VHF vs GMRS

[candrist]

I am curious what you would choose if could choose between VHF and GMRS?

We are buying all of our equipment right now, but I am on the fence. We need to cover a 10 mile radius. We will have 1 repeater and about 25 handheld units. The handhelds are used in homes while on site.

My company has a Grandfathered GMRS license so licensing is cheaper, and I can use wide-band equipment.

It seems like having to deal with a frequency coordinator for VHF is a pain and costs money if we ever need changes to our License. It also seems like VHF repeaters are harder to come by used and cost more then UHF equipment.

The handheld units will cost me the same if I choose VHF or UHF.

Thoughts?

Chris

[RadioSouth]

Depends on terrain as to whether VHF or UHF would perform better in your application. That being said GMRS might be the only choice of the two you mention as VHF repeater pairs are seldom granted to Business applicants. The Grandfathering of the business use of GMRS channels never expires ?

[candrist]

The Grandfathering of the business use of GMRS channels never expires ?

It doesn't expire as long as you never let your license lapse and keep renewing it.

Chris

[Will]

The Grandfathering of the business use of GMRS channels never expires ?
It doesn't expire as long as you never let your license lapse and keep renewing it.

Chris

Or change any perimeters on the license.

[Bill_G]

Utah has the lumpy bump big things depending on where you live of course. But, gmrs will work fine. Easier to find equipment. Easier to build repeaters.

[601]

Depends on terrain as to whether VHF or UHF would perform better in your application. That being said GMRS might be the only choice of the two you mention as VHF repeater pairs are seldom granted to Business applicants. The Grandfathering of the business use of GMRS channels never expires ?

Out here in NJ, there are A LOT of VHF conventional business repeaters. 2 companies I worked for, both commercial, had VHF repeaters. Maybe because UHF and T-band are overcrowded here... Who knows...

[train_radio_guy]

GMRS is probably the way to go, for a number of reasons:

1. GMRS is exempt from the FCC Narrow-Banding requirement, along with FRS & MURS.
2. Plentiful (& cheap) supply of business band radios, which will no longer Part 90 compliant, after 1/1/2013.
3. Frequency coordination is not as challenging with GMRS/UHF.
4. UHF Repeaters are readily available, and are relatively inexpensive, because of the legacy equipment, that can't be upgraded to comply with the Narrow-Banding requirement.

All important points to keep in-mind.

- trg,

[d119]

GMRS is probably the way to go, for a number of reasons:

1. GMRS is exempt from the FCC Narrow-Banding requirement, along with FRS & MURS.
2. Plentiful (& cheap) supply of business band radios, which will no longer Part 90 compliant, after 1/1/2013.
3. Frequency coordination is not as challenging with GMRS/UHF.
4. UHF Repeaters are readily available, and are relatively inexpensive, because of the legacy equipment, that can't be upgraded to comply with the Narrow-Banding requirement.

All important points to keep in-mind.

- trg,

Hello Holmes? FRS was narrowband from day 1. Read the specifications. Same with MURS channels 1-3. 4 & 5 are either or.

[candrist]

GMRS is probably the way to go, for a number of reasons:

1. GMRS is exempt from the FCC Narrow-Banding requirement, along with FRS & MURS.
2. Plentiful (& cheap) supply of business band radios, which will no longer Part 90 compliant, after 1/1/2013.
3. Frequency coordination is not as challenging with GMRS/UHF.
4. UHF Repeaters are readily available, and are relatively inexpensive, because of the legacy equipment, that can't be upgraded to comply with the Narrow-Banding requirement.

All important points to keep in-mind.

- trg,

That was kind of my thought too.

[Tom in D.C.]

Guys, once and for all let's get the MURS NB/WB thing straight so that we don't confuse people. MURS channels 1, 2, and 3 are narrowband. MURS channels 4 and 5 are listed as wideband, but I suppose could be narrowband if the user wished to do it that way.

95.633 Emission bandwidth.

(f) The authorized bandwidth for any emission type transmitted by
a MURS transmitter is specified as follows:

(1) Emissions on frequencies 151.820 MHz, 151.880 MHz, and
151.940 MHz are limited to 11.25 kHz.
(2) Emissions on frequencies 154.570 and 154.600 MHz are
limited to 20.0 kHz.
(3) Provided, however, that all A3E emissions are limited
to 8 kHz.

[Will]

EXACTLY, GMRS FRS and MURS are NOT part 90. Thanks Tom.

Guys, once and for all let's get the MURS NB/WB thing straight so that we don't confuse people. MURS channels 1, 2, and 3 are narrowband. MURS channels 4 and 5 are listed as wideband, but I suppose could be narrowband if the user wished to do it that way.

95.633 Emission bandwidth.

(f) The authorized bandwidth for any emission type transmitted by
a MURS transmitter is specified as follows:

(1) Emissions on frequencies 151.820 MHz, 151.880 MHz, and
151.940 MHz are limited to 11.25 kHz.
(2) Emissions on frequencies 154.570 and 154.600 MHz are
limited to 20.0 kHz.
(3) Provided, however, that all A3E emissions are limited
to 8 kHz.

[train_radio_guy]

GMRS is probably the way to go, for a number of reasons:

1. GMRS is exempt from the FCC Narrow-Banding requirement, along with FRS & MURS.
2. Plentiful (& cheap) supply of business band radios, which will no longer Part 90 compliant, after 1/1/2013.
3. Frequency coordination is not as challenging with GMRS/UHF.
4. UHF Repeaters are readily available, and are relatively inexpensive, because of the legacy equipment, that can't be upgraded to comply with the Narrow-Banding requirement.

All important points to keep in-mind.

- trg,

Hello Holmes? FRS was narrowband from day 1. Read the specifications. Same with MURS channels 1-3. 4 & 5 are either or.

Thanks for the Sherlock Holmes compliment.... I'm flattered, even if it's with a touch of sarcasm.

Believe it or not, there have been some early radios that did both GMRS & FRS, which were standard NFM, on both GMRS & FRS. I agree that they probably weren't compliant with the rules set forth by the FCC, but never the less they were operating at the standard NFM, according to both of our IFR120B's, as well as the HP service monitor.

Back to Chris' original issue. For any reasonably large coverage area, GMRS with a repeater is probably the best way to go, especially since Chris's company has an existing GMRS License. From a cost perspective, it makes even more sense, since there is a host of conventional gear coming on the market, that's very inexpensive, which will not meet the FCC Narrow-Banding requirement. This is a non-issue for GMRS users, since GMRS is exempt from the new requirement.

Off the top of my head, here are a few things to consider:

- Compatibility with newer narrowband radios, and future system upgrades,
- Possible interference issues with adjacent channel users, operating under the new narrow-band standard,
- Long-term support, for radios that will eventually be manufacturer discontinued.

I'm sure there are other short-comings to deploying radios & systems that do not support the new narrow-band requirement, but if you're going to stay with GMRS, and price is a deciding factor; then there is a plentiful supply of repeaters, base stations, mobiles, & portables out there, for pennies on the dollar.

Ultimately, you'll have to weigh all the factors, including those that I missed.

- trg,

[candrist]

TRG,

I think I am going to go GMRS. The radios we will be using are Motorola CP200's and I was going to purchase an MSF5000 UHF repeater and tune it to GMRS. I know the CP200 Radios will work just fine on wideband.

I figured that Motorola has already abandoned support for the MSF5000, but there seems too be plenty of parts lying around. In addition, I have only heard 2 GMRS repeaters from the location that will have the repeater. Amateur Radio is much bigger in Utah then GMRS.

Thanks to all that gave input. I appreciate the views from different angles that I may not have thought about! Love BatBoard!

Regards,

Chris

[motorola_otaku]

I highly recommend using 69.3 or 206.5 for your squelch tones.. or better yet, use both split. Very few bubble-wrap radios can operate on either of those tones since they're non-standard. DPL is hit-or-miss with many new radios coming with extra "privacy channels."

If you live anyplace urban, and you put up a repeater with a moderate or big footprint you are going to light up a lot of kids with bubble-wrap Wal-Mart specials, and odds being what they are one or two of those kids will know how to use tone/code search so using non-standard tones and split tones is paramount.. unless you want to listen to some dumbass yell profanity at you at all hours of the day and night. BTDT.

[candrist]

I thought about that with the bubble pack radios. I hadn't done the research yet on the tones so this saves me some time. I would like to do DPL, but I have to make sure the repeater we purchase supports it. I know the MSF5000 does.

Chris

[Garyf629]

TRG,

I think I am going to go GMRS. The radios we will be using are Motorola CP200's and I was going to purchase an MSF5000 UHF repeater and tune it to GMRS. I know the CP200 Radios will work just fine on wideband.

I figured that Motorola has already abandoned support for the MSF5000, but there seems too be plenty of parts lying around. In addition, I have only heard 2 GMRS repeaters from the location that will have the repeater. Amateur Radio is much bigger in Utah then GMRS.

Thanks to all that gave input. I appreciate the views from different angles that I may not have thought about! Love BatBoard!

Regards,

Chris

I was under the understanding that ANY modification to a grandfathered GMRS business license would render it null and void? It was explained to me that since you are changing your system, you HAVE make it meet current licensing standards.

Also why would spend any money improving a system that is basicly an unregulated service? GMRS around here is becoming as bad as 11 meter CB radio. If your spending the money to install an MSF-5000, why not get a business license and get some protection?

[candrist]

Because you don't have to have a control point or a designated ant, location or transmitter we don't have to modify our license. It is closer to Amateur Radio in that regards, except you don't have a frequency coordinator like you do with Amateur Radio.

GMRS in Utah is virtually unused. It may be a bad place for a company repeater in other states, but it is quite ideal for us.

[Garyf629]

You do for a repeater.

[candrist]

Not for a GMRS Repeater