Alphanumeric paging in the ham band

[RidgeRunner]

I have been kicking around in my head it would be fun to get a xmitter and put a paging xmitter on my tower. It would be kinda fun to use it for weather, band conditions, messaging incidents things like that. I would be interested in something that could forward e-mail SMS type stuff from the internet...things like that does anyone know if any people out there doing this? Also where to start equipment wise?

[Victor Xray]

http://www.hamsexy.com/cms/?p=439

[RidgeRunner]

Ya I actaully read that today, I read on here that some people have messed with it but never really got the project off the ground.

[tvsjr]

Equipment-wise? KPC9612 or a real paging encoder. A real paging transmitter would be nice... since you're not likely running high duty-cycle, you could likely make do with a Maxtrac, TKR750, or something similar.

Subscriber units? Moto makes an Advisor II (in FLEX or POCSAG) which is synthesized and will tune the ham bands. They're in the neighborhood of $100/ea. Not the cheapest, but they're good pagers and you don't have to deal with rerocking them.

[spareparts]

Ya I actaully read that today, I read on here that some people have messed with it but never really got the project off the ground.

Yep, I have messed with it. The technology is not an issue. The main problem is legal. What happens when Joe Ham uses it for his landscaping service or their volunteer FD?

BTW, I can rent an alphanumberic Titan III with multistate coverage for $11.00 a month, with text and internet gateway. Where's the advantatge for a single point system?

[Tom in D.C.]

Let's put this to rest once and for all.
Paging consists of a one-way "broadcast."
The FCC permits one-way transmissions on
the ham bands only in specific, permitted
instances, such as code practice which is
sent from W1AW in Newington, or in the
case of a beacon station.

If you want to try ham band paging go right
ahead, but remember that Hollingsworth
has the Federal Government's power behind
him and I personally would stay out of their
way in anything controversial, despite the
inflammatory wording of that "pager" ad
referred to above.

[spareparts]

despite the inflammatory wording of that "pager" ad referred to above.

Were you refering to my mentioning the Titan III? That's pretty vendor neutral as several of the paging carriers in my market use that model.

[Tom in D.C.]

That "ad" clearly promotes paging on the ham
frequencies, which as you can properly infer from
my statements is not, I believe, presently allowed.

I don't give a hoot about what people do with a
paging system, but you can't do it on the ham bands.
At least that's my understanding of the matter.

There are now in use several methods of paging
individuals via ham frequencies, but these are not
the same as a commercial paging channel where
many different pages are sent continuously. That
constitutes broadcasting. If one guy wants to send
an alerting page to a friend's HT, expecting a reply
via FM radio, that's an entirely different thing.

[spareparts]

That "ad" clearly promotes paging on the ham frequencies, which as you can properly infer from my statements is not, I believe, presently allowed.

Tom,
That is the furthuest thing that should be infered from my statement. That statement referes to the large account pricing currently offered by USA Mobility, which is a common carrier. Verizon wireless rents the same pager for a few bucks less.

Sorry for any confusion on the issue!

Martin

[bellersley]

From what I remember, sending a one way message is allowed if it's intended to establish a two way chat... So I wonder if you could use a pager to tell someone to meet you on whatever frequency.

[RidgeRunner]

Well first off there is some grey area from what I am reading, the way I understand it is that I can do it, but I am not intending using it to broadcast to a large group of people I want to use to get a hold of someone like what bellersley mentioned. I do not see that as any different if I get on to the local repeater and say (insert call here) from N1XBM and I do not get an answer? Have a broken a law, just b/c I am sending a specific message to a device that does not have a xmitter. I am doing this to let my intentions be known that I would like to contact this person.

[kcbooboo]

You may want to take a look at the FCC rules and regulations, specifically sections 97.111 and 97.113. As mentioned above, there are only a few instances where one-way amateur transmissions are allowed, and the use proposed in this thread does not seem to be one of them.

Bob M.

[KB2ZTX]

I am on the fence with this one. Our RACES team has Minitor III / IV pagers and Tone Alert Reciever for this same thing. They use it to alert members of incidents and notification of meetings. I know of other teams that do the same....

JAS

[k2hz]

I am on the fence with this one. Our RACES team has Minitor III / IV pagers and Tone Alert Reciever for this same thing. They use it to alert members of incidents and notification of meetings. I know of other teams that do the same....

JAS

RACES is a different situation. What you describe would probably be OK under 97.407(e) if it is for authorized RACES incidents, training or drills under the direction of the civil defense authority.

The only way I see paging legal for general ham use is as a selective call to a particular station or stations to establish two way communication as permitted by 97.111(b)(2).

[Code3Response]

Ive got a 40 unit Keynote paging setup rocked out on the VHF ham band, and Im either interested in selling it, or utilizing it myself.

So what Im seeing here is that I couldnt use the pagers to alert out and rebroadcast a weather alert or some other type of message? What if the statement was added at the end: "please discuss on 14x.xxx" or similar, showing that it was a 1 way broadcast to strike 2 way conversation, as mentioned above?

[ai4ui]

I think that if your repeater controller is set up to respond to an over-the-air DTMF command to play a two-tone page followed by a DVR message or to allow that user to voice a message over the air for reception on the pagers it would be okay or at least explainable to the FCC. That would be a transmission initiated by a ham, for hams, on the ham band, for ham reasons (that's a lot of ham) and should be perfectly legal.

We do MDC-1200 through our ham system - alert, radio check & messaging. It's a very durable signaling system & doesn't mind going through remote receivers, voters & links. Again, hams initiating transmissions to hams for ham reasons.

The original poster wanted to know about digital pagers on the ham band, the kind where you call a phone number, the system answers, you punch in a phone number & then the system pages over the ham band using whatever digital paging modulation format it is set up for.

The problem with this is that you could give the pager phone number to anyone for any reason. A non-ham could then call up and page you: your employer, a potential customer, your mistress, whatever. There would be no way to know who was sending the page or why. That's where it's not grey, it's black & white. Amateur radio is not supposed to take the place of commercial communications - if Verizon offers digital pagers in your area, I don't think you would be in compliance with any possible interpretation of the rules. Your co-channel neighbors would probably rat you out during the next band opening with all that POCSAG traffic coming from your system.

It's not as economical as it seems either. All I know is that for what I spent & continue spend to on my ham radio repeater system I could have paid for unlimited cellular service for life, and I am paying for a cell phone too anyway.

Regards

Robert

[mr.syntrx]

A paging system doesn't have to be accessed via phone, nor does it necessarily only transmit phone numbers. You could access it via a packet BBS, for example.

Failing using the ham bands, does the FCC have the equivalent of the Scientific Non-Assigned license available down here? Very cheap, and allows the use of certain frequencies in various bands for whatever you like on the basis that no protection from interference will be afforded for testing, research, general experimentation etc.