It appears as though the problems are only limited to the 110W trays..all the 45w are working just fine. Even when I switch the encryption boards with ones that I know are working...I get the same results.
Again, they talk just fine through the repeater...just not simplex. As for the repeater it is either a MSF5000 VHF or a Quantar VHF...Its been a while since I was at the site...I can't really remember which one it is.
Is there some type of deviation setting that needs to be tweaked? This morning I noticed if the vehs got really close..say within 3 feet the encryption worked somewhat.....whats that all about? I know they are Xmitting the full power..I can watch my dome lights dim..and the wattmeter says 100W.
WHAT AM I MISSING???
After years of dealing with the public I have realized.....You Just Can't Fix Stupid!
Just because the vehicle's dome light dims on transmit and the RF wattmeter indicates 100 watts output, does not mean the transmitter is on the correct Tx frequency. Get out your Service Monitor or Frequency Counter and Measure the Talk-Around or Simplex RF Channel Frequency.
The radios have not been aligned in secure mode. As far as deviation is concerned...how is that adjusted and/or measured in the spectra and the X9000? I am sure the radios are on the correct freq. and my "Dome Light Dims" example was an over simplistic example that the radios were indeed Xmitting w/o a VCO unlock condition. If the deviation is too much or not enough....is it possible that the repeater is compensating and boosting/attenuating the signal enough for it to be decoded by the other radios? That is my only guess thus far..also it appears as though all the radios can decode the encryption.....it just seems that some are having difficulties in "transmitting the correct thing"
Thoughts??
Don
After years of dealing with the public I have realized.....You Just Can't Fix Stupid!
I am having a similar problem. We've just noticed today but it seems to ahve been going on for the last few months. We have 3 encrypted nets and it never fails that there is always problems during the monthly rekey. Last month we had problems with an astro base station that I assumed had a bad encryption module. It would take a fictitious key, one that I made up, but not the one we recieve from security. I replaced the base station with a spare and brought the old to the shop to make repairs.
Today we had problems with the same units base station but now it seems the only radios they can communicate with are non multikey radios. If we load a key into a multikey radio it will talk with other mkey radios but not the single key ones. This can be done through the repeater as well as in direct mode. I can't seem to find anything right now to explain this situation.
To make this short I want to say that I will try to disable the multikey function, if that is possible, or load the radios with more than one key. I haven't done alot of rekeying and loading of the keys. This is usually done by the military for security reasons and to save money. I wonder if there is some reason that the multikey radios will no longer accept the new keys. Is there some fluke that won't allow them to accept the last two keys we've tried. All of these radios have worked well for the past 2 years.
Any help would be greatly appreciated. If I find a solution of course I will post again.
OK a few tips on digital, first check the transmit for 3.75 to 4.25kc digital MAX.Next if that doesn't do it you may have to move the hybrids around, and see if the XL is really being disabled, also check the model numbers on the hybrids, TRN 6777A will not work with the newer TRN 6777B the A was made for Micor series radios only they don't play well with the B's or newer versions of hybrids. Now I am assuming that all this is taking place on simplex, if not your repeater may be set up for XL. Also a friend in the FBI radio shop once told me thay had a lot of problems using simplex with their radios, and stated that they actually worked better through the repeater, even if they were a few feet from one another.
I've had this problem too, well similar, a while back. It involved some Saber's and DES, it would work on Simplex but not through the repeater, which was setup specifically for the radios using DES.
Turned out the repeaters transmit frequency was off slightly, once the owner of the system had the repeater checked and aligned everything worked perfectly...
I'm starting to think that some of your radios are off a bit on transmit.. This would make logical sense since sitting close you mentioned they work somewhat, that's because your close enough that your overloading the other receiver and getting through. It works through the repeater because again i am assuming that the repeater is hearing you ok on say radio A and then transmitting exactly on frequency to radio B, but radio A might actually be off frequency a bit when transmitting direct or talkaroud on the repeater output frequency to radio B, the repeater is managing to receive it fine and is passing the signal to the correct transmit frequency.
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I don't know if this will help but I will let you know what we found. It seems some of our radios on this net were programmed to default transmit DES XL while others weren't. From what I could read the XL came about because the DES decreased the coverage of the radios. The XL was designed to increase the transmission distance close to the same as if the radio was unencrypted.
We hope to someday come up with a standard programming and configuration for all or nets. Dont know if that will fix all the problems but hopefully it will solve some of them.
I'd really appreciate some insight from those of you with experience.
