Friend of mine has a SyntorXX on 10 and 6....xmtr is working fine (200watts on 10/100watts on 6) but the rcvr seems a little low in sens...is there any adjustments I can do on the radio to help it?? (I MAY have problems with my R2670 but when I can hear him full quieting on 6 in my mobile, he cannot hear me well so I think the rcvr checked correctly...about 1.0uV for 20db quieting!). Also anyone got a copy of the manual? He does have the System 90 head (with ABCD banks)....
Anyone out there who can reprogram a memory module/2716 EPROM? He has an extra one and wants to get the channel setup redone...I WOULD but I dont have the software. I read where the PL tone cannot be redone on some sheets that came with the rig...is this true?? I sorta doubt it as his radio has 107.2 and 141.3 programmed on various channels and most of the 10m channels are carrier (but anyway, an external PL encoder would be best given the bands, etc)...
Any info, etc would be appreciated!
Chris
WB5ITT
SyntorXX lowband
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WB5ITT
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SyntorXX lowband
Chris WB5ITT
Trustee, W5APX
Beaumont, TX
Motorola, you may find better but you'll never pay more!
Trustee, W5APX
Beaumont, TX
Motorola, you may find better but you'll never pay more!
Re: SyntorXX lowband
Double check the power output. This radio is supposed to be 110 watts maximum. It is normal to loose some output power (maybe as much as 20 watts) at the upper end of 6 meters because these were designed for 50 MHz maximum and the low pass RF output filter needs to protect the channel 2 television frequency from interference (i.e. the low pass filter cutoff frequency is tight). However, if yours is putting out 200 watts on 10 meters it is either grossly out of adjustment or broken. The Tx power adjustment is on the common circuits board:
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/images/hln4817.gif
There is no adjustment for the receive tuning. The specification is .35 uV for 20 dB quieting and EIA SINAD of .25 uV. The radio has a built in Rx preamp and normally has excellent Rx sensitivity, however your preamp might be damaged. This radio uses PIN switching diodes for Rx/Tx and I'm not sure how well they block Rx path energy at 200 watts Tx.
Here is a bottom view of a VHF radio:
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx/v ... l#bot_view
The low band has no adjustable injection or preselector filters like the VHF in the picture. The tuning elements in the low band are for the noise blanker adjustment. The horizontal empty slot above the VHF preselector is used on the low band for the Rx preamp. The low band uses combinations of fixed high pass and low pass filters. It does not need any tuning or retuning from 29 MHz to 54 MHz continuous.
If you can burn the 2816 EEPROM yourself and you only want HAM Tx frequencies programmed, send me your information and I can create the binary or hex and e-mail it to you.
I do not know what you mean by "I read where the PL tone cannot be redone on some sheets that came with the rig". Each Syntor X mode (Motorola calls them modes and not channels) has its own Rx PL or DPL and Tx PL or DPL. In addition there is a Systems 90 control head that does 8 operator selectable MPLs or you can have 8 Rx and 8 Tx operator selectable MPLs with with two of these boards (if you have the dash space in your vehicle):
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx/c ... html#opmpl
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/photos/code8.jpg
These radios can be converted to Syntor X 9000 radios. It really reduces the control head footprint, has alphanumeric mode names, allows complete control of scanning, some hacked RSS allows 32 operator selectable MPLs, operator selectable noise blanker, etc.
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... onsx9.html
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... xto9k.html
However, aside from a replacement personality board (and possibly a replacement common circuits board), control head and radio cable, this X9k conversion also requires RSS (read the RSS info in the forum rules), an ancient slow IBM type programming computer, RIB and programming cable.
BTW, there is no such thing as Syntor XX. There is only Syntor X, trunking Syntor X2 and trunking Syntor X3.
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/images/hln4817.gif
There is no adjustment for the receive tuning. The specification is .35 uV for 20 dB quieting and EIA SINAD of .25 uV. The radio has a built in Rx preamp and normally has excellent Rx sensitivity, however your preamp might be damaged. This radio uses PIN switching diodes for Rx/Tx and I'm not sure how well they block Rx path energy at 200 watts Tx.
Here is a bottom view of a VHF radio:
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx/v ... l#bot_view
The low band has no adjustable injection or preselector filters like the VHF in the picture. The tuning elements in the low band are for the noise blanker adjustment. The horizontal empty slot above the VHF preselector is used on the low band for the Rx preamp. The low band uses combinations of fixed high pass and low pass filters. It does not need any tuning or retuning from 29 MHz to 54 MHz continuous.
If you can burn the 2816 EEPROM yourself and you only want HAM Tx frequencies programmed, send me your information and I can create the binary or hex and e-mail it to you.
I do not know what you mean by "I read where the PL tone cannot be redone on some sheets that came with the rig". Each Syntor X mode (Motorola calls them modes and not channels) has its own Rx PL or DPL and Tx PL or DPL. In addition there is a Systems 90 control head that does 8 operator selectable MPLs or you can have 8 Rx and 8 Tx operator selectable MPLs with with two of these boards (if you have the dash space in your vehicle):
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx/c ... html#opmpl
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/photos/code8.jpg
These radios can be converted to Syntor X 9000 radios. It really reduces the control head footprint, has alphanumeric mode names, allows complete control of scanning, some hacked RSS allows 32 operator selectable MPLs, operator selectable noise blanker, etc.
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... onsx9.html
http://www.onfreq.com/syntorx/syntorx9k ... xto9k.html
However, aside from a replacement personality board (and possibly a replacement common circuits board), control head and radio cable, this X9k conversion also requires RSS (read the RSS info in the forum rules), an ancient slow IBM type programming computer, RIB and programming cable.
BTW, there is no such thing as Syntor XX. There is only Syntor X, trunking Syntor X2 and trunking Syntor X3.
Re: SyntorXX lowband
Mike, what do you think about the idea that maybe his extender is tuned too close to the channel with poor sensitivity? I seem to recall that there is some "suckout" when that happens. I would think that issues with the T/R switch would show up at the other band-end too.
I have noticed that few people do anything with the extender before reprogramming and using these radios. The extender is not controlled by software (other than off-on) and sometimes has to be retuned to a vacant area per the procedure in the manual.
Gotta wonder about 200W output. 120 is the most I've ever seen and I usually crank them down to 95-100 anyway.
I have noticed that few people do anything with the extender before reprogramming and using these radios. The extender is not controlled by software (other than off-on) and sometimes has to be retuned to a vacant area per the procedure in the manual.
Gotta wonder about 200W output. 120 is the most I've ever seen and I usually crank them down to 95-100 anyway.
Re: SyntorXX lowband
And the antenna switch diodes are probably "smoked".WB6NVH wrote: Gotta wonder about 200W output. 120 is the most I've ever seen and I usually crank them down to 95-100 anyway.
Re: SyntorXX lowband
Hey Will, could you please tell me which board the tr switching diodes are located on and the part number, I beleave I have a couple of radios with same problem. Your extender is still working great on my maxtracs after all these years. thanks. Davie n 3 c h u at atlanticbb dot net
A Stranger is just a friend you havent met yet
Re: SyntorXX lowband
N3CHU,
They are on the RF output PA board near the harmonic filter (the cluster of 5 shielded cans on the PA). Q980 (M9762) does the TR switching duties using the Keyed 9.4 volt signal as its input. CR970 is listed as 48-80236E11 PIN, CR971-CR972 listed as 48-83510F04 SILICON and CR973-CR975 listed as 48-83654H01 SILICON. Of course there is also extensive RF filtering (lots of other parts) for the DC part of the network.
The HFB4000A RF preamp has one CR101 protection diode listed as 48-80012E01 HOT CARRIER . The HFB4000B and HFB4000C RF preamps have three CR101-CR103 protection diodes also listed as 48-80012E01 HOT CARRIER (the added CR102 and CR103 directly short the RF input from the PA board TR switch, both hooked up as opposite polarity in parallel). If these hot carrier diodes get smoked, then Q100 (M8239) is also a good bet to be damaged.
I think a service manual would be a good thing to have if you intend to do your own repairs. At least you would have a schematic.
WB6VNH,
The noise blanker "extender" is a complete parallel receiver RF section that gets its input signal directly from the Rx preamp before the normal Rx first mixer. The three visible tuning slugs and three zero ohm resistor internal jumpers (R300, R301 and R302) on the extender front end board tune the extender frequency. The jumpers set the ranges of 29.7-40 MHz (all three jumpers installed) and 39-50 MHz (all three jumpers removed), then the tuning slugs do the fine adjustments within these two fixed tuning ranges.
I agree most people don't even know what tuning range their extenders are set for. It is hard to say, but the extender front end board that splits the Rx signal into two equal parts (one for the receiver and the other for the extender) looks like it might not do an equal split if its tuned to the actual input frequency (even with the extender turned off). I would not treat it as a problem unless low Rx sensitivity is measured with a service monitor (see below).
Unless the reported 200 watts output is a mistake (I didn't know you could even get this much power out), then I would agree with Will rather than suspecting the extender tuning. The extender is only about 1 MHz bandwidth, so programming a Rx frequency a little over 1 MHz away should give a good comparison Rx sensitivity measurement for reference to determine if the extender tuning is a problem or not.
The problem I have with my low band X9k is it burned out one of my VHF Spectra Rx pin switching diodes. The antennas were too close. The low band X9k didn't suffer any damage from the high power Spectra.
They are on the RF output PA board near the harmonic filter (the cluster of 5 shielded cans on the PA). Q980 (M9762) does the TR switching duties using the Keyed 9.4 volt signal as its input. CR970 is listed as 48-80236E11 PIN, CR971-CR972 listed as 48-83510F04 SILICON and CR973-CR975 listed as 48-83654H01 SILICON. Of course there is also extensive RF filtering (lots of other parts) for the DC part of the network.
The HFB4000A RF preamp has one CR101 protection diode listed as 48-80012E01 HOT CARRIER . The HFB4000B and HFB4000C RF preamps have three CR101-CR103 protection diodes also listed as 48-80012E01 HOT CARRIER (the added CR102 and CR103 directly short the RF input from the PA board TR switch, both hooked up as opposite polarity in parallel). If these hot carrier diodes get smoked, then Q100 (M8239) is also a good bet to be damaged.
I think a service manual would be a good thing to have if you intend to do your own repairs. At least you would have a schematic.
WB6VNH,
The noise blanker "extender" is a complete parallel receiver RF section that gets its input signal directly from the Rx preamp before the normal Rx first mixer. The three visible tuning slugs and three zero ohm resistor internal jumpers (R300, R301 and R302) on the extender front end board tune the extender frequency. The jumpers set the ranges of 29.7-40 MHz (all three jumpers installed) and 39-50 MHz (all three jumpers removed), then the tuning slugs do the fine adjustments within these two fixed tuning ranges.
I agree most people don't even know what tuning range their extenders are set for. It is hard to say, but the extender front end board that splits the Rx signal into two equal parts (one for the receiver and the other for the extender) looks like it might not do an equal split if its tuned to the actual input frequency (even with the extender turned off). I would not treat it as a problem unless low Rx sensitivity is measured with a service monitor (see below).
Unless the reported 200 watts output is a mistake (I didn't know you could even get this much power out), then I would agree with Will rather than suspecting the extender tuning. The extender is only about 1 MHz bandwidth, so programming a Rx frequency a little over 1 MHz away should give a good comparison Rx sensitivity measurement for reference to determine if the extender tuning is a problem or not.
The problem I have with my low band X9k is it burned out one of my VHF Spectra Rx pin switching diodes. The antennas were too close. The low band X9k didn't suffer any damage from the high power Spectra.
Re: SyntorXX lowband
Several posts refer to solving low band sensitivity problems. Recently I have seen several
radios exhibiting sensitivities down by 6 to 10 dB. In evry case the problem was traced to
CR102 and CR103 in the pre-amplifier module. The incoming RF is switched by several
PIN diodes in the power amplifier section, in lieu of a T/R relay. The receive RF is sent out
of the PA section via a hole in the casting to the pre-amplifier. These two diodes are
connected directly across the incoming line as limiters to the input of the transistor to follow.
One or both of these devices fail in a mode from leaky to short and essentially bypass some
of the incoming RF signal to ground resulting in low sensitivity.
These hot carrier diodes usually have very low capacitance, like 2pF, in their off state so as
not to pass much RF in their off state. The Motorola part number for the diodes is 48-80012E01.
However, I have used other generic types like HP2800 (axial) or HSMS-2800-BLKG (SOT).
The M8239 (aka 2SC3355) was not damaged in the units that needed the protection diodes.
Rick
radios exhibiting sensitivities down by 6 to 10 dB. In evry case the problem was traced to
CR102 and CR103 in the pre-amplifier module. The incoming RF is switched by several
PIN diodes in the power amplifier section, in lieu of a T/R relay. The receive RF is sent out
of the PA section via a hole in the casting to the pre-amplifier. These two diodes are
connected directly across the incoming line as limiters to the input of the transistor to follow.
One or both of these devices fail in a mode from leaky to short and essentially bypass some
of the incoming RF signal to ground resulting in low sensitivity.
These hot carrier diodes usually have very low capacitance, like 2pF, in their off state so as
not to pass much RF in their off state. The Motorola part number for the diodes is 48-80012E01.
However, I have used other generic types like HP2800 (axial) or HSMS-2800-BLKG (SOT).
The M8239 (aka 2SC3355) was not damaged in the units that needed the protection diodes.
Rick