I know it has been covered before.. here it goes. I have Micor RF Tone control, PL enabled repeaters. Original problem was new local ham site causing repeater to key. Ham site tech determined his PA was very dirty. They are off air for a while...now I have good comms Mobile to Mobile, however my base control is having a lot of squelch at the beginning and end of TX.
Do I need to check Xmit freqs error with PL disabled? Has anyone used Communication Specialist, Inc programmable CTCSS encoder-decoders? My tone reed boards are are very, very old.
micor rptr problem
Moderator: Queue Moderator
Sounds like your control base and mobiles may not have a reverse-burst PL capability to mute the repeater receiver when unkeying, resulting in the squelch tail after every PTT.
http://www.connectsystems.com/public_ht ... /tp154.htm
---No---Do I need to check Xmit freqs error with PL disabled?
For a simple, reliable, programmable repeater control panel, here's a link:Has anyone used Communication Specialist, Inc programmable CTCSS encoder-decoders? My tone reed boards are are very, very old.
http://www.connectsystems.com/public_ht ... /tp154.htm
If you Micor is original factory PL, then you need the AND Squelch modification in the receiver Audio board and interconnet board. It IS in the manual.
The stock factory PL in the receiver will force the squelch to open way before the receiver accually quiets. That is why you need the AND mod.
AND Modification allows the receiver carrier squelch to be ANDed with the valid PL detect to open the audio path and the repeater PTT. Also it prevents the "squelch crash" by allowing the receiver squelch to close the audio path to the TX... the stock way keeps the squelch forced open till the PL detect goes away.
The stock factory PL in the receiver will force the squelch to open way before the receiver accually quiets. That is why you need the AND mod.
AND Modification allows the receiver carrier squelch to be ANDed with the valid PL detect to open the audio path and the repeater PTT. Also it prevents the "squelch crash" by allowing the receiver squelch to close the audio path to the TX... the stock way keeps the squelch forced open till the PL detect goes away.
My two bits worth:
Some of the jumpers that you need to set for "And Squelch" are located on the receiver interconnect board. Not easy to find if you don't know where to look.
The squelch control on the front panel is VERY critical, due to its mounting, as well as poor quality cause it to become dirty, and therefore intermittent.
Some of the jumpers that you need to set for "And Squelch" are located on the receiver interconnect board. Not easy to find if you don't know where to look.
The squelch control on the front panel is VERY critical, due to its mounting, as well as poor quality cause it to become dirty, and therefore intermittent.
Aloha, Bernie
Thanks for all of the help thus far....I have gone a little deeper and the base station has a 4 frequency control module and a F1-PL card also. After performing some testing I have the PL on all of the other 3 transmitter frequencies(which are working fine w/same antenna as faulty leg), however I only see the remote tone frequency on the repeater leg that is not operating properly. Is it possible for the repeater to receive any signal and transmit it if it sees no PL? Where is the tone remote decoded? I have not seen Micors before, I am familiar with Quantar wire line repeaters, and I need to learn the theory of operation for RF Tone remote repeaters. Thanks again for all of the responses so far.
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Dan562
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:30 pm
- What radios do you own?: Kenwood, Yaesu, ICOM, Motorola
Why do I have a strange feeling this Micor Base Station Repeater is some modified SP version? I think perhaps you should look at the full model number on the rear of the cabinet which will also have a 10 digit serial number, i.e. example: C64R_B31_6_T - SP_ _ _ and fill in what's left blank and provide the entire information to us.
While you're at it, take a look at the Unified (Printed Circuit Board) Backplane and note if there's additional (point to point) colored wiring and extra diodes added to the board. I'm guessing you have no service manuals for this station. The Standard Control & Application for the Micor Base and Repeater Stations Service Manual is # 68-81025E60. If you should happen to have a SP station then the manual number would start with # 001SSPxxx(APC)xxxxxx(SP Job Number).
I've never seen a Standard 4 Frequency Micor Base Station Repeater and I've worked on hundreds of Micors in the /\/\ Factory during the 1970s.
In the Unified Control Chassis, going from right to left you'll probably find the following modules (based on a Standard station):
Slot #01 2 or 4 Wire Line Driver
Slot #02 Station Control
Slot #03 No Module
Slot #04 Time Out Timer
Slot #05 F1-"PL"
Slot #06 Guard Tone Decoder
Slot #07 Squelch Gate
Slot #08 No Module
Slot #09 No Module (this is where the 4 Frequency Decoder inserts)
Slot #10 No Module (this is where the Wildcard inserts)
Slot #11 No Module (this is where the Single Tone Decoder inserts)
Slot #12 No Module (Spare also used for SP Module applications)
Remove Primary Power 121V AC and verify ALL modules and note if the modules contain any SP numbers on them.
The following 2 modules are used in a Base Station application not in a Repeater unless the original customer has requested a Bid & Quote for the station to have been SP modified in a certain configuration.
In Slot # 05 there should be a TLN5294 F1-"PL" Module
In Slot # 09 there should be a TLN5292 4 Frequency Control Module
You also mention RF (?) Tone Remote Control. Tone Remote Control TRC is a combination of HLGT 2175 Hz / FT 1950 Hz F1 / LLGT 2175 Hz which is no different than any other /\/\ Product including the Quantars. The signaling is sent between the Remote Console and the Base Station via Telco wire lines and decodes the HLGT/FT/LLGT on the Guard Tone Decoder module. The Tone PL (CTCSS) is routed through the receiver board to the TRN6007 Audio Squelch board and into the PL Decoder board. The Exciter and Tone PL (CTCSS) Encoder are mounted in the upper left hand corner of the Unified Chassis. So essentially, TRC and Tone PL (CTCSS) provide two different functions from separate locations within the stations.
Another interesting thing about your Post is, you're asking us, "How this station is suppose work?"
This is a question I would have to ask the customer. Like, "What are the 4 individuals frequencies used for or in what special application?" Perhaps you could be chasing a "Ghost" problem or complaint that the customer has had from day one or whenever the 4 Frequency module was installed. I don't think many people on this board could determine exactly why the station is configured the way it is.
Please provide what the station contains (noted in the text above) and how the customer thinks 4 Frequency Repeater should functionally work.
Carnac
While you're at it, take a look at the Unified (Printed Circuit Board) Backplane and note if there's additional (point to point) colored wiring and extra diodes added to the board. I'm guessing you have no service manuals for this station. The Standard Control & Application for the Micor Base and Repeater Stations Service Manual is # 68-81025E60. If you should happen to have a SP station then the manual number would start with # 001SSPxxx(APC)xxxxxx(SP Job Number).
I've never seen a Standard 4 Frequency Micor Base Station Repeater and I've worked on hundreds of Micors in the /\/\ Factory during the 1970s.
In the Unified Control Chassis, going from right to left you'll probably find the following modules (based on a Standard station):
Slot #01 2 or 4 Wire Line Driver
Slot #02 Station Control
Slot #03 No Module
Slot #04 Time Out Timer
Slot #05 F1-"PL"
Slot #06 Guard Tone Decoder
Slot #07 Squelch Gate
Slot #08 No Module
Slot #09 No Module (this is where the 4 Frequency Decoder inserts)
Slot #10 No Module (this is where the Wildcard inserts)
Slot #11 No Module (this is where the Single Tone Decoder inserts)
Slot #12 No Module (Spare also used for SP Module applications)
Remove Primary Power 121V AC and verify ALL modules and note if the modules contain any SP numbers on them.
The following 2 modules are used in a Base Station application not in a Repeater unless the original customer has requested a Bid & Quote for the station to have been SP modified in a certain configuration.
In Slot # 05 there should be a TLN5294 F1-"PL" Module
In Slot # 09 there should be a TLN5292 4 Frequency Control Module
You also mention RF (?) Tone Remote Control. Tone Remote Control TRC is a combination of HLGT 2175 Hz / FT 1950 Hz F1 / LLGT 2175 Hz which is no different than any other /\/\ Product including the Quantars. The signaling is sent between the Remote Console and the Base Station via Telco wire lines and decodes the HLGT/FT/LLGT on the Guard Tone Decoder module. The Tone PL (CTCSS) is routed through the receiver board to the TRN6007 Audio Squelch board and into the PL Decoder board. The Exciter and Tone PL (CTCSS) Encoder are mounted in the upper left hand corner of the Unified Chassis. So essentially, TRC and Tone PL (CTCSS) provide two different functions from separate locations within the stations.
Another interesting thing about your Post is, you're asking us, "How this station is suppose work?"
This is a question I would have to ask the customer. Like, "What are the 4 individuals frequencies used for or in what special application?" Perhaps you could be chasing a "Ghost" problem or complaint that the customer has had from day one or whenever the 4 Frequency module was installed. I don't think many people on this board could determine exactly why the station is configured the way it is.Please provide what the station contains (noted in the text above) and how the customer thinks 4 Frequency Repeater should functionally work.
Carnac
I have been out in the snow repairing on a real repeater today.
(msf 5000)
The model # of the unit in question is: C53RCB-3196D-SP325
I do not have access to the base today however I do have pictures and the modules are as follows: slot #1 Line driver
slot #2 station control
slot #5 F1-PL
slot #9 four frquency cntrl
I have one manual that has many pages missing: Part#68p81013e65-k
I will check the P/N of the modules tomorrow.
As far as operational theory...I have three repeaters that it hits and one local frequency.
Thanks for all of the help.
(msf 5000)
The model # of the unit in question is: C53RCB-3196D-SP325
I do not have access to the base today however I do have pictures and the modules are as follows: slot #1 Line driver
slot #2 station control
slot #5 F1-PL
slot #9 four frquency cntrl
I have one manual that has many pages missing: Part#68p81013e65-k
I will check the P/N of the modules tomorrow.
As far as operational theory...I have three repeaters that it hits and one local frequency.
Thanks for all of the help.
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Dan562
- Posts: 533
- Joined: Mon Aug 23, 2004 7:30 pm
- What radios do you own?: Kenwood, Yaesu, ICOM, Motorola
SP Micor RF Control Base Station
First of all you are dealing with a /\/\ Speciality Products Modified Micor Base Station not a repeater station. This station is some type of a RF Control Base that's Remotely situated in a penthouse on a building.
C Compa
5 50 Watts
3 VHF High Band probably 150.8 MHz to 162 MHz Range
R
C Continous Duty
B
3 Tone PL (CTCSS)
1 Only 1 PL Frequency Encode / Decode
9 Not sure but we all know it's a Multiple RF Channel station
6 TRC Remote Keying, RF Channel Selection and PL Disable on receive
D Standard Product Group Revision
And this is part of the key issue to this station, the SP325 which the /\/\ Micor Product Group had a special Bid & Quote / Price Book that provided the SP Options and a general description how they worked in these stations.
Hers's the bad news, when the /\/\ Micor Standard and SP Product Groups were disbanded in 1992, most of the special documentation was tossed in the garbage by 2002. Unless you've got the SP manual that was shipped with this station, it's going to be a long drawn out process to determine what and how this station is suppose to function. Unless some long time BatLab technical people have worked on this type of /\/\ Micor Base Station Product.
Include any or all photos of the modules and wiring on the station's Backplane so we can possibly help determine what the SP does.
C Compa
5 50 Watts
3 VHF High Band probably 150.8 MHz to 162 MHz Range
R
C Continous Duty
B
3 Tone PL (CTCSS)
1 Only 1 PL Frequency Encode / Decode
9 Not sure but we all know it's a Multiple RF Channel station
6 TRC Remote Keying, RF Channel Selection and PL Disable on receive
D Standard Product Group Revision
And this is part of the key issue to this station, the SP325 which the /\/\ Micor Product Group had a special Bid & Quote / Price Book that provided the SP Options and a general description how they worked in these stations.
Hers's the bad news, when the /\/\ Micor Standard and SP Product Groups were disbanded in 1992, most of the special documentation was tossed in the garbage by 2002. Unless you've got the SP manual that was shipped with this station, it's going to be a long drawn out process to determine what and how this station is suppose to function. Unless some long time BatLab technical people have worked on this type of /\/\ Micor Base Station Product.
Include any or all photos of the modules and wiring on the station's Backplane so we can possibly help determine what the SP does.
Dan562: "... most of the special documentation was tossed in the garbage ..."
-----------------------------------------
Well, not all of it anyway:
BASE STATION CUSTOM PRODUCTS
Custom Feature - Product Code 301
Micor Base Station
T4 Version
The tone remote control four frequency transmit only station deletes R4 receiver, deletes 4 receiver channel elements, and deletes antenna relay from standard T4-R4 model.
Order using suffix SP325
Delete $635.00 from standard model price of T4-R4 station.
Instruction manual part number for VHF - 1S-SP3011641
-----------------------------------------------------------
Now, since the original post said there was this problem: "... my base control is having a lot of squelch at the beginning and end of TX. ..."
And - since the station left the factory with no receiver - this suggest that along the way someone installed a receiver and tried to reset the station configuration to a standard model - and missed in some way - probably incorrect jumper configuration is responsible for the noted symptom.
-----------------------------------------
Well, not all of it anyway:
BASE STATION CUSTOM PRODUCTS
Custom Feature - Product Code 301
Micor Base Station
T4 Version
The tone remote control four frequency transmit only station deletes R4 receiver, deletes 4 receiver channel elements, and deletes antenna relay from standard T4-R4 model.
Order using suffix SP325
Delete $635.00 from standard model price of T4-R4 station.
Instruction manual part number for VHF - 1S-SP3011641
-----------------------------------------------------------
Now, since the original post said there was this problem: "... my base control is having a lot of squelch at the beginning and end of TX. ..."
And - since the station left the factory with no receiver - this suggest that along the way someone installed a receiver and tried to reset the station configuration to a standard model - and missed in some way - probably incorrect jumper configuration is responsible for the noted symptom.