idiot service shops

[fire_master_21]

I have a couple questions,
#1
What does it take to find a competent Motorola service shop? I have an xts5000 that needs the firmware bumped up. I have sent this thing to 2 MRSS’s. Each has had this radio about a month. Each claim it should take a day or two to get it done. Then they keep telling me they are having trouble getting this done. They claim Motorola is not shipping them the needed items to do the upgrade.
#2
What exactly is needed to perform the upgrade? I have a current subscription for the CPS and an OEM cable for this thing.
#3
Can the lay person order the firmware from Motorola and do the upgrade? If yes is there a part number that correlates to this?

[Jason]

You might be suprized at the number of motorola shops that have NEVER performed a real flashport upgrade on a radio. Alot of the shops around supporting businesses and such dont really have a need to that much. Even those that do support smaller fleets of upper tier radios just ship the stuff off. It makes more sense.

You might also be suprized at the neccessary steps & complexity in ordering these kits. I've experienced exactly what you say the shop is telling you on more than one occasion. They are probably telling you the truth.

No, motorola wont sell you the stuff to bump the firmware in one unit. That's what the depot is for. Send radio + paperwork + $75, it comes back with the newest host&dsp, less all the hassle you describe.

Send the radio to the depot. No it doesnt support the local shop, and yes it sucks in some ways, but its the best route for what you want to accomplish, IMHO.

You can look at a list of MSS shops at usmss.org, if you would rather continue your quest. I can't blame you for wanting "walk in" service. The reality is this "unobtainium" in many areas.

[fire_master_21]

I have sent other off last time. The depot had the radios for a month and a half. I was thought that a shop would be able to get me my radio back a whole lot sooner.

[Wicho]

Just send it to Escomm and be done with it.

[Batwings21]

There are several FSB's out there right now for xts firmware issues, all of which the resolution is firmware upgrade. All the shop has to do is download a pdf file, then fill it out and email it to the motorola email address on the form. I got my upgrades in 2 days. And if they fill out a second form, motorola will pay them for doing the upgrade that costs them nothing...

[escomm]

upgrade that costs them nothing...

Oh, 4 million dollars worth of insurance is free?

[Batwings21]

I work for a MSS ( platinum service partner or some crap now). All I'm saying is it takes all of 2 minutes to fill out the form and email to motorola, have done it many times, plus motorola will pay them 1/2 to 1 hr labor depending on your labor rate to do the upgrade. If they don't want to do it for him, then why be in business...

Escomm

When I said it costs them nothing , I meant the upgrade itself. Of course everyone knows there is overhead along with any business. Motorola is going to pay the shop labor for doing the upgrade for them, plus the shop can charge the customer a reasonable amount. I'm just tired of people talking about firmware upgrades for the astro 25 line like they are so hard to get.

[escomm]

I work for a MSS ( platinum service partner or some crap now). All I'm saying is it takes all of 2 minutes to fill out the form and email to motorola, have done it many times, plus motorola will pay them 1/2 to 1 hr labor depending on your labor rate to do the upgrade. If they don't want to do it for him, then why be in business...

Motorola does not pay labor on firmware upgrades, unless they are a warranty or FSB issue, as noted below.

Escomm

When I said it costs them nothing , I meant the upgrade itself. Of course everyone knows there is overhead along with any business. Motorola is going to pay the shop labor for doing the upgrade for them, plus the shop can charge the customer a reasonable amount. I'm just tired of people talking about firmware upgrades for the astro 25 line like they are so hard to get.

Again, Motorola does not reimburse anyone for firmware upgrades, only warranty repairs, and even then a firmware up would fall under tier one and qualify for a whopping $15 reimbursement. A shop can charge the customer labor, yes, but does that labor cover the cost of Astro 25 CPS or the programming cable? That's another ~$575 investment right there, just so they can do firmware ups. It's ludicrous to think every shop has the need or desire to perform such work, so at the end of the day the customer needs to go with the shop that suits their needs. Especially when they might get 1 or 2 such requests per year.

And actually, the paperwork for a firmware up is a bit of a pain in the ass. I am not comfortable providing Motorola with my customer's name and address, simply for a firmware up.

It's evident you've got a pretty narrow view of how things work, so it would be best not to talk in absolutes. Bad information is worse than no information at all.

[4n6inv]

I'm with Escomm on this one 100%. And unless you are an exceptionally large shop and it's being done for a very large customer; Motorola won't pay you a thin dime. I just did a firmware bump for seven different counties in West Texas ~279 radios that all had the same Astro Enhanced Digital ID display issue, that took me two months on the phone INSISTING that they correct the problem. I had to show them (No Sh!t) in their OWN sales brochure where the advertisement claimed to do thus and such but wouldn't do it. They kept insisting that I was not programming the radio properly. I had to email them a codeplug; wait until they got off their sweet asses and evaluate it, only to tell me that my programming WAS correct after all. Then; they had the audacity to tell me to BUY he firmware bump @ $76.00 each and SELL them to the customer for a profit, because the radios were out of warranty! That way; I could get a programming fee! How nicely, and fairly Motorola treats their bread and butter Law Enforecement and Public Safety folks! Real community spirited! After all of that; I spent another ten days waiting for a supervisor to review my case, so we didn't have to pay for the bump. He begrudgingly agreed, after I threatened to blow the whistle on the other guy for trying to talk me into scamming my own buddies in my home town and others, by charging them for a firmware upgrade to fix a defective one from the factory! Absolutely incredible. So; yes; after all of this BS; I wound up with all of the firmware bump upgrade dongles that I could eat, and; as Escomm said; $575.00 for SW and a USB flash cable. Reimbursment from Motorola - Zilch! Fighting and winning a losing battle against Motorola and looking like a hero to the Good Guys in blue? Priceless. I'll make up the $575.00 on the next reprogramming deal that I do for them. It's the least I can do for the guys taking care of me and my family. Thank God I only do it for a hobby. Escomm can't feed a family and keep a roof over him and his employees by giving things away. Neither can anyone else. So; if you've never been in business for yourself trying to make a living; don't you dare piss and moan about what people charge to do work that you can't. You want a freebie? Go to the Red Cross. We're here to make a living.

[MTS2000des]

wow, no wonder the city of Marietta, GA went with EF Johnson for their Astro 25 subscriber radio needs, apparently EF Johnson doesn't play these games. Ironic how the EFJ 5300's sound better on an Astro 25 system than the XTS5000's. RadioOne of Atlanta has also been a superb dealer in making the transition.

[n7maq]

One other thing, every time you do a flash (or even programming) you risk the chance of bricking a radio. This does happen, even with everything correct (OEM cables, computer setting all correct), just ask people involved in re-banding upgrades. Now try to get that fixed under warranty, Carlos will just laugh at you (and then he will send you back the wrong radio anyway) and you have a $300.00 depot bill. So by the time a dealer fills out the paper work, and generates an invoice they have .5 hours in to it already. The upgrade does take a techs time then. If it's a 1 time deal, it does take time to set everything up. If you are doing several at once then you have a chance to make your money back at FSB/SRN reimbursement rates, and only then will you come close to making your normal T&M rate. Off the soapbox..


Jim

[4n6inv]

Sorry for the soapbox diatribe; but, I just had dinner with a bunch of Chinese delegates that think we Americans should be limited on how much money/profit (3%) that we make off of them (with a 23 Trillion; YES; 23 Trillion dollar surplus) Oddly enough; the Chinese Customs (IQB - Insepction Quarrantine Bureau) folks are driving Mercedes Benz's, etc. while I have taken over 500 photos of others living in grass and clay brick shacks. Hummm.... I'm going with the the good ole USA way of doing things.

BTW; my diatribe was meant for no one specifically. I'm just tired of hearing people boo-hoo over how much individuals, who take risks with thier own money; hoping to turn a buck (and many of them losing everything), make by risking it all. You go Escomm! If I wern't already an NSO (or whatever they call it after 16 years), you'd be my point of contact. I've never heard one single negative comment about them.

Not too long ago; someone asked how to wind up with a small fortune in the two way business. I don't remember who replied, but they said: "Start out with a large fortune, and you'll wind up with a small fortune." Genious! Pure Genious! Same holds true with anyone that is self-employed. You take the risks, you take the chances; and you wind up with everything, something, or nothing at all. Usually the latter...

Thank God; I don't depend on two way as my source of income. I wouldn't make enough to starve. I just fly around the world, spend hundreds of thousands of dollars on it and lodging every year, miss my children's first steps, their first words, or their first day of school, my wife, my home; and then make a fair living (under six figures a year). And, that's with a PhD. Go figure.

I'm done. Sorry for any offense.

Jim

[Batwings21]

If you read my first post I said there are FSB's out for the xts5000 that provide a firmware upgrade as the resolution. Motorola does pay labor on a firmware upgrade for a FSB, like I originally said. If you disagree with me then fine, but at least get what I said in the correct context before you attack. And as far as the form for getting an upgrade all you have to provide is your shop info and the customer name and model number, firmware revision and flashcode. Serial number is needed only if the shop wishes to reimbursed.

My point from my original post was this... The original poster is a customer, a motorola customer and customer of the shop he took the radio to. If the shop had the ability to program the radio, they could have got him a upgrade and at least broke even on the deal, more than likely making a small profit. That would have been customer service. A customer is still a customer whether he has 1 radio or 1000... There is no excuse to take the radio in over the counter, and then keep it for a month as the original poster said the shop did. If the shop did not have the equipment, they never should have taken in the radio.

Before I get flamed any more for stating some facts and my opinion, I'm done. Last post I will make on the issue...

[fire_master_21]

There is no excuse to take the radio in over the counter, and then keep it for a month as the original poster said the shop did. If the shop did not have the equipment, they never should have taken in the radio.

I couldn't agree more. I just wish they would have been up front and told me they couldn't do it. In fact they still have my radio. They said they would return it to me this past friday upgraded or not. I am still with out my radio tonight.

[com501]

We do flash upgrades all the time, particularly when the customer has older radios we sold them that are several revisions behind. Many features (and even some codeplug issues) have been corrected over the years. When the field tech goes out in the field to program a whole city's worth of radios, I sure want the features that the customer asked for to work as they did when we programmed is Ver 12 XTS demo unit.

On the other hand, front counter folks who have to come back and ask me 'What kind of radio is this?' aren't all that uncommon either, and frequently have no clue what our capabilities are. Don't expect the front counter person to be able to tell you what can be done to your radio.