Need Astro Sabers flashed

[standardmissile]

I would like to apologize to the mod if this is the wrong board, but I was looking to see if any of you guys here knew of a place that still flashes the old Astro Sabers. My radios currently support conventional signals and APCO-25 signalling only. However I need them to support multi-key software based cryptography for DES-XL/OFB in both conventional and APCO-25 modes, selectable pl for encode/decode, selectable pl for encode, as well as MODAT/MDC selcall. I had been referred to Astro Communications but found the guy running the business to be rude right off the bat, and would prefer not to do business with him based on how I was treated over the phone. Also I had been told by my local ham shop that Bearcomm (the local motorola dealer) no longer deals with flashing these things. If you guy/gals have any reccomendations I'm all ears.

[n7maq]

You are looking to get options that are not valid, there is no software based DES in the Astro line. There is no MPL in the Astro line. The MODAT, and MDC will work (with the correct flash).

Is your radio a 1 meg unit, or 512K? What is the flash, and f/w in there now?

Jim

[standardmissile]

First off I want to apologize for any unrealistic expectations or requests, as I am new with these kinda things. My radio officer decided to retire after 15 years and left the task of upgrading our old Motorola Analog SecureNet Saber equipment to the new narrowband compliant Astro Saber/XTS-3000, to me. As a result of this narrowbanding our team decided to choose the Astro Saber due to the ease of upgrading the commo equipment, considering our extensive inventory of old accessories.

Most of our our units have a 1 Meg Vocon with R05.00.02, DSP N06.04.09, Flashcode 100008-000000-0. The others have 1MB Vocon with R05.01.02, DSP N06.04.09, Flashcode 100004-000000-4. We don't have any 512KB units in inventory....... yet.

I was told by a guy in the local PD who used these things, that the Astro Saber did do Software based DES-XL/OFB crypto, provided that it had the 1MB Vocon board as well as the right DSP and flashcode. However, I don't know if he was mistaking the XTS-2500/XTS-5000 ASTRO25 units with the Astro Saber/XTS-3000 line, as we have little to no experience with the new Astro series equipment other than just using what was put in our hands as is. For our operations we need basic crypto (not DVI, DVP, AES-256 or god forbid Faccinator) and already have the KVL-3011DX for DES-XL/OFB, but do not have the hardware boards already in these radios, hence why we asked for the software based alternative. Also the multikey option isn't needed, but would be nice for securing certain commo traffic from personnel who are not cleared for it, without having to set up complicated trunking or loading/deleting channels regularly. So if multikey isn't available then I guess we didn't lose anything we already had, but we do need the COMSEC capabilities, aside from relying on APCO-25 digital signaling.

Also as an additional request, we would like to have the DSP updated to the latest version for the Astro Saber line, as the IMBE audio quality on these radios right now isn't great compared to our counterparts using their up to date XTS-3000s and XTS-5000s.

[jmr061]

DES-XL/OFB is hardware encyption and you must have the encryption module installed in the radio. Multikey is a flash option that could be added. If you want current dsp stay away from the 512k units as legit upgrades won't upgrade 512k units to the latest dsp, only the matching host/dsp for the 512k radios.

You probably won't find a Motorola dealer that will do these as they hit the end of life cycle from Motorola years ago already. You will probably need someone on the 2nd hand market to do it.

Jason

[MTS2000des]

the only "software" based encryption available is ADP, and only on Astro 25 products, not the XTS3000/Astro Saber.

better off trying to offload those and invest in something newer that is supported. The Astro 25 radios (XTS1500/2500/5000) are coming up on 10 years in production, and are starting to be common in the surplus circles at reasonable prices. They are still fully supported by Motorola and most full service dealers.

[standardmissile]

I managed to track down some DES-XL/OFB boards on the used market from a reputable seller, however they are for the XTS-3000. Are these components cross compatible with the Astro Saber? And would the radios need to be flashed to support any crypto modules, as it looks like I can already enable them in the CPS. Or are the modules completely unique to XTS-3000 for form factor reasons? Also my contact in PD did swear that the Astro Sabers did do software crypto. He steered me to Batlabs listing of flashcode options for the radios and it is listed as option H29 on the www.batlabs.com/astopts.html page.

I do want to thank you guys/gals for providing the insight you have thus far, as I'm pretty lost and have gotten conflicting info elsewhere. This is saving me brain cells and sanity points by being able to work with experienced commo people who know these radios.

[jmr061]

That was an early form of software encryption and is not supported in later firmware and is NOT DES OFB. The Astro Saber uses the same encryption boards as the Astro Spectra and NOT the XTS3000.

Jason

[d119]

The XTS 3000 and ASTRO Saber use different encryption modules, as the form factor of the actual module is completely different.

No special firmware flashes or whatnot are required to enable secure operation. The radio supports it by default, the only necessary steps are to install the module and enable it using standard CPS.

There was software encryption available for VSELP-based ASTRO Sabers, but VSELP units were "first generation" ASTRO, and are not IMBE/P25 compatible so most ASTRO Sabers were upgraded to IMBE, and very few VSELP units remain. Some of the more popular, illegitimate flash codes such as 591008-4F1E00-9, while being feature packed and perfectly usable, do contain options that are incompatible and allow you to enable things that don't actually work (software encryption being one of them).

There is no support for ADP on the ASTRO Saber or XTS 3000 line. (There may be by way of a hardware module - that I don't know for sure - but it's not a flash option).

[standardmissile]

So I did manage to find crypto boards specifically for the Astro Saber. These things are DES-XL only and was wondering if that DES variant was restricted to the APCO-25 or analog mode only, as my buddy over in local PD had no idea. I know there are 3 DES types out there, DES, DES-XL, and DES-OFB. I had read that the DES had limitations on the range (70% of analog) for wideband (20-25KHz) Securenet, DES-XL got rid of the range issue in DES as well as did APCO-25 crypto, and the DES-OFB was restricted to APCO-25 only. So would these modules support out COMSEC on analog as well as APCO-25?

Also, my other concern as stated before, is there anyone who can still do the DSP updates for these things? The audio quality sucks on our DSP 06.04.09 compared to the guys running XTS-5000s with version 16.xx.xx, and we would love to have the quality of Version 08.03.03 as it the best we can do on these things.