Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and After

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Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and After

Postby ASTROMODAT » Fri Dec 03, 2010 2:42 pm

I could very well be wrong, but it seems to me that up until the advent of the new APX radios, a firmware uplift not only cost $'s, but you had to specify your radio's specific options and features. The FLASHport firmware upgrade had to be ordered through M sales, and was apparently custom built at the factory.

With APX, I notice that APX firmware is not only N/C on MOL, but it is the same file of firmware for APX radios (although the mobile is obviously different from the portable, and I assume that a 7000 is different firmware than a 6000, or a 7500 versus a 6500, etc.), appartenlty regardless of what optiopns/features your APX is equipped with.

Does anyone know what has changed that now makes this possible? I can't quite wrap my brain around how the firmware load can be the same between an APX with P25, for instance, and an APX that is analog, etc. Just curious...
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby spectragod » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:02 pm

I think it is provided free off MOL for several reasons......

The radio was released before it was ready to be, therefore, bugs in the FW

Evertime the latest FW is released, new bugs are found. Vicious circle.

7k for a radio, people expect it to work, and not have to pay to fix problems that should have been taken care of before the product was released, i.e. the xts 5k comes to mind as fitting this description.

I think once the FW is stabilized, it will no longer be free of charge.
Kilgore: Smell that? You smell that?
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby ASTROMODAT » Fri Dec 03, 2010 3:49 pm

I understand the aspect of the N/C situation, but I was more wondering as how this can work: How can one set of firmware support any APX 7000, given that any given APX 7000 may have far different feature sets than another APX 7000? My point was that up until the advent of the APX line, firmware was custom brewed at M based on the exact nature of the particular feature set of your particular radio. Now, the firmware is on MOL, so there is now way to customize it. This is a GOOD thing, but I'm confused as to what has changed that APX firmware is now almost universal (given a radio model).

Don't get me wrong, this is great, but I'm just curious as to what has changed, and how the heck they can even technically do this...
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby n7maq » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:16 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:t you had to specify your radio's specific options and features. The FLASHport firmware upgrade had to be ordered through M sales, and was apparently custom built at the factory.

Does anyone know what has changed that now makes this possible? I can't quite wrap my brain around how the firmware load can be the same between an APX with P25, for instance, and an APX that is analog, etc. Just curious...


The firmware does not care what the options are, it is the same on the A25 radios (each model, but not feature set had it's own CVN). On the IMBE Astro units the Host F/W does not care what the flash is except for P25 trunking models, and there was Analog only DSP, and digital DSP. The older VSELP units had their own DSP also (it was paired with older Host F/W).

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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby ASTROMODAT » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:49 pm

Thanks, Jim! That expalins my dilemma. We have P25 trunked radios, so the firmware is unique to each model. However, I wonder if APX is the same this way, in that if you have an APX that is P25 trunked, it will also need unique firmware (as opposed to a conventional APX, for instance)?
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby n7maq » Fri Dec 03, 2010 4:55 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:Thanks, Jim! That expalins my dilemma. We have P25 trunked radios, so the firmware is unique to each model. However, I wonder if APX is the same this way, in that if you have an APX that is P25 trunked, it will also need unique firmware (as opposed to a conventional APX, for instance)?



For the APEX it should all be the same.
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby escomm » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:07 pm

spectragod wrote:I think it is provided free off MOL for several reasons......

The radio was released before it was ready to be, therefore, bugs in the FW

Evertime the latest FW is released, new bugs are found. Vicious circle.

7k for a radio, people expect it to work, and not have to pay to fix problems that should have been taken care of before the product was released, i.e. the xts 5k comes to mind as fitting this description.

I think once the FW is stabilized, it will no longer be free of charge.

No, I don't think this will be the case, Motorola has already said they won't be requiring a flashkey to perform FW upgrades, it will cause a great deal of strife with the big customers if this changes.
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby resqguy911 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:22 pm

Firmware is feature agnostic.
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby d119 » Fri Dec 03, 2010 6:33 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:I could very well be wrong


You usually are. :o

ASTROMODAT wrote: but it seems to me that up until the advent of the new APX radios, a firmware uplift not only cost $'s, but you had to specify your radio's specific options and features. The FLASHport firmware upgrade had to be ordered through M sales, and was apparently custom built at the factory.

With APX, I notice that APX firmware is not only N/C on MOL, but it is the same file of firmware for APX radios (although the mobile is obviously different from the portable, and I assume that a 7000 is different firmware than a 6000, or a 7500 versus a 6500, etc.), appartenlty regardless of what optiopns/features your APX is equipped with.

Does anyone know what has changed that now makes this possible? I can't quite wrap my brain around how the firmware load can be the same between an APX with P25, for instance, and an APX that is analog, etc. Just curious...


Same deal with the Waris series radios. There was never a charge for the firmware upgrades to these radios, and again, it was because they were released before they were ready, and because each update fixes something and breaks something else. It's all part and parcel of the decline of quality at Motorola, and how things just aren't the way they used to be. We ended at what, R7.something for the XTS 3000/ASTRO Saber, we made it to R15 for the Astro25 radios, now what will the APX be? R24?

I'm not chomping at the bit to get my hands on an APX for personal use. I'll pass. Considering the most recent thing I own is an XTS 2500, you could say I'm not very impressed these days. And I work with this stuff EVERY day. Thank God the conventional infrastructure quality hasn't severely declined, don't get me started on the trunked infrastructure...
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby rc50won » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:36 am

According to a 9-29-10 training put on by Kent Kennerly of Motorola Plantation, APX updates will go to subscription beginning Jan 2011 and will not be on MOL from that point forward.

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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby ASTROMODAT » Mon Dec 06, 2010 8:40 am

darn, should have known it was too good to last!
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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby spectragod » Mon Dec 06, 2010 9:11 am

rc50won wrote:According to a 9-29-10 training put on by Kent Kennerly of Motorola Plantation, APX updates will go to subscription beginning Jan 2011 and will not be on MOL from that point forward.

Marshall


I guess this is where I say "told ya so". Once stabilized, it will no longer be -0- cost.
Kilgore: Smell that? You smell that?
Lance: What?
Kilgore: Napalm, son. Nothing in the world smells like that.
Kilgore: I love the smell of napalm in the morning. You know, one time we had a hill bombed, for 12 hours. When it was all over, I walked up. We didn't find one of 'em, not one stinkin' dink body. The smell, you know that gasoline smell, the whole hill. Smelled like... victory. Someday this war's gonna end...

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Re: Firmware Uplifts: Before the Advent of APX Radios and Af

Postby escomm » Mon Dec 06, 2010 5:40 pm

Yes but does he mean programming software updates or firmware updates? The CPS has been free for over a year, makes sense they'd start charging for it. Firmware updates, will be very interesting.
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