Scanner question

[FireTim]

I am doing some research for our fire department for the purchase of some scanners. First a little history. We are a small county surrounded by 2 different metro areas. We operate on VHF high system, but everyone around us is on 800 (motorola P25) trunking. The chief wants to put scanners in the outlying stations to monitor other agencies, since we do run mutual aid with them.

I know this may be in the wrong forum, but I have recieved so much help from members on this board, I thought it wouldn't hurt to ask.
The locations where I will be placing the radios have good reception in most cases. Using a small portable scanner, I can pick up mostly what I need for myself.
We will be placing these units in a console with a small ground plane antenna.

Anyone with ideas, please email me

Thanks

[tdats]

I have been very happy with my Uniden BCD996 scanner. I was even been able to find console face places made for this scanner.

I am not really sure what you are asking for though. Are you after recommendations on antennas or scanner?

[Will]

[quote="FireTim"](snip)
We will be placing these units in a console with a small ground plane antenna.
/quote]

Why not have the Chief get a hold of the other agency(s) and get some radios from them. Then you will have the correct trunking information in the radio.

[Jim1348]

.....Why not have the Chief get a hold of the other agency(s) and get some radios from them. Then you will have the correct trunking information in the radio.

While that suggestion might sound good, I rather doubt that the other fire departments have a bunch of spare radios just sitting on a shelf.

To follow up on what others have already posted, Uniden is releasing two new scanners soon. The are the Uniden BCD436HP and BCD536HP. Both will be able to follow P25 Phase II systems. Or, the Uniden BCD396XT and BCD996XT and Uniden Home Patrol generally do okay on trunked 800 mHz systems. Not as well as a genuine Motorola, mind you, but they do okay.

One other thing that might be worthy of consideration is the possibility of getting at least some dual band radios. Something along the lines of a Motorola APX7000 or APX7500. That way you could have BOTH VHF high band and 800 mHz P25 trunking in one radio. And, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, there are grants to be had for inter-operability. It sounds to me like this would be a perfect example of an agency that could use radios subsidized by an inter-operability grant! Check with the appropriate sources on making application for those grants.

[Will]

Jim,

The OP did said this is for a console, not sure if a mobile hooked to the console. And he will need a system key anyway.

[SteveC0625]

Jim,

The OP did said this is for a console, not sure if a mobile hooked to the console. And he will need a system key anyway.

I'm not sure what console the OP's department is using, but we had real good luck hooking up both scanners and single channel receivers like the old L03's and Plectron Chiefs to console modules on both the true module style consoles and the first and second generation Centracoms.

[Jim202]

.....Why not have the Chief get a hold of the other agency(s) and get some radios from them. Then you will have the correct trunking information in the radio.

While that suggestion might sound good, I rather doubt that the other fire departments have a bunch of spare radios just sitting on a shelf.

To follow up on what others have already posted, Uniden is releasing two new scanners soon. The are the Uniden BCD436HP and BCD536HP. Both will be able to follow P25 Phase II systems. Or, the Uniden BCD396XT and BCD996XT and Uniden Home Patrol generally do okay on trunked 800 mHz systems. Not as well as a genuine Motorola, mind you, but they do okay.

One other thing that might be worthy of consideration is the possibility of getting at least some dual band radios. Something along the lines of a Motorola APX7000 or APX7500. That way you could have BOTH VHF high band and 800 mHz P25 trunking in one radio. And, at the risk of pointing out the obvious, there are grants to be had for inter-operability. It sounds to me like this would be a perfect example of an agency that could use radios subsidized by an inter-operability grant! Check with the appropriate sources on making application for those grants.

Working in the field of radio interoperability, let me shed some light on these dual or even tri band radios in some cases. The big draw backs to any of these radios is two fold. First is the excessive cost. Second and what none of the sales forces will tell you is that there is only one receiver in these fancy, high priced radios. That means sure they can scan both bands, but the first signal captured is the only thing you will hear. Until the signal goes away and the receiver starts scanning again, you won't hear anything else. That's not what I would call being able to keep in touch with other departments.

Bottom line, my suggestion is to go the route of a scanner or second complete radio. That way you will be able to at least listen to both bands at the same time. A real big help if your at a mutual aid call and need to keep up with the action.

Jim

[pfd radio]

I don't know how many stations you are talking about or your financial situation. What if your department bought radios and had the two departments put them on their systems (rather than borrow radios). You could probably put it just in your headquarters if you could not do all your stations.

[Jim1348]

.....The big draw backs to any of these radios is two fold. First is the excessive cost. Second and what none of the sales forces will tell you is that there is only one receiver in these fancy, high priced radios. That means sure they can scan both bands, but the first signal captured is the only thing you will hear. Until the signal goes away and the receiver starts scanning again, you won't hear anything else.....Bottom line, my suggestion is to go the route of a scanner or second complete radio. That way you will be able to at least listen to both bands at the same time. A real big help if your at a mutual aid call and need to keep up with the action.....

Those are excellent point. I have done various things over the years working in law enforcement. I have used scanners, second radios, and even used an amateur radio to receive on. Even when we were on VHF high band exclusively, it wasn't unusual on an incident to be using the mobile on one channel and the portable on a different channel. In fact, when doing this, I generally did NOT scan on the portable, but left the mobile in the scan mode.

When we joined the statewide 800 mHz trunked system several years ago, the decision was made to put mobile radios in only the marked county patrol cars. Unmarked cars, like mine, were equipped with XTVAs for the Motorola XTS5000 that I was issued. For the most part, it wasn't a bad way to go. I felt limited by the number of talkgroups that I could follow, though. So, I bought a portable scanner and used that to follow the talkgroups that I didn't scan on my XTS5000. I probably would have preferred to have both a dedicated mobile AND the XTS5000, but it wasn't my decision.

Currently, I use an XPR on a MOTO TRBO system at my post-retirement job. That is supplemented by some XTS2500s. I don't scan with the XPR because there is no need for that. I do scan on the XTS2500.

We also use scanners at work and they are used in a manner similar to what Fire Tim is suggesting. One thing that you might want to consider is "Cop Proofing" your scanners. Or, shall I say "Firefighter-Proofing" them. We have some Uniden BCD996Ts and some Uniden BCD996XTs for monitoring an P25 800 trunked system. They are a decent scanner as consumer grade devices go. Clearly they do NOT receive as well as the XTS5000s, however. I had noticed that every so often I would get the word that "the scanner is messed up". I realized that what was happening is the Close Call Feature was being selected. The control for this is selected by pushing in the rotary squelch control. So, what I did is lock out every possible band for the Close Call Feature. That way, even when Close Call is selected, it can't do anything since there is no band to check. If you go with a BCD996T or XT, I would encourage you to do that to make them "Firefighter Proof"!

[PhillyPhoto]

We also use scanners at work and they are used in a manner similar to what Fire Tim is suggesting. One thing that you might want to consider is "Cop Proofing" your scanners. Or, shall I say "Firefighter-Proofing" them. We have some Uniden BCD996Ts and some Uniden BCD996XTs for monitoring an P25 800 trunked system. They are a decent scanner as consumer grade devices go. Clearly they do NOT receive as well as the XTS5000s, however. I had noticed that every so often I would get the word that "the scanner is messed up". I realized that what was happening is the Close Call Feature was being selected. The control for this is selected by pushing in the rotary squelch control. So, what I did is lock out every possible band for the Close Call Feature. That way, even when Close Call is selected, it can't do anything since there is no band to check. If you go with a BCD996T or XT, I would encourage you to do that to make them "Firefighter Proof"!

The uniden BCD536HP is coming out in a couple weeks and does P25 Phase 2. The BCD436HP is the handheld and is expected to be released a few weeks after the base/mobile. If you go the scanner route, pick one of those up over the 996T/XTs. Like Jim said, the quality isn't the same as a professional radio, but they are 10% or so of the price.

[thebigphish]

One thing that you might want to consider is "Cop Proofing" your scanners. ... The control for this is selected by pushing in the rotary squelch control. So, what I did is lock out every possible band for the Close Call Feature. That way, even when Close Call is selected, it can't do anything since there is no band to check. If you go with a BCD996T or XT, I would encourage you to do that to make them "Firefighter Proof"!

Or open the unit up, and cut the trace for the push-to-select CC function on the knob. I'm sure it would work on these, as we used to pop open other units and just snip the trace for features we wanted physically locked out. Prevents the person who googles the manual from adding in a feature they "think we need" when no one is around to tell them no.

[Jim1348]

Or open the unit up, and cut the trace for the push-to-select CC function on the knob. I'm sure it would work on these, as we used to pop open other units and just snip the trace for features we wanted physically locked out. Prevents the person who Googles the manual from adding in a feature they "think we need" when no one is around to tell them no.

Thanks you for the suggestion, but I wouldn't even think of doing that. I have got to imagine that even opening the case might void the warranty. Plus, if these were ever sold in the future, I wouldn't want to ruin a second hand purchaser from having that feature.

I had a similar issue in the past with my Yaesu FT-8800 amateur radio transceivers. They have this WIRES feature that can be easily selected unintentionally. I never used the feature, well, let's just say that I never intended to use that feature. There was a way to select a setting in the menu that essentially disabled that feature. Multiple purpose buttons can be sort of a double edged sword!