Frequency reuse spacing

[MassFD]

Anyone out there know the FCC rules for frequency reuse in the 460 uhf offset frequencys in public safety PW licensing

We have had a repeater licensed for about 10 years (460.XXX output 465.XXX input), recently a 2 watt mobile was licensed on our input frequency. I know the Dept involved and am sure this will be used as a mobile X band repeater, not a 2 watt but a Rick with a high power CDM or similar. Last time they tryed this the X Band was mounted on a building at about 30 feet elevation.

How they could license on an input frequency of a repeater less than 10 miles away has me puzzled (even at 2 watts), they used IMSA to courdinate this.

Something similar happened to us in the 470 band also, we have had a license there over 25 years, a few years ago another station was licensed at 28 miles from our location. When we attempted to do a license modification APCO protested it and we had to get a concurance from the other licensee yet no one asked us for a concurance when the other station was licensed at least 20 years after we were.

All our courdaination has always been done by IMSA, did both these events fall between the cracks or is there something I am not understanding about frequency reuse??

[Jim202]

Anyone out there know the FCC rules for frequency reuse in the 460 uhf offset frequencys in public safety PW licensing

We have had a repeater licensed for about 10 years (460.XXX output 465.XXX input), recently a 2 watt mobile was licensed on our input frequency. I know the Dept involved and am sure this will be used as a mobile X band repeater, not a 2 watt but a Rick with a high power CDM or similar. Last time they tryed this the X Band was mounted on a building at about 30 feet elevation.

How they could license on an input frequency of a repeater less than 10 miles away has me puzzled (even at 2 watts), they used IMSA to courdinate this.

Something similar happened to us in the 470 band also, we have had a license there over 25 years, a few years ago another station was licensed at 28 miles from our location. When we attempted to do a license modification APCO protested it and we had to get a concurance from the other licensee yet no one asked us for a concurance when the other station was licensed at least 20 years after we were.

All our courdaination has always been done by IMSA, did both these events fall between the cracks or is there something I am not understanding about frequency reuse??

Someone had to approve the frequency coordination before the license could be obtained. Sounds like you need to start asking questions of the frequency coordinators and file a protest.

Jim

[MassFD]

Thanks Jim

Thats what I was thinking, guess a call to IMSA will be on next weeks list of things to do. On the 465 problem the courdinator was IMSA for both systems.

On the previous 470 problem our app was handled by IMSA and APCO protested it and required a concurance from the late comer

How either one of these licenses went thru without any notification to us is a mistery to me.

[escomm]

Thanks Jim

Thats what I was thinking, guess a call to IMSA will be on next weeks list of things to do. On the 465 problem the courdinator was IMSA for both systems.

On the previous 470 problem our app was handled by IMSA and APCO protested it and required a concurance from the late comer

How either one of these licenses went thru without any notification to us is a mistery to me.

You were notified when the application was filed and added to the FCC's public database

If you don't monitor your own frequencies for new licenses, things like this can happen

Enterprising companies offer proactive monitoring of your licenses for a fee, usually a couple thousand dollars a year

[MassFD]

I wout have thought that since IMSA handled both they would have flaged it on the 460 problem.

On the 470 problem the new system was licensed and when we went to mod our license for a 25 year old station APCO picked up on it.

I always thought the courdinators where there to prevent things like this from happening, if not what is there function

[escomm]

Coordinators have been known to issue defective coordinations from time to time. AAA paid out 7 figures to an LMR operator here in LA over some defective T Band channels. That's why it's incumbent upon the licensee to monitor their own licenses.

[okto]

Enterprising companies offer proactive monitoring of your licenses for a fee, usually a couple thousand dollars a year

A couple kilobucks a year to check the FCC website for you?! I gotta get in on that racket.

[FMROB]

MassFD,

Excluding T Band which as we speak right now is one animal with two different heads. UHF 450-470 is not protected the same way T Band is. What they did is not improper (but also not too smart). IMHO if it is in fact 2 watt limited MO only channel there is no protection at all to you or them. If it were of real power (3 watts or greater) an LOC (letter of concurrence) would be required before proper coordination and submittal to the FCC, especially with PW group channels. Your recourse is not really clear, unless you can prove interference or that they new licensee is operating outside the parameters of their license, which they may be.

I was working on a license for a large township up north of us and the coordinator (same people) were being helpful and pulled one of "our channels" for a trunking system we are doing. I laughed and crossed it off the list. We would have needed an LOC anyway, but it just wouldn't have worked out. If you run into a major problem with them call me, they happily collect a lot of my money every year, lol.

BTW, what happened to you with the T-Band thing is complete BS. Rules are kind of basic, Can't re license co-channel within 64km (40 miles). Adjacent channel is handled in similar fashion, 12.5 channels 64km protection for no studies. If you are within the 64km you need to pass TSB88 study with no more than 5% interference to or from and you are good to go. 6.25 channels are handled differently and the incumbent licensee is treated as wide band, both co and adjacent need to pass TSB (and that's not too easy).

[MassFD]

Yea Rob, The 2 watt on the 465 input if operated within the license should not cause us any problems but this same dept ran an X Band repeater on this frequency about 5 years ago. It was unlicensed (expired long ago), It took a letter from our attorney after they ignored our letter to make them go away. Will see what happens.

I aggree the T Band thing was BS but at least they are distant so they do not cause any problems, just bugs me that we had to get a concurance from them to mod our license when we where there first and never even knew they had licensed on the frequency.