New MDC system questions

samwise · Post by **samwise** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 6:57 am

Hi All,

Just looking for some insight on MDC systems.

I am in the process of getting bids for a MDC system and am looking for info on equiment and software.

Specifically...

Equipment
User - Manufacturer, Reliability
Infrastructure - Manufacturer, Reliability

Software - Manufacturer, Support, Statistics, Management, Troubleshooting

If you have a MDC system, let me know what equipment and software you have and how reliable it is.

I will appreciate your input.

Sam

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:26 pm

What do you mean by "MDC" system?

HLA · Post by **HLA** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 4:57 pm

what exactly are you trying to do? are you looking for a console or something that will decode or portables that can encode and/or decode? any other info you can give us will let us be more helpful to you. and of course we will probablly direct you to morotola since this is a motorola forum.

crazyboy · Post by **crazyboy** » Wed Jan 03, 2007 5:20 pm

I think he may be talking about mobile data computers. If not I apologize.

Post by Pj » Wed Jan 03, 2007 8:43 pm

My guess would be a data system.

What is your ultimate goal?
What are your covarage requirements?
How many users?
Simple inquires or large bandwidth transfers?
What is your current two-way voice infrastruture?
What is your budget?

Keep in mind that most MDT based systems are far and few, and limited to the larger cities. Many "statewide" or "regional systems" are celluar based and usually only provide basic inquries and not nessearly large data transfer requests (but IS getting there depending on provider).

If your going for a true "mobile" computer, figure at least 3K just for the computer, if not more (Panasonic Toughbooks, Motorola ML900 - MW800, Data911, etc). Then add the costs of equipment mounts, cell modem or data modem, installation, antenna's, training, etc.

samwise · Post by **samwise** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:06 am

Hmmm, MDC = Mobile Data Computer.

I was just looking for some insight on different manufacturer's equipment. We are having to buy infrastructure and user equipment and I get to maintain all that, so I am going to put my 2 cents on the reliable equipment ('cause it is all about me, ya know!). I was just looking for some "experience" I could learn from.

Thanks all,

Sam

RFguy · Post by **RFguy** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 6:18 am

Hmmm, MDC = Mobile Data Computer

Hmmmm, On a Motorola board MDC is normally MDC600/MDC1200 signalling.

Again, it would help to answer some of the questions than have been posted above.

Post by **xmo** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 7:39 am

Motorola's Astro25 High Performance Data system is about the fastest thing around for dedicated systems [you own it as opposed to relying on a carrier for coverage]

The system provides a 96,000 BPS rate over a single conventional 25 KHz bandwidth radio channel at 800 or 700 MHz. When the standards are finalized, this system is supposed to be upgradeable to much higher speed through bandwidth aggregation as tested in the Greenhouse demo project [Pinelas County, FL]

The HPD is part of Motorola's Astro25 family of integraded voice and data solutions [IVD/Smartzone 7x]

There is a possibility that Motorola will be offering a promotional configuration of this system through their indirect [dealer] network. This will be called HPD Lite and will be a package consisting of a controller, a certain number of base stations, and a certain number of HPD modems all staged, pre-tested and offered at a special price. Check with your local dealer for details.

samwise · Post by **samwise** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:00 am

Well, without getting into too many particulars, we are building a MDC system for Public Safety. There will be all sorts of data flying through the air. So I guess the answer yall are looking for is I need a really big pipe to push large quantities of data through at a high rate to a lot of end users.

But that is getting away from the spirit of why I posted in the first place. There are consultants and engineers telling us all the possibilities, and I really don't want to get into the specifics here until the bid/bids have been awarded.

What I am really looking for is...

Does anybody have any Panasonic/IBM/Dell/XYZ model MDT's out there that they would recommend or not.

Does anybody use Motorola/Data Radio/XYZ infrastructure out there that they would recommend or not.

Does anybody use any software to interface the "main" network to their MDC network that they would recommend or not.

I apologize if this is the wrong forum/place to be asking these questions, if so, let me know.

Thanks for your time and interest in this matter.

Sam

HLA · Post by **HLA** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 9:11 am

aaahhh we call them MDT (mobile data terminals) then you don't get confused.

samwise · Post by **samwise** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 10:52 am

I agree, I have called them MDT's since they first came out, but now the engineers say to call them MDC's 'cause they are actually computers not terminals. I personaly think they do this to charge more money! And try to confuse me.

Conundrum · Post by **Conundrum** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 1:09 pm

I have always called them MWS or Mobile Workstations... anywho, depending on what you want you can use almost any laptop, but if its for an emergency service, I'd suggest going with something like a Toughbook CF-29 or a Motorola Computer system. they are both really durable and stand up to tons of abuse.

for the system end of it, it all depends on what features, in some areas I know they use pretty much a cellphone hooked to the computer for mobile data, and other agencies use the radio network they are on, there are many options, the best thing to do depending on your budget is to put out requests for bids and see who bites.

But I would suggest reading what PJ said.

Post by **wavetar** » Thu Jan 04, 2007 3:16 pm

samwise wrote: So I guess the answer yall are looking for is I need a really big pipe to push large quantities of data through at a high rate to a lot of end users.

Sounds like a candidate for MotoMesh to me:

http://www.incam.co.uk/ds/motomesh/Syst ... ochure.pdf

http://mrtmag.com/mag/radio_motomesh_no ... index.html

Mobile broadband, pass all your data through it, even vehicle video...although, the stuff is pricey...You can use any laptop with a Motomesh PCMCIA wireless card, or the Motorola Mobile Workstations (MW800, 850) can have it built-in.

Todd

Post by Pj » Thu Jan 04, 2007 4:02 pm

Although you don't want to be specific, you kind of have to be...(kill your location in the profile and be anon for now

)

Are these just going to be in police cars, fire trucks, public works vehicles?

All of the above, a couple, etc...

Certain computers will work great in some applications while sucking at another.

Personally, I think the "moblie computers" such as the Motorola MW-800 work stations work very well in patrol vehicles, but are not as fun to install or use in a fire truck. There a normal laptop would work well.

For the best of both worlds, there is the toughbook with the PDRC. If you want to buy the same basic laptop for EVERYBODY, but have an option of installing or using them "standalone" you can do that. If you want to have a little better setup for patrol vehicles, you can get their PDRC setup.

This turns this:

into this:

The PDRC allows you to mount the laptop in the trunk or other location and gives you a remote monitor and keyboard, etc. If you need to swap out or service the laptop you can swap in another.

http://catalog2.panasonic.com/webapp/wc ... hbook-PDRC

radio-link · Post by **radio-link** » Sat Jan 06, 2007 9:35 am

wavetar wrote: Sounds like a candidate for MotoMesh to me:

http://www.incam.co.uk/ds/motomesh/Syst ... ochure.pdf

http://mrtmag.com/mag/radio_motomesh_no ... index.html

Todd

Wow, 2.4 and 5 GHz...I think this is nothing to cover an area, just for the scene of an incident...

Post by **wavetar** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:18 am

radio-link wrote:
wavetar wrote: Sounds like a candidate for MotoMesh to me:

http://www.incam.co.uk/ds/motomesh/Syst ... ochure.pdf

http://mrtmag.com/mag/radio_motomesh_no ... index.html

Todd
Wow, 2.4 and 5 GHz...I think this is nothing to cover an area, just for the scene of an incident...

\

Read the info in the links I provided...it is a complete mobile system with nodes located throughout the municipality to give a "mesh net" of high-speed data coverage. It can be as small or large of an area as your heart (but mainly what your wallet can handle) desires.

Todd

radio-link · Post by **radio-link** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:23 am

wavetar wrote: Read the info in the links I provided...it is a complete mobile system with nodes located throughout the municipality to give a "mesh net" of high-speed data coverage. It can be as small or large of an area as your heart (but mainly what your wallet can handle) desires.

Todd

I have had a look at the links, but I only could find the reference to 2.4 and 5GHz, and this can only offer a real coverage when every few hundred m a node is placed - even then it is hard to achieve in-house coverage this way. For rural areas it is unusable at all - who installs a node every km in the middle of nowhere?!

Post by **wavetar** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:37 am

radio-link wrote:
wavetar wrote: Read the info in the links I provided...it is a complete mobile system with nodes located throughout the municipality to give a "mesh net" of high-speed data coverage. It can be as small or large of an area as your heart (but mainly what your wallet can handle) desires.

Todd
I have had a look at the links, but I only could find the reference to 2.4 and 5GHz, and this can only offer a real coverage when every few hundred m a node is placed - even then it is hard to achieve in-house coverage this way. For rural areas it is unusable at all - who installs a node every km in the middle of nowhere?!

You're missing a very big piece of the puzzle...every computer used within the system also acts as a node! This means every car with a laptop acts as a router point, along with any 'hard installed' nodes as well. If the municipality has a large fleet of vehicles that are outfitted with Motomesh capable laptops, you will almost always have a node within reach. If you have a major incident outside of town where there are no installed nodes, you can simply park a car every x-number of kilometers between the incident & the nearest installed node, and your broadband network is good to go! This technology was developed by the U.S. armed forces with the intention of having a very robust mobile broadband network which could "self heal" if one of the nodes was "taken out".

Todd

radio-link · Post by **radio-link** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:40 am

[quote="wavetar]
You're missing a very big piece of the puzzle...every computer used within the system also acts as a node! This means every car with a laptop acts as a router point, along with any 'hard installed' nodes as well. If the municipality has a large fleet of vehicles that are outfitted with Motomesh capable laptops, you will almost always have a node within reach. If you have a major incident outside of town where there are no installed nodes, you can simply park a car every x-number of kilometers between the incident & the nearest installed node, and your broadband network is good to go! This technology was developed by the U.S. armed forces with the intention of having a very robust mobile broadband network which could "self heal" if one of the nodes was "taken out".

Todd[/quote]

I did not miss it, I even have some experience with self organizing systems in the 2.4GHz band, and it appears to be as I already have mentioned - it only works with very high density of nodes, and then not with the speed one would expect, because the high density of nodes means high traffic, and they all share the same bandwidth. I like the idea for the scene of an incident, but for daily use it look almost useless to me.

Post by **wavetar** » Sun Jan 07, 2007 6:54 am

Well, the bandwidth is a lot higher than anything else I've seen in a wide-area coverage wireless data system. I agree it's not the answer for rural areas, as you mentioned. However, it's a real option for small/medium sized cities. It's infrastucture intense, but when you look at the fact many cities are installing 802.11g access points all over the place to offer high-speed internet access to the public, it's not a huge step to facilitate a Motomesh system as well.

Todd