CDM series radio jumping channels on power down

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Fri Oct 13, 2006 9:39 pm

Anyone else have the problem of CDM radios jumping channels if you cut the power via the main power lead?
Problem started with version R05..05.15 firmware. Aparwently the radio no longer "saves" the last known channel unless you power down by the front panel power switch or the ignition lead. It is a real problem for our trucks with a main battery kill switch.

HLA · Post by **HLA** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:37 am

leave the hot wire hot all the time and just kill the trigger wire with the switch.

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:28 am

Not an option on a vehicle with a battery kill switch.

rrfd43 · Post by **rrfd43** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:44 am

All of the fire trucks I mange cdms in I hot power the radios all the time and use the igntion switch right off the kill switch. Works fine without any issues. Same channel each time. Got em in trucks from the 1980's to 2003.

HLA · Post by **HLA** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 2:45 pm

it is absolutely an option, just run the hot wire to the battery and bypass the switch, it will still turn off with the trigger wire and battery drain is very minimal. or reprogram your radios and make your main frequency channel 1.

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 7:23 pm

Maybe things are done different here, but all of the heavy equipment has the battery switch in the negetive lead of the battery. When the night switch is opened the battery is isolated from the vehicle by opening the negetive lead. This is standard vehicle manufactured functionality.
We have the hot lead straight to the battery positive. But power is killed to the radio to to no electrons from the battery as the negitive terminal is no longer connected to the frame.
No way to maintain power to the radio with the vehicle battery switch turned off.

We ran that way for 5 years, until the radios were upgraded to the new firmware as per a Motorola SRN. Now we have channel jumping.
Motorola says they are aware of the issue. In the new firmware they no longer update the radio memory with any channel changes except for when there is a soft power down (push button, or ignition wire).

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 8:43 pm

Ok... run the neg right to the battery.

Will · Post by **Will** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 9:18 pm

The Pager Geek wrote:Ok... run the neg right to the battery.

Ahh, a good way to burn up his radio! And the battery is STILL connected with the radio and it's cable becoming a 'fusee' ....

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:03 pm

You take away all the fun....

MotoMax300 · Post by **MotoMax300** » Sat Oct 14, 2006 10:45 pm

Run a rechargable 10-12 volt cicut parralled in with a relay cutoff circut to the ign, when ign/batt cut off, it enables the backup battery to the radio cons+ for memory save, when ign on it chrg's the backup battery if needed.

wait, just install a clock battery with a diode. lol.

Garyf629 · Post by **Garyf629** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 3:14 pm

In 30+ years of working on ambulances, fire trucks, and police crusiers, I have never seen the battery switch wired to the negative lead. In fact, I just looked up KKK specs for ambulances, they require any type of battery switching to be on the positive lead ONLY!

Is this something that is done by your department? If it is, see if you can change it to switch the positive lead. It should not take much, just some battery cables.

The only time I have seen this is when the battery lead on the radio was disconnected, and the radio was trying to power itself from the ING sense.

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:15 pm

These are logging trucks. Full size tractor units. all are factory standard wiring.

I think the main point is being missed here. Product works proper for 5 years. Firmware upgrade done. Product no longer works proper.

Why is this my problem? It comes down to a software developer that is out of touch with the application where the product is being used.

RF_Burns · Post by **RF_Burns** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 7:40 pm

Most heavy equipment has the Neg lead switched on the cutout. Whats more fun is on 24V systems, customer's try to save on the voltage convertor by hooking radio between batteries to get 12V... first time they turn off the main switch.. Reverse Polarity and the magic smoke comes out!

These problems are caused by the new generation of engineers and programmers who have no idea how this equipment is used in the real world. They just say that feature is "No Longer Supported"

I haven't seen anywhere to add a lithuim battery myself on the CDM, have to look into that.
We have a 2-step power down timer that would work along with a small SLA battery. it powers off the ignition sense, then cuts the main power a few seconds later.

chartofmaryland · Post by **chartofmaryland** » Sun Oct 15, 2006 8:37 pm

Did an install not too long ago on on some Catapiller Heavy earth movers. 24 Volt Neg switched. Installed a 24 Volt converter and it handles the shift in polarity and voltages very well. Wired to the switched side of the master.

CoM

KuhnElectronics · Post by **KuhnElectronics** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 1:44 pm

yeh, i have had the same problem start popping up recently for a rural county engineer outpost...

their cdm1250s are in these old beater trucks with the worlds worst set of batteries...and even the slightest current draw of the radio being "off" (shut off by ign sense on pin 10) will run their batteries dead, especially when they dont start them but maybe 1 once every week and a half or something...

so we moved the main power leads over to the ignition source, and they worked well...

well after firmware upgrade, we started seeing these radios re-boot on odd channels...

sometimes it will be the first position in the list...sometimes the eighth, or once or twice the 5th or 6th...

and this is a fleet-wide thing, not just 1 or 2 mobiles...

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:17 pm

Thank you KuhnElectronics

Have you opened up a case with Motorola on it? If not, please do and let me know what they say.

I can PM you the details.

STicKman · Post by **STicKman** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 2:26 pm

Our department has been having the same issue since upgrading to R05.05.17 back in August. Is Motorola aware of this issue?

KuhnElectronics · Post by **KuhnElectronics** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:04 pm

i have not opened a case with moto...

i was going to look into it further...but got busy with other things....

but yea, pm me the details...

ve3nsv · Post by **ve3nsv** » Mon Oct 16, 2006 4:38 pm

It is too bad Motorola can't add the start up channel feature in the Personality Zone like they do in their lower end Commercial Series mobile radios like the PM400. If you think it is a pain in the a$$ to reprogram a radio to make it start up on the proper conventional channel, it is twice the hassle on a Passport system.

Batwings21 · Post by **Batwings21** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 5:01 pm

Makes me miss the m1225, and if you open a case, they are going to tell you to change the way your trucks are wired. As for getting them to rewrite the firmware of the radio for a small group of there customers, you've got a better shot at being prom queen. they wil probably tell you to buy cm series, i think they work okay in your situation. The days of custom radios are over unless you've got big $$$

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 6:11 pm

Of course the CM series work. They identified it was an issue with the CM series. They knew it was an unacceptable functionality and came out with specific firmware to fix it. Here is a quote from the CM series firmware notes:

Radio power up state:
Only those mobiles with firmware R03.00.04 or R03.00.05 would not
power up in their previous state if power was abruptly removed from
the mobile. Mobiles with firmware R03.01.00 and later will power up in
their previous state in this situation.

Why is the CDM any different?

Vercomm · Post by **Vercomm** » Tue Oct 17, 2006 8:15 pm

Maybe something to try: Motorola released new firmare for the CDM series. Maybe you could try updating one radio in each of the fleets you are having issues with and see if it helps if so could be any easy fix. I would be very interested to hear back to see if the new firmware helped or not.

Professional Series Mobile Radio Firmware R05.05.19 (29 Sep 2006 Application 4MB)
Upgrade Kit. This firmware contains modifications to the Professional Series Mobile Radios.
Revision Number: R05.05.19
Product Applicability: CDM, CDM-LS, and CDM-LS+

If it doesn't I guess you'll have to scream in Moto's ear to get them going on a fix.

Jamie

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 4:56 am

Same issue with R05.05.19. We have tried this already, but thanks for the sugestion.

Motorola says that they will address the problem if they get enough complaints, so please report this issue if you are experiencing the issue.

jackhackett · Post by **jackhackett** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 5:18 am

Anybody know what problem R05.05.15 was supposed to fix?

This is my theory, which is mine, eh-hem.. and my theory is this... which is my theory, which is mine...
I would imagine that they changed the way the current channel is saved because it was being stored in flash ram instead of static ram with a cap for backup power. They were probably having a problem with the flash ram being written to too much (I've had quite a few come back from depot saying they'd replaced it) so they stopped it from writing to it every time the channel was changed.

edit:
And of course when I said flash ram you all know I really meant eeprom. I've got to stop posting before I'm fully awake.

Vercomm · Post by **Vercomm** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:46 am

These are the fixes from R05.05.15

I. Enhancements
None
II. Firmware Corrections
Item #1: CS EEPROM Error / HW EEPROM Error
After typical field operation, the radio may exhibit and indicate “CS EEPROM Error” or “HW EEPROM Error” on the display. Upon occurrence of this failure, the radio will no longer transmit or receive calls. This issue is solved with this new firmware release.

Item #2: Slow debounce of channel steering inputs In specific operating scenarios, the radio may incorrectly decode an undesired or unprogrammed channel when the radio is channel steered. The radio will indicate “Unprogrammed” or the undesired channel number on the display as well as generate an inhibit tone .
This issue is resolved with this new firmware release.

Item #3: Steered channel incorrectly saved on power off While the radio is channel steered, a power off via ignition sense will incorrectly save the steered channel. In this specific operating scenario, the radio is expected to save the last channel selected via the channel buttons. This issue is resolved with this new firmware release.
Professional Series
Mobile Firmware R05.05.15
Customer Release Notes
June 30, 2005 2

Item #4: Data Operated Squelch (DOS) does not mute MDC when “HUB defeats PL” is activated With “HUB defects PL” active, DOS does not mute MDC when the microphone is off the HUB. In this specific operating scenario, the radio is expected to mute receive audio upon detection of MDC.
This issue is resolved with this new firmware release.

Item #5: Autogroup scan does not suspend on microphone off-hook
In specific operating scenarios, the radio may not suspend autogroup scan
when the microphone is taken off the HUB and the radio is programmed for HUB suspends scan operation. This issue is resolved with this new firmware release.

Item #6: PROIS: Channel button events not reported correctly to option board In specific operating scenarios, the radio will report the incorrect button event or will not report any button event when the channel buttons of the radio are pressed.
This issue is resolved with this new firmware release.

III. Known Issues
Item #1: Priority scan does not operate correctly with “Off Hook suspends Nonpriority Scan”In specific operating scenarios, the radio will not scan detect priority 1 or priority 2 channel activity when the microphone is off the HUB and “Off Hook suspends Non-priority Scan” is active . The radio may also fail to revert to the selected channel after loss of carrier on the priority 1 or priority 2 channel.
This issue will be resolved in the next Professional Series Mobile Firmware
release.
MOTOROLA and the Stylized M Logo are registered in the U.S. Patent & Trademark Office.
All other product or service names are the property of their respective owners.
© Motorola, Inc. 2005.

celltech25 · Post by **celltech25** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 7:53 am

WE have found this to wrok for us

1. Turn truck on
2. Set radio to desired power up channel
3. Turn Radio off with switch on Radio
4. Turn Radio on with switch on radio
5. Turn Truck Off
6. Turn truck on should be on desired channel

Has worked on all the new cdm's we have recieved with the new firmware before this they would jsut pick a channel when they turned on

Vercomm · Post by **Vercomm** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 9:06 am

RFGuy, perhasp you could leave the contact info of the person you were speaking to at motorola and that way we can call and all the complaints go to one person. Sounds like Celltech25 is having the same problem. Like you say the more complaints we make the sooner we can get a fix.

celltech25 · Post by **celltech25** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:16 pm

We aren't having the issue anymore we jsut make sure we know what channel the customer wants the radio to power up on and go through the steps above after each install to verify operation, 35-40 installs later no complaints from customers about the channel issue since the first 2

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 12:57 pm

The new firmware (R05.0515) was to fix the dreaded CS EEPROM Error / HW EEPROM Error problem.
Motorola tells me the problem was a result of "constantly writing the channel information to memory.
Now they no longer write channel information to memory except on a soft power down (front power switch or ignition lead.

This is why if you change channel, power cycle with front power switch and then kill the power to the radio things are good (but we still have complaints of randon channels after power up).

How hard is it to change the software so that when you press the channel up butoon the radio 1) increments channel 2) writes channel info to memory.

jackhackett · Post by **jackhackett** » Wed Oct 18, 2006 6:41 pm

RFguy wrote:The new firmware (R05.0515) was to fix the dreaded CS EEPROM Error / HW EEPROM Error problem.
Motorola tells me the problem was a result of "constantly writing the channel information to memory.

How hard is it to change the software so that when you press the channel up butoon the radio 1) increments channel 2) writes channel info to memory.

Looks like you can only have it one way or the other and Moto picked fixing the eeprom error over retaining the channel on power loss. Moto corporate guy says "either we can pay to have the depot replace eeproms, or we can have the users change the channel... hmm.. which one will I pick?".
I'm guessing you're not going to get them to change it back, so when you get nowhere with tech support, inform them that you'll fix the problem by phasing out the CDMs in favor of TKs.

CDM series radio jumping channels on power down

CDM series radio jumping channels on power down

radio not saving right channel

CDM Problem