Moving from Analog to Digital, in need of some advice

[contrak10]

I volunteer for rescue/ambulance department. Here in northern NJ, everything is analog and crowded. If any area needs a radio system upgrade its this one. We have no repeaters for our own use due to frequency crowding, we are stuck piggy-backing on another towns and during major incidents/storms what ever getting information across to another unit is almost impossible.

Getting a UHF or VHF frequency approved for repeater operation up here is next to impossible or so im told by a communications sales person in our area.

Im not sure about 800mhz band as very few departments in my area use this band.

Im looking in the long term view of what could do to better improve our communication needs as our role is expanding. Im also hoping to make our department P25 ready in the future. Im not sure if there are digital radios that can also do conventional analog. Cost is a factor also, spending more then $1200.00 on a single radio is going to be rough die to our budget size.

Im looking on some advice on what I could do to both help our communication needs and what radios i should be looking into.

We are curently using HT1250's and a few old VX-500 VX-510.

Our frequencies are mostly VHF and our repeated tactical channel on UHF, but shared with other towns.

[486dx4]

You said that frequency coordination was impossible but out of curiousity have you looked into getting frequencies in the EMRS (Emergency Medical Radio Service)? Part 90 talks about this service that is specifically for EMS agencies. Frequencies that I know of are in the 453 Mhz region (and may be elsewhere - not sure on that) In NY the coordinator for these frequencies is the NYS Dept of Health. You have to go through them to get a coordinated frequency pair and if they approve things you then go to the FCC to get your license. I would gather in NJ you would go to the Dept of Health to inquire about it.

[contrak10]

Im not exactly sure, we dont have any frequencies that are legally owned by us. We use shared frequencies. Our dispatch center contracts a local radio shop to do all FCC registrations and renewals. I was told not to bother paying for a application due to lack of frequencies in UHF and VHF.

NJ has strange ways of assigning frequencies for ocal agencies. I dont think that our state Health and Human Services actually assigns frequencies. There are some state wide frequencies that all EMS agencies must have in their banks. For example SPEN 1-4 which are statewide, but for the most part do not regulate anything when it comes to radios.

[486dx4]

As far as local radio shops go I have been told that most of them don't even know what EMRS is let alone how you can get licensed for that service. But things may be different in NJ - maybe your statewide channels 1-4 are those 453/458 Mhz pairs for all units to use where here agencies get a pair and its coordinated much like other services. There is a contact at NYS DOH to talk to about this. I came across a PDF file from NJ State Department of Health and Senior Services / Office of Emergency Medical Services that briefly discusses EMRS but no info on licensing, etc. Maybe the licensing/coordination in NJ does not work as it does in NY and that's it....

[N4DES]

Regardless of whether you are frequencies available, do you have the funds required to purchase a repeater and place it into operation at a tower site that may come with monthly lease fees? If the answer is no, then the rest is moot. If you do have the funds then it would be best to contact APCO and get the official word from them instead of listening to a local communications shop. They have no idea as to what is available and do not have the tools to research it.

APCO will want to know the location of the repeater (Lat/Long) so yuo will need to locate a site and an approximate height of the repeater antenna before they will do the search, so there is some homework that you need to do before contactions them.

[alex]

It sounds like they could benefit from their own simplex frequency - repeater being ideal - but they just seem to need something to communicate on...

I don't know what county in NJ you are in, but if your near NYC - your right - it's harder than hard to get something coordinated..

A number of Bergen County agencies are going to uhf trunking, by combining their already licensed frequencies together. However, there's a lot of $$$$ in Bergen, so that explains how they are able to pull that off. I don't know where the project stands, but word is they are starting to eat up 500mhz frequencies in the area, after signing an interference (Cable company maybe?) waiver with the FCC. You may want to talk to some of those guys and see what they have to say).

If your a small volunteer ambulance agency in NJ, attend a First Aid Council meeting (this is the DOH for NJ Volunteers.... don't get me started on these guys) and ask the group there how to do it, or if there is knowledge that you can gleem from another member of their department to get you setup.

Ask around and see what people say...

[contrak10]

We are located in Northwest Bergen County so you hit the nail on the head regarding the overcrowding problem.

We do have our own simplex frequency but its terrible, we are limited to 20 watts of transmit power due to interference issues with a neighboring town on the same frequency but using a different Pl. Our town also as hills, so it doesnt go far at all. Its good when all units are in one place but anything else is no good. We can only use it as a fireground channel.

Our police department on the other hand has a old school but very well built radio system. A series of repeaters with voters make the police channel, which is shared by 2 police departments heard as far away as new york state. Most of the towns radio antennas and repeaters are located on top of a water tower and connected to the dispatch center using Verizon tie lines. Everything is analog however and no one seems to want to make a change to digital or even being APCO compliant.

Any opinions of giving 800mhz a try?
Any opinions on what radios we should invest in?

I believe our county police has moved to a non-trunking UHF system that is somewhat digital. Only the swat and detective channels are encrypted i believe.

Our EMS service is part paid part volunteer so we dont usually deal with the First Aid Council.

[escomm]

You may also want to consider 700MHz, there should be some PS licenses available in the next couple years, if they are not available already. I would look long and hard at the capital and ongoing maintenance costs of digital, in the long run they are many times more expensive to keep up and running. You can give yourself a good yardstick by assuming that you can buy 4 to 5 new analog portables for every new digital portable you buy, and 6 to 10 new analog repeaters for every new digital repeater you buy.

[nmfire10]

Why do you want P25? You are gaining ABSOLUTELY NOTHING by making a single conventional analog voice channel into P25. It is simply a waste of money.

[Nexrad16]

If you're going to be digital and your a firefighter you can forget about intelligibility during PASS or vibra-alert (SCBA) activation. The vocoder will not be able to process noise vs speech. If you go to IAFC and look at their P25 info you can read all about some of the findings relating to digial tech.

Good Luck!