It seems many cannot obtain the CPS software, or a new enough version, to program radios we own. The engineer in me wonders if there is an alternative to using the uber-controlled and viciously copyright enforced Motorola version. How hard can this be? I am not looking to change flash features, not looking to do trunking tricks, just the regular channel (mode) programming. Surely it is possible to write a program to read out a radio's data, decode it, edit it, re-encode it and write it back to the radio? Has anyone done this? Has anyone analyzed the data? Heck, if I had the info (obviously I can't monitor what happens between computer and radio if I don't have the software) I could even begin writing a Windows program myself.
What does the community know about this? An open-source program that is reverse engineered would be legal and modules could be added for all the different radios that Motorola is going to abandon when they stop selling the RSS for them.
Peter
Alternative programming software?
Moderator: Queue Moderator
Re: Alternative programming software?
Well first off, any radio that can be programmed via CPS, currently has a version of CPS available for purchase through Motorola (possibly with the exception of the Pro/Waris CPS, though I seem to remember hearing that they'd done away with the special license for that package). All you have to do is to sign the software licensing agreement (done online via MOL these days, fast and easy), and then plop down cash for each package you want, and you've got a 3 year subscription.
Having said that, do I think Motorola would care if someone reverse engineered NLA RSS? Probably not. Would they care if someone did the same with current production CPS? Oh, you betcha. One would have to make damned well sure that their RE process and people involved was absolutely watertight, and Motorola's software licensing agreement may preclude that (either you let someone not licensed have access to the software which means you're in violation of the EULA, or they are licensed to have access to the software but precluded from RE'ing by the EULA).
The other thing you have to consider is how firmware relates to each CPS revision, especially for the high tier products. The classic Motorola "codeplug too new" error has been a mix in part of planned obsolescence and software/firmware engineering - e.g. new firmware or new features in CPS require changes in the structure of the codeplug that older versions of the software will not understand. Keeping track of those changes (and some can be very subtle), etc, would be a full time job, and you'd have to ask yourself, honestly, is it worth it?
Going back to RSS, especially NLA stuff, there's been talk of RE'ing or even doing custom from-scratch RSS/firmware packages on some of the older radios (the x9000 comes to mind, I think MikeB was contemplating something along those lines at one point). Since you don't have to content with current production software/firmware releases from Motorola, and the radios aren't even being actively sold anymore, you might have less of a headache.
As always, YMMV, IANAL, WTF, BBQ, ETC.
Having said that, do I think Motorola would care if someone reverse engineered NLA RSS? Probably not. Would they care if someone did the same with current production CPS? Oh, you betcha. One would have to make damned well sure that their RE process and people involved was absolutely watertight, and Motorola's software licensing agreement may preclude that (either you let someone not licensed have access to the software which means you're in violation of the EULA, or they are licensed to have access to the software but precluded from RE'ing by the EULA).
The other thing you have to consider is how firmware relates to each CPS revision, especially for the high tier products. The classic Motorola "codeplug too new" error has been a mix in part of planned obsolescence and software/firmware engineering - e.g. new firmware or new features in CPS require changes in the structure of the codeplug that older versions of the software will not understand. Keeping track of those changes (and some can be very subtle), etc, would be a full time job, and you'd have to ask yourself, honestly, is it worth it?
Going back to RSS, especially NLA stuff, there's been talk of RE'ing or even doing custom from-scratch RSS/firmware packages on some of the older radios (the x9000 comes to mind, I think MikeB was contemplating something along those lines at one point). Since you don't have to content with current production software/firmware releases from Motorola, and the radios aren't even being actively sold anymore, you might have less of a headache.
As always, YMMV, IANAL, WTF, BBQ, ETC.
Re: Alternative programming software?
I base my model on my observations of Microsoft's Office product. Each revision of each component (Word, Excel, etc) changes the file format, sometimes in subtle ways and the formats are proprietary with the most airtight EULAs their team of lawyers can write (especially regarding reverse engineering or decompiling). Yet, there are compatible programs such as Open Office which work remarkably well. Are they perfect? No, not always, and I wouldn't expect an open source clone of CPS to be perfect either. A real radio shop, or someone programming for a business-critical need, should purchase the proper tool from Motorola. However, for hobbyists and less critical needs, and bear in mind these are the people who are EXTREMELY unlikely to buy from Motorola anyway, an open source tool which achieves 95% of the functionality would be great. Motorola is highly unlikely to lose any income over this, especially since the project would be tilted towards the older radios in their line, many of which are no longer manufactured. As for radio shops, all they would lose is the few hams who had the money and didn't have al illegal copy of some RSS, and I suspect that is small. There are laws governing reverse engineering and when it is allowed and these also butt up against the antitrust laws. Development would have to be done in specific ways, for example the actual data capture between a radio and the CPS/RSS might have to be done in a different country (and publicly disclosed) than a more widespread development effort. Would Motorola initiate nuisance litigation to stop an effort which would have little if any effect on their bottom line? That is hard to know but if the i's are dotted and the t's crossed from the beginning it could very well prevent that.
I consider myself just an average software guy (my background is hardware and systems) but I would go even deeper and decompile actual radio code. You bet China has done this and I have heard of Chinese clones of Motorola radios (the idea disgusts me). Custom firmware ("flashcode") could breathe new life into older radios, although my open source idea is really about simple channel programming more than this. As for possible subtelties, a good program would always immediately read and save the radio codeplug data without even asking, allowing for a restore to original.
There is a benefit to Motorola to widespread use of its products, even if programmed against their wishes to protect their authorized shop business model (the same is true of Microsoft, they have benefitted from millions of illegal users in Asia, in schools, and everywhere). I have used the new Johnsons and am just appalled; I blame Motorola for dropping the ball, they should have that market, and I believe that part of it is their counterproductive effort to be overly tight with programming and support of their equipment instead of concentrating on developing good products.
I consider myself just an average software guy (my background is hardware and systems) but I would go even deeper and decompile actual radio code. You bet China has done this and I have heard of Chinese clones of Motorola radios (the idea disgusts me). Custom firmware ("flashcode") could breathe new life into older radios, although my open source idea is really about simple channel programming more than this. As for possible subtelties, a good program would always immediately read and save the radio codeplug data without even asking, allowing for a restore to original.
There is a benefit to Motorola to widespread use of its products, even if programmed against their wishes to protect their authorized shop business model (the same is true of Microsoft, they have benefitted from millions of illegal users in Asia, in schools, and everywhere). I have used the new Johnsons and am just appalled; I blame Motorola for dropping the ball, they should have that market, and I believe that part of it is their counterproductive effort to be overly tight with programming and support of their equipment instead of concentrating on developing good products.
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twowaytekk
- Posts: 219
- Joined: Sat Feb 23, 2002 4:00 pm
Re: Alternative programming software?
It does appear Motorola has done away with the CPS software license. It is no longer a new license agreemenmt option for me in MOL, and the CPS software for the HT1250 series is now an option for me to "purchase."
Mark
Mark
Re: Alternative programming software?
Interesting, but there seems to be a pretty high barrier to entry into MOL now. Here is the email I received after I filled out the online form to get a MOL account:
FR: C41157
Thank you for your interest in Motorola Online. In order to be granted online access, you must have an established account number with Motorola. If you already have a 10-digit account number or wish to proceed with the account setup process, please "REPLY" to this message or call Customer Service directly at 800-814-0601 ext. 6260 with your answers to the following questionnaire:
1) Do you have a 10-digit customer account number with Motorola? If so, what is that number?
2) Briefly describe what you are looking to acquire from Motorola Online?
3) Are you an End User or Reseller of Motorola products?
4) Is your Business TAXABLE or TAX EXEMPT?
5) Are you purchasing Software? If yes, please list radio(s)?
6) Do you work (or contract) for the US Federal Government?
7) Are you a State and Local entity?
Are you a Non Profit entity?
9) If for business use, what is your organization¿s legal name? (for personal use please provide the name you would like to reference on the account)
10) What is your organization¿s Shipping Address for online orders? (must be a physical address)
11) What is your organization¿s Billing Address for online orders?
12) What is your organization¿s fax number?
13) Please provide your organization¿s Nextel Agent Code and/or Cellular Shop ID (if applicable).
If your response is not received, your request will be closed.
We appreciate your time in processing this request.
Motorola Online Support
This is not the response of a company that wants customers and I don't want to make a federal project out of buying some software. For reasons I can't go into here I cannot use a civilian radio shop to program the radios I run into. I wanted to start a trend toward M rigs and away from J in this org but M is making that mighty hard. Since it appears M is not going to change and simply let my buy their software, and it is not just "floating around the net," I jump to what what all engineers do, consider rolling my own. I have a protocol analyzer and will find a setup at some point to analyze but it would be great to turn this into a more generic setup with the capability to have one program (with one standardized UI) handle many different kinds of radios and I would love to have more interested people on it before it "goes public" on Sourceforge.
FR: C41157
Thank you for your interest in Motorola Online. In order to be granted online access, you must have an established account number with Motorola. If you already have a 10-digit account number or wish to proceed with the account setup process, please "REPLY" to this message or call Customer Service directly at 800-814-0601 ext. 6260 with your answers to the following questionnaire:
1) Do you have a 10-digit customer account number with Motorola? If so, what is that number?
2) Briefly describe what you are looking to acquire from Motorola Online?
3) Are you an End User or Reseller of Motorola products?
4) Is your Business TAXABLE or TAX EXEMPT?
5) Are you purchasing Software? If yes, please list radio(s)?
6) Do you work (or contract) for the US Federal Government?
7) Are you a State and Local entity?
Are you a Non Profit entity?9) If for business use, what is your organization¿s legal name? (for personal use please provide the name you would like to reference on the account)
10) What is your organization¿s Shipping Address for online orders? (must be a physical address)
11) What is your organization¿s Billing Address for online orders?
12) What is your organization¿s fax number?
13) Please provide your organization¿s Nextel Agent Code and/or Cellular Shop ID (if applicable).
If your response is not received, your request will be closed.
We appreciate your time in processing this request.
Motorola Online Support
This is not the response of a company that wants customers and I don't want to make a federal project out of buying some software. For reasons I can't go into here I cannot use a civilian radio shop to program the radios I run into. I wanted to start a trend toward M rigs and away from J in this org but M is making that mighty hard. Since it appears M is not going to change and simply let my buy their software, and it is not just "floating around the net," I jump to what what all engineers do, consider rolling my own. I have a protocol analyzer and will find a setup at some point to analyze but it would be great to turn this into a more generic setup with the capability to have one program (with one standardized UI) handle many different kinds of radios and I would love to have more interested people on it before it "goes public" on Sourceforge.