We are a state university public safety / campus security department operating 50+ portables and a phone patch on our repeater. We are planning on moving our MSF5000 repeater from its current roof top site to another building that will have better coverage on campus and has automatic generator backup.
We have thought of replacing it for several reasons and just received a quote from our dealer.
I have asked for quotes on a MTR2000. They seem to REALLY be pushing mototrbo. The Mototrbo, with 100W amp, is substantially less expensive than the MTR2000 but they claim it is “very heavy duty, digital, IP based, 2 time slots, and so on and will be around when the MTR is obsolete”
We have no plans on going digital anytime soon as we just added several new ht1250s to our fleet and switched over to the impress battery system. Besides, if we do go digital, it will most likely be on the state 800 P25 system.
I am just curious to hear some opinions on this. If they are comparable in performance, I have no problems with the Mototrbo, but I just haven’t heard much about it. My impression is that the MTR is more of a public safety station, while the mototrbo is geared more towards commercial use. But I haven’t used or seen them and have heard very little.
MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
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transistor747
- Batboard $upporter
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Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
I've been weighing exactly these choices in a quote to a customer.
Below are my thoughts, and only MY thoughts:
1. The MTR 2000 repeater is a workhorse. I've sold several and every one of them is still in service. In some respects it may be the best repeater product Motorola ever produced. The Quantar is bigger and more sophisticated, but I'm not convinced it's better. The Quantar is so intelligent that (my opinion) sometimes it talks itself out of working. MTR units just work, and almost forever. When they do require service, however, it's an expensive process. Virtually no service information is available to field service entities (read - your dealer), and therefore it has to be sent to the Motorola depot for repair. The flat rate repair is more than the purchase price of the MotoTrbo repeater.
2. MotoTrbo is new, new, and new. It hasn't proven itself in field use as yet, IMHO. The repeaters are sophisticated in what they can do in the digital mode. In the analog mode they are nothing special. It is true, probably, that the MotoTrbo repeater will still be around when the MTR2000 is gone.. this due to Motorola's desire to quit all things analog. Your dealer may have a challenge hooking a phone patch to a MotoTrbo repeater, but it can surely be done.
Below are my thoughts, and only MY thoughts:
1. The MTR 2000 repeater is a workhorse. I've sold several and every one of them is still in service. In some respects it may be the best repeater product Motorola ever produced. The Quantar is bigger and more sophisticated, but I'm not convinced it's better. The Quantar is so intelligent that (my opinion) sometimes it talks itself out of working. MTR units just work, and almost forever. When they do require service, however, it's an expensive process. Virtually no service information is available to field service entities (read - your dealer), and therefore it has to be sent to the Motorola depot for repair. The flat rate repair is more than the purchase price of the MotoTrbo repeater.
2. MotoTrbo is new, new, and new. It hasn't proven itself in field use as yet, IMHO. The repeaters are sophisticated in what they can do in the digital mode. In the analog mode they are nothing special. It is true, probably, that the MotoTrbo repeater will still be around when the MTR2000 is gone.. this due to Motorola's desire to quit all things analog. Your dealer may have a challenge hooking a phone patch to a MotoTrbo repeater, but it can surely be done.
"The state of the art may well have exceeded the state of the need"
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
What would be the reason to replace the MSF5000?
At least the MSF5000 can be serviced. Altho the dealer may not know anything about them.
At least the MSF5000 can be serviced. Altho the dealer may not know anything about them.
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
I'll second Will's sentiments.... what's the reason for replacing the repeater....
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
I, too, tend to second Will. However, your invitation to compare the MTR2000, a solid workhorse analog station, with MotoTRBO, an untested platform based on a proprietary digital format and comprised (at least within the MotoTRBO cabinet) of two mobile radios, is a comparison of apples and oranges.
Where MotoTRBO has an advantage is only where a small campus wishes to get multiple "talkgroups" out of a single RF channel. However, in addition to the infrastructure, you have to buy all new subscriber stuff, and you have to do some serious logical channel planning (because MT is not a trunked system, only a maximum of two "talkgroups" can be active at any one time). Subject to third parties developing software that Motorola apparently has no interest in developing itself, MT could also be useful for data backhaul from field to HQ (such as inventory control).
If you are content with one logical channel, serving your 50 portables, and presuming your portables are new enough that they can be reprogrammed for narrowband in a couple of years, I'd either stay where you are or go MTR2000.
Where MotoTRBO has an advantage is only where a small campus wishes to get multiple "talkgroups" out of a single RF channel. However, in addition to the infrastructure, you have to buy all new subscriber stuff, and you have to do some serious logical channel planning (because MT is not a trunked system, only a maximum of two "talkgroups" can be active at any one time). Subject to third parties developing software that Motorola apparently has no interest in developing itself, MT could also be useful for data backhaul from field to HQ (such as inventory control).
If you are content with one logical channel, serving your 50 portables, and presuming your portables are new enough that they can be reprogrammed for narrowband in a couple of years, I'd either stay where you are or go MTR2000.
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
I've heard through the grapevine that an MTR2000 based TRBO repeater is on the roadmap, although I don't have a release date...I would expect 2 years or so. T'would make sense to marry their "platform of the future" to their best (IMHO) hardware platform.
If I had the money, and no need for digital, I'd drop the coin on an MTR2000 over the XPR8300 (TRBO offering) any day of the week. We have many, many in service with very, very few issues.
That's my preference...I don't think the TRBO repeater will let you down if you decide to go with it though.
Todd
If I had the money, and no need for digital, I'd drop the coin on an MTR2000 over the XPR8300 (TRBO offering) any day of the week. We have many, many in service with very, very few issues.
That's my preference...I don't think the TRBO repeater will let you down if you decide to go with it though.
Todd
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
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Welcome to the /\/\achine.
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
Just an update for those who care,
Old repeater was moved to new location with generator, new and taller tower almost 2 years ago. We were able to move all tone remote lines, and phone patch lines easily- it helps to be friends with the IT guy. I was able to convince them to pony up cash for a UPS to keep things up until the genset switches over. We also moved another campus department's repeater to the same site.
Tower was donated by the county ham club in exchange for tower / equipment space and power. We were also able to give them free internet and POTS at the site for their repeater. County 911 donated all feedline and connectors. A ham club member (retired CBC TV/radio engineer and RCMP tech) did all the tower climbing and work for free.
For those wondering in 2008 why we were looking to replace the MSF5000, the reason was the narrowbanding deadline. We just installed a new MTR3000. Yes, it took them that long to buy it. We knew the bureaucracy would be a pain, but wasn't expecting that kind of delay.
I'm trying to convince the university to donate the old MSF5000 to the ham club now...
Old repeater was moved to new location with generator, new and taller tower almost 2 years ago. We were able to move all tone remote lines, and phone patch lines easily- it helps to be friends with the IT guy. I was able to convince them to pony up cash for a UPS to keep things up until the genset switches over. We also moved another campus department's repeater to the same site.
Tower was donated by the county ham club in exchange for tower / equipment space and power. We were also able to give them free internet and POTS at the site for their repeater. County 911 donated all feedline and connectors. A ham club member (retired CBC TV/radio engineer and RCMP tech) did all the tower climbing and work for free.
For those wondering in 2008 why we were looking to replace the MSF5000, the reason was the narrowbanding deadline. We just installed a new MTR3000. Yes, it took them that long to buy it. We knew the bureaucracy would be a pain, but wasn't expecting that kind of delay.
I'm trying to convince the university to donate the old MSF5000 to the ham club now...
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Astro Spectra
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Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
Don't forget you can upgrade MTR2000s to 3000s later if 'Tubro floats your boat.
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
Gain TDMA... Lose tons of functionality. FWIW, the 2k wireline card doesn't work in the 3k. Neither does the aux i/o card.Astro Spectra wrote:Don't forget you can upgrade MTR2000s to 3000s later if 'Tubro floats your boat.
Frankly, Motorola has stepped on their peepee big time with the 3k. See my thread in the infrastructure forum.
HOWEVER, you can upgrade a low power MTR2000 to MTR3000, with reduced tx power. Curiously, the 20-40W 2k will put out up to 75 watts as a 3k.... at least that's what the service manual says..........
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
Bitter much? *giggle*escomm wrote:Gain TDMA... Lose tons of functionality. FWIW, the 2k wireline card doesn't work in the 3k. Neither does the aux i/o card.Astro Spectra wrote:Don't forget you can upgrade MTR2000s to 3000s later if 'Tubro floats your boat.
Frankly, Motorola has stepped on their peepee big time with the 3k. See my thread in the infrastructure forum.
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
So it turns out external PTT does work on the 96 pin. Seems RX and TX audio are also present. Low speed data (trunking, PL etc) is NOT present, and won't be. Nor will EXT+ and EXT- or COR. At least the stuff is on the MRTI.
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
"Frankly, Motorola has stepped on their peepee big time with the 3k."
Yep, and while wearing golf shoes to boot. Now they're tearing little pieces of duct tape to patch the holes.
In spite of having been frequently accused of having the Bat tatooed on our corporate hineys, this whole scenario of existing 2K vs newer 3K vs Trbo dilemma plus the service nosedive has us rethinking whether or not MotherMoto is even still in the running for our business. Now that most everything under warranty has to go to depot and isn't always repaired when it does return, rapid turnaround on repairs seems to no longer be a selling point in anything but the sales department's dreams. We use UHF and VHF repeaters depending on what system covers the area, but we also use mobile simplex quite a bit over several miles, and simplex on Trbo is an unknown quantity for us.
Yep, and while wearing golf shoes to boot. Now they're tearing little pieces of duct tape to patch the holes.
In spite of having been frequently accused of having the Bat tatooed on our corporate hineys, this whole scenario of existing 2K vs newer 3K vs Trbo dilemma plus the service nosedive has us rethinking whether or not MotherMoto is even still in the running for our business. Now that most everything under warranty has to go to depot and isn't always repaired when it does return, rapid turnaround on repairs seems to no longer be a selling point in anything but the sales department's dreams. We use UHF and VHF repeaters depending on what system covers the area, but we also use mobile simplex quite a bit over several miles, and simplex on Trbo is an unknown quantity for us.
Last edited by wx4cbh on Mon Aug 20, 2012 9:28 pm, edited 2 times in total.
curmudgeon.....and I like it.
Re: MotoTrbo vs. MTR2000
Well the 3K is an SDR for the most part. So all they need to do is spend some more time programming the thing to do what people need it to do.
My guess is that the proper amount of bitching from enough people will force some change - it has to. Motorola also needs to realize that not every one of these repeaters is used in a "cookie cutter" installation based on their installation recommendations and suggestions.
I'm sure the GTR 8000 in it's current incarnation is missing a few Quantaresque things.
My guess is that the proper amount of bitching from enough people will force some change - it has to. Motorola also needs to realize that not every one of these repeaters is used in a "cookie cutter" installation based on their installation recommendations and suggestions.
I'm sure the GTR 8000 in it's current incarnation is missing a few Quantaresque things.