HT750/HT1250 - Lithium ions batteries

[g8tzl2004]

I recently acquired 5 old "slightly used" Lithium ion batteries.

4 of the batteries had a manufacture date of 2002 Week 44 . Type HNN9013B. Cells made in Japan.

The remaining battery was made in 2009 Week 34. Type HNN9013D. Cells are made in Taiwan.

Of the 5 batteries , only 2 charged OK - both the 2002 Japanese cell batteries.

2 of the batteries gave a flashing red light in the charger (one Japanese and the Taiwanese battery)

The remaining faulty Japanese battery gave a constant red light followed by a brief yellow light , say every 10 seconds and then back to constant red. BUT the battery was not taking on any charge and there was no increase in voltage - around 0.2v was measureable. I tried applying a 100mA tricke charge for a few minutes but again there was no increase in voltage. Anyway, I left the battey for a day and have just put it back on charge and the charge process has started with a constant red light and a gradually increasinging cell voltage when the battery is on the charger. It soon jumped from 0.2 to 7.6v and rising...but when you take the battery off the charger, the battery voltage drops back to 0.2v !!!

Is there anything I can do to revive any of the dead Lithium batteries? I don't think Lithium batteries like to be zapped like Nicads!!!!

Thanks

[escomm]

No, do not try to bring them back to life unless you want to see what thermal runaway is first hand. Or you can just go on youtube to see it. Firefighters will be very unhappy with how difficult it will be to extinguish!

[wavetar]

LiON chemistry batteries have a finite shelf life...they lose capacity as they 'age', in a much more pronounced fashion than other chemistries. If you get them to work at all, your mileage will vary dramatically. I have 'jump started' LiON batteries just like NiCDs and NiMH, using a current limited power supply...I think my success rate is around 0% for anything older than 2 years, even when 'lightly used'. A lot of them exhibited the voltage issue you describe...looks good until removed from the charger & then nothing.

[RadioSouth]

It's too bad, those 9013 batteries are so slim and lght, they make the radio a lot easier to carry. Besides the 9013 none of the other batteries are any slimmer than the 9008 ? There's a 1100 MAh NiCad that I was wondering on, can't find and thickness spec on it (WPNN4045A)

[g8tzl2004]

I guess I should be happy that 2 of the 5 old Lithium batteries appear to be OK. I did a 30 second 5w TX test and the 2 batteries seemed to hold up under high load.

I have found on several other devices - cell phones , sat navs etc , that if the Lithium battery voltage has decline to 0v or less than 2v, then the power management IC in the device will not charge the battery. But all you need to do is remove the battery and provide a low current limited trickle charge for a minute or so to get the voltage up - the battery will then be recognised by the internal charge system. I wonder how many devices have been binned as "faulty" just because of a poor charge management routine!!!

With my "collection" of old cell phones I have found that Lithium batteries BEFORE 2001 generally always seem to have failed while after 2001 they seem very reliable and will always charge OK or just need to be trickle charged to get the voltage up. I guess the capacity will be lower although cell phones don't usually require the battery to delivery maximum full current load...unlike , say , laptop batteries.

The 9013 batteries are very thin and make the radios seem much smaller. I also have a Impress 4003 battery which is very light but very thick - twice the thickness of the 9013!!!

[escomm]

I have found on several other devices - cell phones , sat navs etc , that if the Lithium battery voltage has decline to 0v or less than 2v, then the power management IC in the device will not charge the battery. But all you need to do is remove the battery and provide a low current limited trickle charge for a minute or so to get the voltage up - the battery will then be recognised by the internal charge system. I wonder how many devices have been binned as "faulty" just because of a poor charge management routine!!!

Bad idea.

Quoth Cadex:

Do not recharge lithium-ion if a cell has stayed at or below 1.5V for more than a week. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells that can lead to a partial or total electrical short. If recharged, the cells might become unstable, causing excessive heat or showing other anomalies. Li-ion packs that have been under stress are more sensitive to mechanical abuse, such as vibration, dropping and exposure to heat.

Emphasis added.

http://batteryuniversity.com/learn/arti ... _batteries

[g8tzl2004]

Just as well that I have a smoke detector next to all my battery chargers!!!

You would think that Motorola would make sure that its chargers would refuse to charge any 0v lithium batteries in case of fire. Two of the 9 year Motorola lithium batteries charged OK and seem to work OK although both batteries measured 0v before they were put on the charger.

If a Motorola charger will accept a 0v lithium battery , does that mean that Motorola thinks the battery is OK. 3 identical 0v batteries were "rejected" with a flashing red LED in 2 cases and red with occasional yellow LED in one case.