OK, I'm starting this thread as an announcement so it gets the proper attention it deserves.
I want to get some feedback on what you guys think we as a community should do to help people reduce the issues that have been posted as of recent regarding people getting scammed out of equipment and money.
Some of my thoughts:
- Impose a requirement on the board software that you have to have 50-100 postings before you can post something in for sale/wanted. This will reduce the posts in the forum, however, you'd be buying from someone who has hopefully established a bit of a "name" for themselves, and hopefully enough posts to look back on to see if they know what they are talking about or not. This might encourage more BS posts, but I also have Jon install a module that will make posts in the Bat Lounge *not* count to your current number of posts.
- impose a no-ebay link rule. This would be so that people stop posting those annoying links to peoples auctions who don't know what they are doing, or otherwise pointing out auctions that could lead to fraud in one way or another - esp. if someone goes well this person with this knoledge posted this as a good deal and it turned out to be a brick.... blah blah. You get the idea.
- Keep things as they are now.
- Only allow discussion on purchases made through batlabs with respect to fraud in an attempt to alert other members. Create 1 topic as a sticky in the feedback forum for the purpose of "outside" warnings. This wouldn't be a place holder for discussion about it, but hopefully would lead to a PM or something from another member with more information.
I honestly don't know how to solve the problem. I also don't want someone to be so annoyed with a new policy that they leave the board either, so I guess I'll ask you guys to weigh in with how you think it should be delt with. I'm sick of seing the I got scammed posts as of recent, and I want to reduce the image of the board being a place to complain about it. Isn't that what newsgroups are for?
Anyway, please feel free to weigh in with your comments and ideas.
WE can't be held liable for people having bad trades. It's up to you to take the TIME to do the RESEARCH.
IF IT IS TOO GOOD TO BE TRUE, IT IS.
-Alex
Feedback - and what should we do?
Moderator: Queue Moderator
Feedback - and what should we do?
Last edited by alex on Mon May 19, 2003 2:30 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi Alex:
I think you have started a good thread, and I am sure there
will be considerable feedback and both Pro and Con.
In a short summery:
1. The Creation of a Batforum Member Rating !
2. The Review or Limit Controls on Ebay Adds
3. The Review or Limit Controls Links to other Forums.
4. A tighter control of whom can join the Batlab Forum ?
And Before I make my comments, I would like to let others in on
a few past problems I have encountered.
In the beginning, the forum had a limited number of Professional users, and did not require a Password, just logon and post. It got
out of hand, hence the User Name & Password evolved.
At present, the board runs very smooth with the exception of
[ Just a few ] and the board will become larger and larger in the
Future, and we really want the Professional, Seasoned persons
to stay for sure, and New ideas are always welcome.
I feel most members should stay so long as they follow
reasonable protocols, and abide by the Rules.
Unfortunately, some members have chosen to [ Attack ] the integrity of Moderators and even Administrators with many
un-supported comments while at the same time using the
system resources for free.
This is atypical of a negative impact most Professional persons
have no time for and will leave the Batforum in favor of less
non-sense.
Therefore, I feel it might be worthwhile to establish a [ Rating ]
for members !
This could be [ Added or Changed ] to a User Name once
the account has been established.
Easy to due ( and maintain ) by Forum Administrators
Ebay has this feature ( with Buyer / Seller Feedback ) and something similar could be easily established here too.
What that would do is Establish Forum status for Professional Persons and other Forum members based on their contribution
as a whole.
This would ultimately have a Positive [ Impact ] beyond just buying and selling practices in and for the Batboard members and they would be Incentive for them to stay, as well as being
Recognized for their efforts.
Many Professionals, Hobbyist , Amateurs alike, would appreciate the the occasional [ Thank You ] for their time and efforts when they [ added ] a noted contribution
On the Sensitive Subject of Ebay, and other news groups. ( And this may or may not be shared with others )
I feel the Ebay Links ( and similar ) should be carfully reviewed, and perhaps should go !
And PLEASE !, this is just a Personal Opinion, and may not
be shared by others !
Reason:
It was OK in the Past, but many have started to list Non-Sense
adds, and they do take up system resources. Or just perhaps
establish a [ Limit ]. I see a real hazzard in the near future regarding this issue...
If you get a Batboard Rating high enough, then maybe it would
be alowed or overlooked.
Some of the current members use it ( Ebay ) as a form of character add assassination, and have nothing better to due than when one\ Forum member lists a item on the For Sale Forum, its met with a Brage of Ebay items similar to the For Sale Forum.
Just because a item is Listed on Ebay , DOES NOT make
it worthwhile, or should be used a Guide for Buying and Selling.
Just look at the past / current problems associated with Ebay
Adds. Misleading / AS-IS / NO Return / CASH ONLY / etc.
I MEAN HELLO !! No 2 Astro-Sabers / Or HT600's are the Same !
BUT some members feel you should be able to buy a 300.00 Brand
New item for 20.00~25.00 just because a used one is listed on Ebay.
This is done not for improving the forum, but just as a way of saying
the same thing may be found cheaper, better, or to offend a Seller
for listing items on the For Sale Forum.
I would strongly Recommend a [ Batforum Member Rating ! ]
Reason:
This would help others understand who [ May be ] more knowledgeable about subject matter than others, and will
not be misled.
It would also make persons [ Desire ] and want the Highest Rating
possible and would be willing to work for it !
It would also keep a Majority of Professional Persons around who
are in fact knowledgeable about the Two Way Industry, and NOT based on how much product one buys or sells on Ebay !
Anyhow, those are just a few of my comments, and I may add
a few others, but one thing for sure, we will do everything possible
to keep the Batbaord Forum a true success.
Again, as always these are Perosnal Opinions which may or may
not be shared with others, and no offense is intened.
Monty
I think you have started a good thread, and I am sure there
will be considerable feedback and both Pro and Con.
In a short summery:
1. The Creation of a Batforum Member Rating !
2. The Review or Limit Controls on Ebay Adds
3. The Review or Limit Controls Links to other Forums.
4. A tighter control of whom can join the Batlab Forum ?
And Before I make my comments, I would like to let others in on
a few past problems I have encountered.
In the beginning, the forum had a limited number of Professional users, and did not require a Password, just logon and post. It got
out of hand, hence the User Name & Password evolved.
At present, the board runs very smooth with the exception of
[ Just a few ] and the board will become larger and larger in the
Future, and we really want the Professional, Seasoned persons
to stay for sure, and New ideas are always welcome.
I feel most members should stay so long as they follow
reasonable protocols, and abide by the Rules.
Unfortunately, some members have chosen to [ Attack ] the integrity of Moderators and even Administrators with many
un-supported comments while at the same time using the
system resources for free.
This is atypical of a negative impact most Professional persons
have no time for and will leave the Batforum in favor of less
non-sense.
Therefore, I feel it might be worthwhile to establish a [ Rating ]
for members !
This could be [ Added or Changed ] to a User Name once
the account has been established.
Easy to due ( and maintain ) by Forum Administrators
Ebay has this feature ( with Buyer / Seller Feedback ) and something similar could be easily established here too.
What that would do is Establish Forum status for Professional Persons and other Forum members based on their contribution
as a whole.
This would ultimately have a Positive [ Impact ] beyond just buying and selling practices in and for the Batboard members and they would be Incentive for them to stay, as well as being
Recognized for their efforts.
Many Professionals, Hobbyist , Amateurs alike, would appreciate the the occasional [ Thank You ] for their time and efforts when they [ added ] a noted contribution
On the Sensitive Subject of Ebay, and other news groups. ( And this may or may not be shared with others )
I feel the Ebay Links ( and similar ) should be carfully reviewed, and perhaps should go !And PLEASE !, this is just a Personal Opinion, and may not
be shared by others !
Reason:
It was OK in the Past, but many have started to list Non-Sense
adds, and they do take up system resources. Or just perhaps
establish a [ Limit ]. I see a real hazzard in the near future regarding this issue...
If you get a Batboard Rating high enough, then maybe it would
be alowed or overlooked.
Some of the current members use it ( Ebay ) as a form of character add assassination, and have nothing better to due than when one\ Forum member lists a item on the For Sale Forum, its met with a Brage of Ebay items similar to the For Sale Forum.
Just because a item is Listed on Ebay , DOES NOT make
it worthwhile, or should be used a Guide for Buying and Selling.
Just look at the past / current problems associated with Ebay
Adds. Misleading / AS-IS / NO Return / CASH ONLY / etc.
I MEAN HELLO !! No 2 Astro-Sabers / Or HT600's are the Same !
BUT some members feel you should be able to buy a 300.00 Brand
New item for 20.00~25.00 just because a used one is listed on Ebay.
This is done not for improving the forum, but just as a way of saying
the same thing may be found cheaper, better, or to offend a Seller
for listing items on the For Sale Forum.
I would strongly Recommend a [ Batforum Member Rating ! ]
Reason:
This would help others understand who [ May be ] more knowledgeable about subject matter than others, and will
not be misled.
It would also make persons [ Desire ] and want the Highest Rating
possible and would be willing to work for it !
It would also keep a Majority of Professional Persons around who
are in fact knowledgeable about the Two Way Industry, and NOT based on how much product one buys or sells on Ebay !
Anyhow, those are just a few of my comments, and I may add
a few others, but one thing for sure, we will do everything possible
to keep the Batbaord Forum a true success.
Again, as always these are Perosnal Opinions which may or may
not be shared with others, and no offense is intened.
Monty
Last edited by Monty on Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:59 am, edited 3 times in total.
-
larryepage
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:00 pm
Obviously this is not a simple subject. And I reserve the right to change my position, BUT...
On-line buying of used items or items carrying no warranty has always carried the same risks as other means of buying similar items. The notion of "buyer beware" should go without saying. In fact, I've completely stopped buying on eBay, because the bad or marginal deals have increased to the point that they have negated any price savings (for me, at least).
Un-refereed feedback is at some point (if not already) going to start causing problems for those who write it and perhaps for those who host it. The problem is that I or anyone else can essentially say anything we want about anyone else in a feedback forum, and there is no test of whether it is true. So I tend to be very skeptical when reading any feedback, even if it all "glows."
Negative feedback threads on this board seem to take little different turn from feedback in other forums. This may be because a number of members here have careers either in or closely related to law enforcement. I get very uncomfortable when threads here develop into a coordination of law enforcement activities. Even worse when they turn toward remediation outside of formal law enforcement activities or processes. Both of these seem to be outside the scope of the board's intended and stated purposes. (And I know...when I get scammed, it upsets me. And I want things to be made right. That's natural, but I don't think this is the place for it.)
So...I'd propose this...
Feedback in the Feedback Forum only. Posts with feedback content deleted from anywhere else.
Feedback limited to deals with other Batboard members.
Limited length of threads. Permit the initial feedback and a reply from the other member, then lock the thread. Moderate out multiple threads which attempt to continue the discussion. (I know...I'm not a moderator, so that's easy for me to say.)
On-line buying of used items or items carrying no warranty has always carried the same risks as other means of buying similar items. The notion of "buyer beware" should go without saying. In fact, I've completely stopped buying on eBay, because the bad or marginal deals have increased to the point that they have negated any price savings (for me, at least).
Un-refereed feedback is at some point (if not already) going to start causing problems for those who write it and perhaps for those who host it. The problem is that I or anyone else can essentially say anything we want about anyone else in a feedback forum, and there is no test of whether it is true. So I tend to be very skeptical when reading any feedback, even if it all "glows."
Negative feedback threads on this board seem to take little different turn from feedback in other forums. This may be because a number of members here have careers either in or closely related to law enforcement. I get very uncomfortable when threads here develop into a coordination of law enforcement activities. Even worse when they turn toward remediation outside of formal law enforcement activities or processes. Both of these seem to be outside the scope of the board's intended and stated purposes. (And I know...when I get scammed, it upsets me. And I want things to be made right. That's natural, but I don't think this is the place for it.)
So...I'd propose this...
Feedback in the Feedback Forum only. Posts with feedback content deleted from anywhere else.
Feedback limited to deals with other Batboard members.
Limited length of threads. Permit the initial feedback and a reply from the other member, then lock the thread. Moderate out multiple threads which attempt to continue the discussion. (I know...I'm not a moderator, so that's easy for me to say.)
Larry Page
W5LEP
FCC GROL
W5LEP
FCC GROL
I 100% agree with Monty. There should be some sort of rating system on the board. I myself am getting tired of people trying to rip others off and degrading the board.
I myself came to this board to get knowlege and help that I need. I have gotten that many times over. I know a HELL of a lot more than I did when I posted for the first time. Now I find myself helping others out.
But when people come to take advantage and misuse the board, that serously pisses me off.
I have dealt with many other members... only after seeing how active they are in the forums. A feeback system right along with the user would put me at ease. And anyone that has exessive negative be banned from selling and buying or from the board alltogether.
We have to get the board back to what it's supposed to be. Information with professionals and newcomers working together without reservation!
Just my opinion
I myself came to this board to get knowlege and help that I need. I have gotten that many times over. I know a HELL of a lot more than I did when I posted for the first time. Now I find myself helping others out.
But when people come to take advantage and misuse the board, that serously pisses me off.
I have dealt with many other members... only after seeing how active they are in the forums. A feeback system right along with the user would put me at ease. And anyone that has exessive negative be banned from selling and buying or from the board alltogether.
We have to get the board back to what it's supposed to be. Information with professionals and newcomers working together without reservation!
Just my opinion
How many bogus for sale adds actually originated here? I thought a lot of the people that got scammed found the add on eBay themselves, not through here.
If the problem was @ssholes on here sellling items or advertising their eBay adds on here then scamming, I think the post-count thing would help. Usually the idiot (usually the same hermaphrodite) has a post count of 5 or so. But I am under the impression that many of the problem sales came from outside the board. There were a few members here that screwed people over but I think they had high enough post counts and seemed reliable to begin with.
If the problem was @ssholes on here sellling items or advertising their eBay adds on here then scamming, I think the post-count thing would help. Usually the idiot (usually the same hermaphrodite) has a post count of 5 or so. But I am under the impression that many of the problem sales came from outside the board. There were a few members here that screwed people over but I think they had high enough post counts and seemed reliable to begin with.
"I'll eat you like a plate of bacon and eggs in the morning. "
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
-
AngelFire_91
- Posts: 345
- Joined: Fri Sep 21, 2001 4:00 pm
I would have to agree with Monty, I think a user rating would be a very good way of at least sorting through the good and the bad deals that could be made, I'm not saying that all are good and all are bad, but it would defanently tell the buyer or seller hey this guy/girl only has 5 so maybe you want to research this more. I also think that a posting limit would help, I don't mean to make it hard those truly wanting to sell or buy on the form, but it would bring the amount of people that just signup post one thing and never come back down, I have noticed that here lately there has been a moderate amount of people that have just signed up and will start posting for sell Items, I will not even consider those usally If it is some one I have seen on here contributing and I have had personal interactions with or things like that then sure I would consider that a better idea and I would be more trusting. Now on the trusting issue, having a limit could promote a false since of securty, "well this person has contributed and has been on here for a long time, I can trust them" I'm not by anyway saying that there is anyone here I can't trust, I'm just not sure intill I start dealing with him/her, and am only using this as an example. Having a limit could make people belive they would be safe, but you can't always stop everybody.
That is my $0.02
I decided to edit this because I wrote this first, and then as I was reading through the recent post, I came up with an Idea. This could be more work than what anyone wants to do or deal with but, Why not make another (I know never a good phrase) form and it would be just topics related to Ebay. I know that would make some more problems because then are resources would be streatched out, it would of course have to have an moderator, and then it would be another form to have to look over, but it was Idea I thought I would through out there.
That is my $0.02
I decided to edit this because I wrote this first, and then as I was reading through the recent post, I came up with an Idea. This could be more work than what anyone wants to do or deal with but, Why not make another (I know never a good phrase) form and it would be just topics related to Ebay. I know that would make some more problems because then are resources would be streatched out, it would of course have to have an moderator, and then it would be another form to have to look over, but it was Idea I thought I would through out there.
Last edited by AngelFire_91 on Tue Jan 28, 2003 9:57 am, edited 1 time in total.
Kevin
I think references/adds for eBay items should be banned. We are all intelligent enough to go to eBay and look for what we want, if we want to go to eBay at all.
This board is not for selling/buying; however, having said that, I believe that I trust memebers of this board to be truthful and forthright in dealings. I have had several trades/swaps with people here, and all went very well - I think in great part because the people here are interested and usually knowledgeable on the subjects of communications/radios, or are just getting into it and we can help them out.
I think a forum for saying it went good/bad FOR ONLY TRADES INITIATED BETWEEN AND AMONG BOARD MEMEBERS should be here.
We are not here to police eBay nor enforce eBay rules. I have had good/bad luck on eBay, but here is not the place to whine about it.
As far as the moderators go, I think there is enough to do to keep this board running and as informative as it is without the added work load to keep an eBay forum (whatever form it takes) under control. If we start some kind of "rating" system, then it seems like this just becomes another buy/sell board - and it looses all reputation for a knowledge place.
I am not comfortable with the (hopefully ficticious) "enforcement" activities some here have allegedly started - and I don't think using terms like "Bat Team West" to describe them and their activities cast any kind of good light on this board. No disrespect intended to any "team" member, and being a member of a "team" may not be a bad thing in and of itself - but using labels like that for alleged activities that may in themselves be outside the pale of official law enforcement can have a bad influence on how others see this board.
With that in mind, I myself have added to the BS level here on occasion - when in a quirky mood. I don't see any harm in a few "slap shots", but in the "Lounge" - I kinda thought that was what it was all about - and don't take it too seriously.
Anyway, my 2 pesos worth. I have learned a great deal here, reading the board and corresponding with board members on many, many topics. I was away for some time, but now that I am back here, I hope it remains.
Jack
This board is not for selling/buying; however, having said that, I believe that I trust memebers of this board to be truthful and forthright in dealings. I have had several trades/swaps with people here, and all went very well - I think in great part because the people here are interested and usually knowledgeable on the subjects of communications/radios, or are just getting into it and we can help them out.
I think a forum for saying it went good/bad FOR ONLY TRADES INITIATED BETWEEN AND AMONG BOARD MEMEBERS should be here.
We are not here to police eBay nor enforce eBay rules. I have had good/bad luck on eBay, but here is not the place to whine about it.
As far as the moderators go, I think there is enough to do to keep this board running and as informative as it is without the added work load to keep an eBay forum (whatever form it takes) under control. If we start some kind of "rating" system, then it seems like this just becomes another buy/sell board - and it looses all reputation for a knowledge place.
I am not comfortable with the (hopefully ficticious) "enforcement" activities some here have allegedly started - and I don't think using terms like "Bat Team West" to describe them and their activities cast any kind of good light on this board. No disrespect intended to any "team" member, and being a member of a "team" may not be a bad thing in and of itself - but using labels like that for alleged activities that may in themselves be outside the pale of official law enforcement can have a bad influence on how others see this board.
With that in mind, I myself have added to the BS level here on occasion - when in a quirky mood. I don't see any harm in a few "slap shots", but in the "Lounge" - I kinda thought that was what it was all about - and don't take it too seriously.
Anyway, my 2 pesos worth. I have learned a great deal here, reading the board and corresponding with board members on many, many topics. I was away for some time, but now that I am back here, I hope it remains.
Jack
****************************************
****************************************
****************************************
Batboard Members,
I would go with banning all links to ebay. I usually keep a fairly low profile on this board, offering assistance when I am able to offer it. But, I must say, there seems to be an general increase in the number of non-relevant posts in some of the forums that waste time and bandwith.
Another idea, how about a Batboard probationary period (kind of what the fire department does) to help eliminate or at least discount some of the scammers and non-professional type people (as Monty would say).
I agree with Alex as well, perhaps this probationary period could be tied into total # of posts in Non-Lounge forums.
Not an easy solution, but something that needs to be addressed. This board is getting more and more popular and can and has attracted unsavory characters as of recent. Just like AOL did, when they started getting big, we need to begin a more intensive screening process and some sort of punitive system for dealing with people who insist on being counter productive to our mission.
I would go with banning all links to ebay. I usually keep a fairly low profile on this board, offering assistance when I am able to offer it. But, I must say, there seems to be an general increase in the number of non-relevant posts in some of the forums that waste time and bandwith.
Another idea, how about a Batboard probationary period (kind of what the fire department does) to help eliminate or at least discount some of the scammers and non-professional type people (as Monty would say).
I agree with Alex as well, perhaps this probationary period could be tied into total # of posts in Non-Lounge forums.
Not an easy solution, but something that needs to be addressed. This board is getting more and more popular and can and has attracted unsavory characters as of recent. Just like AOL did, when they started getting big, we need to begin a more intensive screening process and some sort of punitive system for dealing with people who insist on being counter productive to our mission.
Chris
Not much to add that hasn't been said above, but I will agree about the eBay thing to 90%.
I agree that lately there have been some real not-needed eBay links, however there have been some showing some real oddball/rare to find equipment that may not have been easily located by normal means, and has a real purpose. Those I don't think should be banned, and maybe kept in a certain and/or new forum that may be listed.
I don't think that it would be wrong or bad for someone asking if a certain radio will work as listed. A thread such as this is what I am talking about http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=13245 Simple, right to the point and stayed on topic. It did not get into a free for all such as http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... watchbuddy.
As for the "Batlabs West", if such a topic appeared I must have missed it. I am aware of the Batlabs Northeast postings, and if anyone actually thought that was serious....well....some people may not realize that it was humor only. Yes, you are allowed to have some fun here too.
As for a rating system...I dunno. Boat is still out. As shown with eBay, it can easily be abused no matter where. I would say a written requried feedback would be more helpful than a number system.
I agree that lately there have been some real not-needed eBay links, however there have been some showing some real oddball/rare to find equipment that may not have been easily located by normal means, and has a real purpose. Those I don't think should be banned, and maybe kept in a certain and/or new forum that may be listed.
I don't think that it would be wrong or bad for someone asking if a certain radio will work as listed. A thread such as this is what I am talking about http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?t=13245 Simple, right to the point and stayed on topic. It did not get into a free for all such as http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... watchbuddy.
As for the "Batlabs West", if such a topic appeared I must have missed it. I am aware of the Batlabs Northeast postings, and if anyone actually thought that was serious....well....some people may not realize that it was humor only. Yes, you are allowed to have some fun here too.
As for a rating system...I dunno. Boat is still out. As shown with eBay, it can easily be abused no matter where. I would say a written requried feedback would be more helpful than a number system.
Lowband radio. The original and non-complicated wide area interoperable communications system
I don't have a resolution myself about this, but the post about our NH friend help save me from trading a radio, and not getting anything in return for it. I should have never tried to trade outside of ebay in the first place, but as soon as I saw the name it set up a red flag. There are some circumstances where someone is habitual and it is handy to have the warning from others who have had problems.
I do think some kind of rating system would not be a bad idea though. One of the other forums I have used has a restriction that requires someone to be registered for 5 days before they post so people search before asking a question. Sometimes people figure it is easier to ask than look for the answer first instead of wasting bandwith. Maybe something to think about.
I do think some kind of rating system would not be a bad idea though. One of the other forums I have used has a restriction that requires someone to be registered for 5 days before they post so people search before asking a question. Sometimes people figure it is easier to ask than look for the answer first instead of wasting bandwith. Maybe something to think about.
My opinion is as follows.....
1. eBay links can be posted ONLY if they are for your auctions....no more"Hey look at this cool piece of equipment no one in their right mind would buy"....
2. Admin/Moderator review for new members. Including verifiable addresses, Name, phone number....etc.
3. The sticky topic for those who want to warn against eBay sellers...if there is a way to block replies...do it...if not...everyone has to make a concerted effort to NOT reply. Take care of it in a PM
4. Member feedback ratings....bad idea...look at the crap that goes on in the eBay forums....The BatBoard forum feedback is fine the way it is.
5. Stricter punishment for newbies posting RSS links and such....
1. eBay links can be posted ONLY if they are for your auctions....no more"Hey look at this cool piece of equipment no one in their right mind would buy"....
2. Admin/Moderator review for new members. Including verifiable addresses, Name, phone number....etc.
3. The sticky topic for those who want to warn against eBay sellers...if there is a way to block replies...do it...if not...everyone has to make a concerted effort to NOT reply. Take care of it in a PM
4. Member feedback ratings....bad idea...look at the crap that goes on in the eBay forums....The BatBoard forum feedback is fine the way it is.
5. Stricter punishment for newbies posting RSS links and such....
JAYMZ
"Mom and dad say I should make my life an example of the principles I believe in. But every time I do, they tell me to stop it."
Calvin
"Mom and dad say I should make my life an example of the principles I believe in. But every time I do, they tell me to stop it."
Calvin
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larryepage
- Posts: 221
- Joined: Tue Jan 15, 2002 4:00 pm
Slight Refinement to My Comments
To sort of build on comments entered so far...How about leaving memberships similar to what they are now for those who just post and read from the informational columns, but require a verifiable address and telephone number before allowing selling or feedback priviledges.
I don't know that could be made to work or if even the known honest sellers would be willing to do it, but it's something to think about, given what appear to be our current inclinations...
I don't know that could be made to work or if even the known honest sellers would be willing to do it, but it's something to think about, given what appear to be our current inclinations...
Larry Page
W5LEP
FCC GROL
W5LEP
FCC GROL
All references/adds for eBay items should be banned. Also if someone is offering for sale here, it should be exclusive to this board, not posted everywhere else..e-bay..!
We must remember anyone can "hide" behind their keyboard, so know who you are dealing with. The existing feedback fourm does a good job.
As for BatTeam West, that is a group of fellow BatBoard members out west who work together solving TECHINCIAL problems for others. It, BTW, does not do any "enforcement".
I am always available to go and help others in the west aera.
Will
We must remember anyone can "hide" behind their keyboard, so know who you are dealing with. The existing feedback fourm does a good job.
As for BatTeam West, that is a group of fellow BatBoard members out west who work together solving TECHINCIAL problems for others. It, BTW, does not do any "enforcement".
I am always available to go and help others in the west aera.
Will
-
ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
Well here are my ideals on the whole thing and it will piss some people off, maybe an admin also.
I have been coming to this site and this board long before it was even at http://www.batlabs.com
I remember having to type in some wierd address to get to it which I think include the word pyscho net or pyscho fish or something to that effect. Now I am not saying that I want some special treatment or something for that. What I am saying is this:
- When batlabs first come to be back in the late 90's I veiwed it as a great place and source for Motorola knowledge and information. You were able to come and ask questions and view info and get what you needed.
Now it seems that when ever you post something and try and tap some info through a post you get flames as to why you should not use this or why are you doing that, that wayor use this cause this is the only good thing there is nothing else.
I asked for help on the product and information on it not why as to the reason I am using this item. Hey ask anyone in the field of radios for a living and they will say customers are always looking for something for free. My point being with this is what is the purpose of going and having login's as well as user passwords if they serve no good. It never asked me for any personal information I had to give in order for me to be checked out. The boards view got skewed in my opinion as well as others I have talked to in the radio business over here in the twin cities.
- As for the EBay thing we should have a space on the board for EBay info if you want that is CLEARED MONTHLY just like the selling page. I am getting tired of buyers bidding, winning, and running, as well as sellers getting screwed. I personally think it is a good ideal for Motorola seasoned vets to help steer the young newer Motorola youth to stay away from that buyer or seller. Yes I am guilty of posting EBay links in the forum my BAD. But EBay does not even police there own board anymore. I think it would be a handy tool to maybe have a section or a place where people can go to advise other members about bad deals of selling through here as well as on EBay.
To use some rules to guide this process I would say only people involved in the auction ( regardless if they are seller or buyer )can post the info, no he said she said BS (it's called heresay and last time I check it will not stand up in court so why should it here.) Or the other option is for the admin, mod to put there foot down and make a stance boom no more EBay items or links, or you can but you must follow these rules. (You stick to those rules for software make one and stick to it here.)
- As for membership and names the rating thing is going to be hard to do in anyway shape or form. If a guy posts here once in a great while and they are a good honest sincere person but since they do not have much to say or ask they get lumped in with the bads ones. I think that would not be a good move on the boards part.
As I remember this was once a great place to come post your ideals and hints and kinks/mods about big /\/\. But once again the (in my opinion) the view got skewed a little so I say this:
Admin/Mods put your foot down about EBay. If you run this board or make a money donation then you have a say and can make a choice. If you do not support the board or make donations then you have no say.
If you are going to use the User Name and Password (now that it is working good) then make some required info and verify it to make posts on here. Require a good/checked out name, address, telephone number, and if they say they have a business or something then maybe check on that to. Of course do not sell off the info to make money.
Also make them electronically sign a rules and conduct of the board. Hey alex how many times in the last month have you had to edit posts?????????
Regardless of what I say I do like this board but I do hope that it can get these issues it is facing cleared up. I also think the only way you can effectivly clear them up is by asking the people who are in charge of this board as well as members who pay into this board. This is almost in a way a orgainization so let's make it and keep it a good one.
We have a good cause, so let's make sure we do not forget that cause!!!
(P.S. I am not saying that we have lost or forgotten that cause I just do not want to ever see it happen.)
I have been coming to this site and this board long before it was even at http://www.batlabs.com
I remember having to type in some wierd address to get to it which I think include the word pyscho net or pyscho fish or something to that effect. Now I am not saying that I want some special treatment or something for that. What I am saying is this:
- When batlabs first come to be back in the late 90's I veiwed it as a great place and source for Motorola knowledge and information. You were able to come and ask questions and view info and get what you needed.
Now it seems that when ever you post something and try and tap some info through a post you get flames as to why you should not use this or why are you doing that, that wayor use this cause this is the only good thing there is nothing else.
I asked for help on the product and information on it not why as to the reason I am using this item. Hey ask anyone in the field of radios for a living and they will say customers are always looking for something for free. My point being with this is what is the purpose of going and having login's as well as user passwords if they serve no good. It never asked me for any personal information I had to give in order for me to be checked out. The boards view got skewed in my opinion as well as others I have talked to in the radio business over here in the twin cities.
- As for the EBay thing we should have a space on the board for EBay info if you want that is CLEARED MONTHLY just like the selling page. I am getting tired of buyers bidding, winning, and running, as well as sellers getting screwed. I personally think it is a good ideal for Motorola seasoned vets to help steer the young newer Motorola youth to stay away from that buyer or seller. Yes I am guilty of posting EBay links in the forum my BAD. But EBay does not even police there own board anymore. I think it would be a handy tool to maybe have a section or a place where people can go to advise other members about bad deals of selling through here as well as on EBay.
To use some rules to guide this process I would say only people involved in the auction ( regardless if they are seller or buyer )can post the info, no he said she said BS (it's called heresay and last time I check it will not stand up in court so why should it here.) Or the other option is for the admin, mod to put there foot down and make a stance boom no more EBay items or links, or you can but you must follow these rules. (You stick to those rules for software make one and stick to it here.)
- As for membership and names the rating thing is going to be hard to do in anyway shape or form. If a guy posts here once in a great while and they are a good honest sincere person but since they do not have much to say or ask they get lumped in with the bads ones. I think that would not be a good move on the boards part.
As I remember this was once a great place to come post your ideals and hints and kinks/mods about big /\/\. But once again the (in my opinion) the view got skewed a little so I say this:
Admin/Mods put your foot down about EBay. If you run this board or make a money donation then you have a say and can make a choice. If you do not support the board or make donations then you have no say.
If you are going to use the User Name and Password (now that it is working good) then make some required info and verify it to make posts on here. Require a good/checked out name, address, telephone number, and if they say they have a business or something then maybe check on that to. Of course do not sell off the info to make money.
Also make them electronically sign a rules and conduct of the board. Hey alex how many times in the last month have you had to edit posts?????????
Regardless of what I say I do like this board but I do hope that it can get these issues it is facing cleared up. I also think the only way you can effectivly clear them up is by asking the people who are in charge of this board as well as members who pay into this board. This is almost in a way a orgainization so let's make it and keep it a good one.
We have a good cause, so let's make sure we do not forget that cause!!!
(P.S. I am not saying that we have lost or forgotten that cause I just do not want to ever see it happen.)
" ah the fatman made a funny!" - Stewie from the family guy.
I went to the doctor and all he did was just suck blood. Never go to Dr Acula - M. Hedberg
I went to the doctor and all he did was just suck blood. Never go to Dr Acula - M. Hedberg
I don't have a problem with people posting ebay links personally, I know of one right now that I would like to post to see if anyone knows what it is. (motorola stand alone programmer, never heard of one) for example. As long as it pertains to equipment questions or rare items I find it interesting.
As for a feedback system, it sound like a real nightmare to me. I can see people fighting for the removal of comments etc... It seems that it could get real ugly real quick.
mancow
As for a feedback system, it sound like a real nightmare to me. I can see people fighting for the removal of comments etc... It seems that it could get real ugly real quick.
mancow
Well as for the "Getting Scammed on Ebay" posts, If the deal takes place on Ebay then use the Ebay feedback system, that's why they have it.
As for a rating system, I beleive it would be unfair to switch to that and a lot of folks end up getting a better rating at the start then others who have also been here for a while. If a rating system is started then everyone currently registered at the start of the system should start with the same rating and go from there, unless they already have a lot of negetive things about them in the feedback forum. Altough Ebay links are useful to identify and item the same can be accomplished by emailing the person with the auction and getting any part numbers from the item being sold and post the part numbers here and someone will be able to tell you what it is. And on a side note about the items for sale, they should be in the for sale section . If someone asks about how to build a maxtrac cable then that means they want to build a maxtrac cable and they don't want a guy to hop in and offer to sell them one for x dolars because it's higher quaility then what they can make on their own. if they wanted to buy one they would post in the for sale section they want to buy one, same for the guy or girls who would pop in and offer to sell the guy one. For sale forum is for selling and listing items you want to buy. As for contact info , that's not a bad idea, but if a guy won't give you any contact info when you first start the deal then stay away, they probably have something to hide. A little common sense on the members parts can take care of a lot of these problems.
Thats all I have .
Frank
As for a rating system, I beleive it would be unfair to switch to that and a lot of folks end up getting a better rating at the start then others who have also been here for a while. If a rating system is started then everyone currently registered at the start of the system should start with the same rating and go from there, unless they already have a lot of negetive things about them in the feedback forum. Altough Ebay links are useful to identify and item the same can be accomplished by emailing the person with the auction and getting any part numbers from the item being sold and post the part numbers here and someone will be able to tell you what it is. And on a side note about the items for sale, they should be in the for sale section . If someone asks about how to build a maxtrac cable then that means they want to build a maxtrac cable and they don't want a guy to hop in and offer to sell them one for x dolars because it's higher quaility then what they can make on their own. if they wanted to buy one they would post in the for sale section they want to buy one, same for the guy or girls who would pop in and offer to sell the guy one. For sale forum is for selling and listing items you want to buy. As for contact info , that's not a bad idea, but if a guy won't give you any contact info when you first start the deal then stay away, they probably have something to hide. A little common sense on the members parts can take care of a lot of these problems.
Thats all I have .
Frank
My stand:
I think ebay ad's should stay. I've found some nice auctions through the forum that I didn't see while searching.
New users should have to provide their ISP email. This is the email address of you at your internet service provider. This way scammers coming to post new ad's on here would have to provide their ISP email which is the easiest to trace. No more "cheerchic8795@hotmail.com," instead the actuall email address of the person, "jdoe@earthlink.net." And of course it should be verified.
I think ebay ad's should stay. I've found some nice auctions through the forum that I didn't see while searching.
New users should have to provide their ISP email. This is the email address of you at your internet service provider. This way scammers coming to post new ad's on here would have to provide their ISP email which is the easiest to trace. No more "cheerchic8795@hotmail.com," instead the actuall email address of the person, "jdoe@earthlink.net." And of course it should be verified.
Hi:
I would like to Clarify the member rating system I am
thinking of.
1. Seasoned , Professional persons who have a VERIFIABLE
Name , Address, Phone number, and any Commercial / CET
Licenses would be recognized with some sort of [ Icon ] which
would be tied to a list on the Forum.
2. Newcomers / Others which chose to keep hidden / secret / or other wise may wish to not want personal information would be assigned a different [ Icon ]
3. Persons who make a considerable Contribution to the Forum
may get a [ Few Icons ] and perhaps a Number
This is just a small way of saying [ Thank You ] to the persons
who make sacrifice for the benefit of the whole !
4. This has NOTHING to do with EBAY or there sales, just a simple way of letting [ Newer ] persons who may logon to the system, know whom they may be dealing with.
At the moment, sometimes its tough to tell if you are dealing
with a 10 year Old or a Retired person.
Note:
I am personally working with a couple of persons at this very moment over a Forum Trade issue ( at my OWN EXPENSE ) one of which not only got Scammed once, but twice, and
it was from a [ New ] ( and old ) Batforum Member.
The fellow who got Scammed...He is NOT a Happy Member !
This fellow may not have gotten Scammed if the batforum member
had some sort of Reference Icon
5. I will freely admit I wish to keep as many Professionals here
as Possible ( even if I may dislike ) there point of view. Not everyone is perfect, and neither am I.
6. One thing for SURE, the Statistics prove upcoming Growth
is right around the corner, and like it or not, MORE Rules and
Guidelines may be required.
I do NOT want ro see a 10 page disclosurer, just simple
easy to follow guidelines. Even with the Current Rules,
some persons either do not read or understand them.
For the older group: Remember the Trunked Radio Forum?
Anyhow, ALL ideas I am sure will be appreciated, We all know it's a VERY SENSITIVE subject, but again, the persons who support this forum with [ Their ] Monies, Time, and effort are not Stupid and are very aware of what is going on.
Who would have ever guessed the Forum would have reached
such popularity in a short amount of time.
Anyhow, hope that makes the Batboard Forum Member Rating suggestion easier to understand.
Monty ( Is a Icon similar to that hard to see ? or Decode? )
You get the idea
I would like to Clarify the member rating system I am
thinking of.
1. Seasoned , Professional persons who have a VERIFIABLE
Name , Address, Phone number, and any Commercial / CET
Licenses would be recognized with some sort of [ Icon ] which
would be tied to a list on the Forum.
2. Newcomers / Others which chose to keep hidden / secret / or other wise may wish to not want personal information would be assigned a different [ Icon ]
3. Persons who make a considerable Contribution to the Forum
may get a [ Few Icons ] and perhaps a Number
This is just a small way of saying [ Thank You ] to the persons
who make sacrifice for the benefit of the whole !
4. This has NOTHING to do with EBAY or there sales, just a simple way of letting [ Newer ] persons who may logon to the system, know whom they may be dealing with.
At the moment, sometimes its tough to tell if you are dealing
with a 10 year Old or a Retired person.
Note:
I am personally working with a couple of persons at this very moment over a Forum Trade issue ( at my OWN EXPENSE ) one of which not only got Scammed once, but twice, and
it was from a [ New ] ( and old ) Batforum Member.
The fellow who got Scammed...He is NOT a Happy Member !
This fellow may not have gotten Scammed if the batforum member
had some sort of Reference Icon
5. I will freely admit I wish to keep as many Professionals here
as Possible ( even if I may dislike ) there point of view. Not everyone is perfect, and neither am I.
6. One thing for SURE, the Statistics prove upcoming Growth
is right around the corner, and like it or not, MORE Rules and
Guidelines may be required.
I do NOT want ro see a 10 page disclosurer, just simple
easy to follow guidelines. Even with the Current Rules,
some persons either do not read or understand them.
For the older group: Remember the Trunked Radio Forum?
Anyhow, ALL ideas I am sure will be appreciated, We all know it's a VERY SENSITIVE subject, but again, the persons who support this forum with [ Their ] Monies, Time, and effort are not Stupid and are very aware of what is going on.
Who would have ever guessed the Forum would have reached
such popularity in a short amount of time.
Anyhow, hope that makes the Batboard Forum Member Rating suggestion easier to understand.
Monty
( Is a Icon similar to that hard to see ? or Decode? )You get the idea
Feedback
As a member that has been recently scammed here I would like to add my views. I like the ideas that Monty has put forth.
I believe ebay links should be allowed with restictions. I would like to see a rating system of fellow users. I let my guard down when I made a swap on this board. ( My fault no one elses) I know the extent of the knowlege and professionalism of the people who frequent this board and trusted someone because they were a member here. I should have checked further.
I would like to thank the members who have helped.
I would aslo like to thank all the people who make this board possible.
David Epley, N9CZV
Communications Supervisor
Navopache Electric Co-op
Show Low, Az
I believe ebay links should be allowed with restictions. I would like to see a rating system of fellow users. I let my guard down when I made a swap on this board. ( My fault no one elses) I know the extent of the knowlege and professionalism of the people who frequent this board and trusted someone because they were a member here. I should have checked further.
I would like to thank the members who have helped.
I would aslo like to thank all the people who make this board possible.
David Epley, N9CZV
Communications Supervisor
Navopache Electric Co-op
Show Low, Az
I thank everyone for taking the time to go through and post their feelings on the subject. I think people are on the fence on a lot of this stuff. But I'm happy to see a lot of the people who do post here almost everyday - as well as afew who don't weigh in with their oppinions. They are valued.
I too agree, that it would be restrictive to only allow people who have built up a reputation on the board (by number of posts... too bad the board can't determine if they are useful or not) or by verifying names and addresses.
There's a few technical glitches, as well as some person things I'd like to interject into peoples minds.
1) It's a lot for one person to follow up with each individual to check out names, addresses, and other information. Also, for the sake of some information, I want people to feel that they can post some stuff with a reasonable level of freedom without it coming back in smacking them in the
. I think you can understand and value that. Most people who are regulars on the board do know who I am on some level - infact, i've got a number of you on speed dial on my cell phone (ahh, free long distance). That aside - I know I don't have the time to personally go through and verify who is who. I don't think we need to resort to that level yet. If there is a couple people on the board who have the time and want to step forward as deal brokers almost like escrow, so be it - that could help solve a number of problems.
2) The software that runs this board can only have so many features added or hacked into it. Adding addresses, phone numbers, and such to a database would be very extensive and time consuming. I really do believe that people are almost too trusting these days with sending stuff around, and not doing their homework. I think if we did our best to do our homework, I think a lot of problems would be solved. As stated above, add a cost of $20 to what you want to buy, and use that money towards a phone bill to call the person and talk with thim. I really can't stress that enough. Yes, I've gotten lots of stuff for steals, but when it's too good to be true, I can usually pick up the phone and verify the information.
3) I really think that ebay will be OK if people keep the BS to the Bat Lounge, and us [Monty, Bat, Elroy, myself] do a good job watching the other forums for it, then that will be fine. I've been reluctant to turn on forum pruning, as I don't want the board to start self deleting stuff, I guess it makes me kinda queezy to start with. I'll have to run some experiments on a test board on my system and try and make sure all will be ok. eBay links will be permitted in other forums as long as someone has a question about an item that is more in the spirit of the board.
4) Grandfathering. There would be way too many people here that would be grandfathered in who could be as good as the next idiot who appears on the board. So, with that in mind, it'll also be hard to go back and get people who have already registered to enter all that info, and re-approve people. I can also look into an admin will allow or deny memberships, as well as revising the clause you see when you first sign up. Right now, you have to confirm your email address (and I know for some it's been a minor issue) so that at least ensures that people who joined (after the new board software was installed - not the old black/green/gray version, but the new one with all the fancy features) have valid emails.
I'm going to let this thread run for about a week and see where things go. I'd like people to stop and think before they do post on some of these subjects. Although none of them are policy or cut in stone, I think we can all be adults and play nice.
When it comes time, I'll come up with a statement describing how things are going to change and submit that to bat - and see what he thinks. If it's in keeping with a lot of what direction he wants the board to go in, then I'll post a poll with a simple yes/no vote, and people can vote for a change.
I do want your feedback, no matter how negitive or positive it might be - all it does is help make this a better community of people.
-Alex
I too agree, that it would be restrictive to only allow people who have built up a reputation on the board (by number of posts... too bad the board can't determine if they are useful or not) or by verifying names and addresses.
There's a few technical glitches, as well as some person things I'd like to interject into peoples minds.
1) It's a lot for one person to follow up with each individual to check out names, addresses, and other information. Also, for the sake of some information, I want people to feel that they can post some stuff with a reasonable level of freedom without it coming back in smacking them in the
. I think you can understand and value that. Most people who are regulars on the board do know who I am on some level - infact, i've got a number of you on speed dial on my cell phone (ahh, free long distance). That aside - I know I don't have the time to personally go through and verify who is who. I don't think we need to resort to that level yet. If there is a couple people on the board who have the time and want to step forward as deal brokers almost like escrow, so be it - that could help solve a number of problems. 2) The software that runs this board can only have so many features added or hacked into it. Adding addresses, phone numbers, and such to a database would be very extensive and time consuming. I really do believe that people are almost too trusting these days with sending stuff around, and not doing their homework. I think if we did our best to do our homework, I think a lot of problems would be solved. As stated above, add a cost of $20 to what you want to buy, and use that money towards a phone bill to call the person and talk with thim. I really can't stress that enough. Yes, I've gotten lots of stuff for steals, but when it's too good to be true, I can usually pick up the phone and verify the information.
3) I really think that ebay will be OK if people keep the BS to the Bat Lounge, and us [Monty, Bat, Elroy, myself] do a good job watching the other forums for it, then that will be fine. I've been reluctant to turn on forum pruning, as I don't want the board to start self deleting stuff, I guess it makes me kinda queezy to start with. I'll have to run some experiments on a test board on my system and try and make sure all will be ok. eBay links will be permitted in other forums as long as someone has a question about an item that is more in the spirit of the board.
4) Grandfathering. There would be way too many people here that would be grandfathered in who could be as good as the next idiot who appears on the board. So, with that in mind, it'll also be hard to go back and get people who have already registered to enter all that info, and re-approve people. I can also look into an admin will allow or deny memberships, as well as revising the clause you see when you first sign up. Right now, you have to confirm your email address (and I know for some it's been a minor issue) so that at least ensures that people who joined (after the new board software was installed - not the old black/green/gray version, but the new one with all the fancy features) have valid emails.
I'm going to let this thread run for about a week and see where things go. I'd like people to stop and think before they do post on some of these subjects. Although none of them are policy or cut in stone, I think we can all be adults and play nice.
When it comes time, I'll come up with a statement describing how things are going to change and submit that to bat - and see what he thinks. If it's in keeping with a lot of what direction he wants the board to go in, then I'll post a poll with a simple yes/no vote, and people can vote for a change.
I do want your feedback, no matter how negitive or positive it might be - all it does is help make this a better community of people.
-Alex
my 2 cents
I like the idea of some sort of rating for sellers. This is not ebay, I think that it is only fair that if someone wants to sell an item on this board that they have to provide to the moderators a valid verifiable name, address and telephone number. And even though I have been burned by someone who posted here I still have faith in the people who are members because they have earned it.
I for one value the information I find here on BAT and I trust the people who post on this board because for the most part they are here because of their love for this hobby and to not rip people off.
I also agree that ebay adds should be limited to rare finds or not be here at all.
I for one value the information I find here on BAT and I trust the people who post on this board because for the most part they are here because of their love for this hobby and to not rip people off.
I also agree that ebay adds should be limited to rare finds or not be here at all.
Last edited by Nand on Sun Jan 18, 2004 7:13 pm, edited 1 time in total.
i agree with just adding $20 to the price of the transaction to verify the identification of the seller. why dont we work on some sort of reference system. if somebody is selling something gives a few references to the buyer. eg past trades,sales,relative or friend etc. for some that may be hard but even over here in australia i could provide references for deals done here and in america. at least by doing this if something goes sour we have some type of locating mechanism.
-
Andy Brinkley
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 376
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: FMR80D and a Motrac with Scan
Feedback
OK, as a "lurker" on the list who pops out when someone has a question on programming the older radios, here are my $0.02 worth.
1. Work up some kind of "rating" system that is specific to the BatBoard for the people here that don't deal on E-bay.
2. Come up with a "sticky" for a list of standard questions that a newbie would need to ask a potential buyer / seller. Monty used to have a pretty good one. The 1st rule is a verifiable telephone number (published in a local phone directory) with a matching address. No address, No phone, no deal. The second thing to ask is for a verifiable address in a Federal Licensing Database. I'm guessing that many of the members on this board have an amateur or commercial license (or both).
3. The 2nd rule is COMMUNICATION !! You can never have two much communication between the buyer and seller.
4. My compliments to the Administrators, the BatBoard is one of the most professional boards that I have seen, bar none
1. Work up some kind of "rating" system that is specific to the BatBoard for the people here that don't deal on E-bay.
2. Come up with a "sticky" for a list of standard questions that a newbie would need to ask a potential buyer / seller. Monty used to have a pretty good one. The 1st rule is a verifiable telephone number (published in a local phone directory) with a matching address. No address, No phone, no deal. The second thing to ask is for a verifiable address in a Federal Licensing Database. I'm guessing that many of the members on this board have an amateur or commercial license (or both).
3. The 2nd rule is COMMUNICATION !! You can never have two much communication between the buyer and seller.
4. My compliments to the Administrators, the BatBoard is one of the most professional boards that I have seen, bar none
Andy / NC4AB
-
RESCUE161
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 2062
- Joined: Wed Jan 16, 2002 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: Too many!
I think the 'feedback' thing would be great.
I too remember coming here long before it was called the 'batboard'. It was more of a problem to post links back then than it is now. I don't remember seeing as many E-Bay adds back then. I am guilty of posting adds from E-Bay and I understand the problems with posting extra links. I promise to stop all together.
I owe most all of my radio knowledge to this board, thank you. I was quite green when I started and I did 'stumble' a few times (and still do).
I respect a lot of members on the board, but there are a few that I will overlook just due to their posts. If some of these posts are not allowed, then maybe more 'useful' information will be passed instead of the 'Hey, look at this...' auctions.
I'll be here to help if I can.
Scott
I too remember coming here long before it was called the 'batboard'. It was more of a problem to post links back then than it is now. I don't remember seeing as many E-Bay adds back then. I am guilty of posting adds from E-Bay and I understand the problems with posting extra links. I promise to stop all together.
I owe most all of my radio knowledge to this board, thank you. I was quite green when I started and I did 'stumble' a few times (and still do).
I respect a lot of members on the board, but there are a few that I will overlook just due to their posts. If some of these posts are not allowed, then maybe more 'useful' information will be passed instead of the 'Hey, look at this...' auctions.
I'll be here to help if I can.
Scott
I agree with a rating system and am willing to offer info on my position certifications etc. I like the idea of icons for verifiable skills, knowlege, etc
Thats why I post my papers on the wall of my shop. As for having to grandfather everyone in, no problem, Do it ! Then if someone wants to contribute their credentials for more recognition, so be it. I would like to see Bay posts minimized although the ocasional rare item would be nice to know about. I think this could be controled by just not allowing the
link to be embedded. If something is really worth letting folks know about then describe it in the post along with the search criteria on how to find it on the bay and the interested party can find it themselves. If they are that interested then they will most likely be "e-bay literate" and can find the item. May have more suggestions but those were on the top of my head right now. Phrawg
Thats why I post my papers on the wall of my shop. As for having to grandfather everyone in, no problem, Do it ! Then if someone wants to contribute their credentials for more recognition, so be it. I would like to see Bay posts minimized although the ocasional rare item would be nice to know about. I think this could be controled by just not allowing the
link to be embedded. If something is really worth letting folks know about then describe it in the post along with the search criteria on how to find it on the bay and the interested party can find it themselves. If they are that interested then they will most likely be "e-bay literate" and can find the item. May have more suggestions but those were on the top of my head right now. Phrawg
BBbzzzzz... ZAP.. GULP !!! ahhhh GOOD fly !
You get to know who knows their stuff pretty quick, but a simple rating number icon would be nice, but it would need to be done by those who know their stuff too, so I guess if Monty is volunteering...........
As to ebay links etc, sometimes they are nice to help identify a rig etc. I wouldn't want to scarafice that with a "rule", but maybe we need to remind folks every so often to stay on track.....
All in all, the board is great! But I agree with Monty, we don't want to loose the knowleable people........
As to ebay links etc, sometimes they are nice to help identify a rig etc. I wouldn't want to scarafice that with a "rule", but maybe we need to remind folks every so often to stay on track.....
All in all, the board is great! But I agree with Monty, we don't want to loose the knowleable people........
Last edited by Max-trac on Thu Jan 30, 2003 3:14 pm, edited 1 time in total.
1. I don't buy stuff on eBay, and therefore the links to eBay sites don't bother me (or usually get my attention).
2. I don't usually buy things from strangers, either, though some of the regulars here don't really feel like strangers.
3. In part for the foregoing reasons, I was unaware that there wa a problem of people being defrauded by sales that originated on this board, but if there is such a problem, it can be quickly solved by doing two things:
First, deny access to the Hardware for Sale section to anyone except "cleared" users. To be cleared, a user would have to supply his name, residence address and phone, and other identifying information (which can be kept private by the administrators, but is a hedge against anonymity).
Second, establish it a policy that no one can post items for sale on this board unless they accept that incoporated into every such contract of sale will be a 30-day no-reasons-needed return policy. Cleared users may signify their acceptance of the incorporation by reference of such a term into their contract of sale by utilizing the site. I have little doubt that this would be recognized by every state in the Lower 48, with the possible exception of Louisiana.
An additional thought: there is from time to time (though more rarely than one would think) some bad information posted on this site. I have in mind the guy who recommended that one could extend the life of flooded cell lead/acid batteries by periodically fully discharging them (a quick way to destroy flooded cells). Until now, I wouldn't have thought the board administrators would have worried too much about the potential for harmful information to be on the board, since pretty much by definition, one has to accept advice from strangers at one's own risk. If that is so, then arrangements for private sales between posters is sort of in the same class, no?
2. I don't usually buy things from strangers, either, though some of the regulars here don't really feel like strangers.
3. In part for the foregoing reasons, I was unaware that there wa a problem of people being defrauded by sales that originated on this board, but if there is such a problem, it can be quickly solved by doing two things:
First, deny access to the Hardware for Sale section to anyone except "cleared" users. To be cleared, a user would have to supply his name, residence address and phone, and other identifying information (which can be kept private by the administrators, but is a hedge against anonymity).
Second, establish it a policy that no one can post items for sale on this board unless they accept that incoporated into every such contract of sale will be a 30-day no-reasons-needed return policy. Cleared users may signify their acceptance of the incorporation by reference of such a term into their contract of sale by utilizing the site. I have little doubt that this would be recognized by every state in the Lower 48, with the possible exception of Louisiana.
An additional thought: there is from time to time (though more rarely than one would think) some bad information posted on this site. I have in mind the guy who recommended that one could extend the life of flooded cell lead/acid batteries by periodically fully discharging them (a quick way to destroy flooded cells). Until now, I wouldn't have thought the board administrators would have worried too much about the potential for harmful information to be on the board, since pretty much by definition, one has to accept advice from strangers at one's own risk. If that is so, then arrangements for private sales between posters is sort of in the same class, no?
I'm with RKG on this one. I guess there's something to be said for remaining blissfully ignorantRKG wrote:1. I don't buy stuff on eBay, and therefore the links to eBay sites don't bother me (or usually get my attention).
2. I don't usually buy things from strangers, either, though some of the regulars here don't really feel like strangers.
3. In part for the foregoing reasons, I was unaware that there wa a problem of people being defrauded by sales that originated on this board.
I ignore most Ebay threads beyond the first post, since 95% of them don't interest me. I think Alex in particular does a great job of administrating the board, and Monty does a good job moderating as well. I don't personally see the need for sweeping changes. If people wanna :o about Ebay, let them do it in the feedback/lounge areas. Or create an Ebay forum & let people go nuts. Assign an Ebay savvy volunteer or two to moderate it & forget about it.Todd
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sglass
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 2282
- Joined: Sat May 18, 2002 2:03 pm
- What radios do you own?: sonic screwdriver
my wacked out input
Ok here is my input
I can go along with have to state vague details of a transaction before posting in the for sale feed back forum. But we want to be careful not to let it turn into a rear end kissing competition. Lets face it, ebay feed back is lame. You know that person doesn't have a negative, but how many times have you seen A++++++++++++ bidder as feedback...that serves no purpose.
Warning about not batboard realated items (ebay and the like). I can see how could get out of hand, but the fact of the matter is that sometimes you need to warn the 2-way community.
Maybe a seperate forum for ebay related stuff?
Maybe another for reference checks?
Some people are paranoid about this. I am not, if someone wants to ask "Has anyone dealt with Seth Glass?" all the power to them. I have nothing to hide.
My first trade on the board was with Will. It took me a few days to be able to talk to him on the phone, but having spoken with him for close to an hour I had no problem in the least sending him out the radio for a trade.
On to for sale stuff. I can't see any negative with having to somehow verify identity before selling something. It will scare away some of the paranoid folks, but will keep away ALOT of the riff raff.
As to the attack of sale prices....
I used to hang out on subguns.com, the attacks on peopels for sale posts became outrageous. The forum ended up having to be changed so you couldn't reply to a forsale post. I'd like to think people can control themselves better than that.
As to controling who can enter. I don't agree with that at all. Almost comes across elitist.
If I come across scatterbrained it's because I've been at work for 12 hours, and I only have 3 hours of sleep.
Seth
I can go along with have to state vague details of a transaction before posting in the for sale feed back forum. But we want to be careful not to let it turn into a rear end kissing competition. Lets face it, ebay feed back is lame. You know that person doesn't have a negative, but how many times have you seen A++++++++++++ bidder as feedback...that serves no purpose.
Warning about not batboard realated items (ebay and the like). I can see how could get out of hand, but the fact of the matter is that sometimes you need to warn the 2-way community.
Maybe a seperate forum for ebay related stuff?
Maybe another for reference checks?
Some people are paranoid about this. I am not, if someone wants to ask "Has anyone dealt with Seth Glass?" all the power to them. I have nothing to hide.
My first trade on the board was with Will. It took me a few days to be able to talk to him on the phone, but having spoken with him for close to an hour I had no problem in the least sending him out the radio for a trade.
On to for sale stuff. I can't see any negative with having to somehow verify identity before selling something. It will scare away some of the paranoid folks, but will keep away ALOT of the riff raff.
As to the attack of sale prices....
I used to hang out on subguns.com, the attacks on peopels for sale posts became outrageous. The forum ended up having to be changed so you couldn't reply to a forsale post. I'd like to think people can control themselves better than that.
As to controling who can enter. I don't agree with that at all. Almost comes across elitist.
If I come across scatterbrained it's because I've been at work for 12 hours, and I only have 3 hours of sleep.
Seth
I don't see where there are any real changes needed. As far as a rating system is concerned, that's what the "For Sale Feedback Forum" is for. It's easy enough to do a keyword search on a user within the forum. This way, you'll get both the bad and the good, if there is any. Quite frankly, I don't think that prohibiting links to ebay auctions is prudent either. There are many reasons that people post auctions... maybe someone has found a good deal. Maybe someone has found exceptionally funny. And maybe it's a good way to help warn others on the board away from known scammers. As a community, I think these are all legitimate reasons to post the links. And whether you see it that way or not, that is what we are: a community. Of all the other mailing lists and message boards I subscribe to, there is no other like Batlabs. Nowhere else on the internet have I seen people from all over the world, from all walks of life, on a first name basis, with one common interest bringing them together. As such, we need to support each other as well as keep each other in line from time to time. As a community, we have grown by leaps and bounds, and continue to do so. Along with our successes, we have the pains to prove it.
The only thing that I would like to ask is that we maintain consistency and impartiality in the moderation of the board. It has been asked in the past, and I'd like to ask it again: When a moderator is required to edit a message in order to bring it into accordance with the rules of the board, I'd like to ask that the moderators edit only what's necessary, and that they indicate who did the editing. Also, occasional reminders to stay on topic wouldn't be so bad either. I'll be the first to admit that I'm guilty of egging-on a conversation in one direction or another. However, if a moderator had posted a reminder when they saw it going astray, I would have thought twice about what I was about to type. I understand what it's like to moderate a board as popular as this. It's not easy. The moderators are here to enforce the rules of the board and offer guidance where necessary. They should not be basing their decisions solely upon what they as 'conservatives' 'liberals' or 'moderates' deem inappropriate, but what the community and the rules of the board deem appropriate. I'm sorry, but if a 21 year old male college student thinks that a picture of Christina Aguilera half-dressed is offensive, and he's the only one who openly complains, where does the problem lay?
The only thing that I would like to ask is that we maintain consistency and impartiality in the moderation of the board. It has been asked in the past, and I'd like to ask it again: When a moderator is required to edit a message in order to bring it into accordance with the rules of the board, I'd like to ask that the moderators edit only what's necessary, and that they indicate who did the editing. Also, occasional reminders to stay on topic wouldn't be so bad either. I'll be the first to admit that I'm guilty of egging-on a conversation in one direction or another. However, if a moderator had posted a reminder when they saw it going astray, I would have thought twice about what I was about to type. I understand what it's like to moderate a board as popular as this. It's not easy. The moderators are here to enforce the rules of the board and offer guidance where necessary. They should not be basing their decisions solely upon what they as 'conservatives' 'liberals' or 'moderates' deem inappropriate, but what the community and the rules of the board deem appropriate. I'm sorry, but if a 21 year old male college student thinks that a picture of Christina Aguilera half-dressed is offensive, and he's the only one who openly complains, where does the problem lay?
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jnglmassiv
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 512
- Joined: Sun Feb 24, 2002 4:00 pm
I guess I don't see the problems that so many are complaining about.
1. Ebay ad postings have always been one of the things I enjoy reading most here on the forums. I'm amused by the errors, wowed by the deals, and grateful for the heads up on auctions I missed. If someone thinks that posting a RELEVANT auction is an ironclad endorsement for that item and seller, then they are really backwards about how Ebay or any person-to-person classified type ad works.
Trying to blame the board for a bad deal just doesn't hold true to me.
Irrelevant ads, bikini girl ads, auctions with cats and such are fine, but ONLY in the Lounge. If people are offended, a little message stating a PG-13 type disclaimer at the top of the Lounge may be the ticket.
2. There is a feedback forum that is probably underused. Look at the "SCAMMED BY >>>" type posts that we see all the time in forums OTHER than the FBF. If the problem is posting to the wrong forum, thats a problem that the mods are, I think, very good about moving or otherwise taking care of.
3. I think the icon system would be difficult to administrate. I also think that classifying users into pro, novice and newbies, or whatever would create an "us and them" elitist enviroment. If any board could make it happen, that would be us, but what are the gains?
The post count and just reading the archives will give an idea of the posting members' infomational and personal integrity that the reader can evaluate, not some mysterious rating or icon system. Plus, those in the "Bat Aristocrisy" will tend to get get the good ratings, I'm betting. You know, some of the best info I have ever rec'd was from "lurkers" who would not have great ratings under the proposed changes.
With some of the changes some are proposing, I don't think a paid, full-time BatEmployee (Alfred?, Robin?) could keep up with the administration and moderating.
To sum, I would recommend against any sweeping, overarching changes, particularily to member status identifiers. If anything, I would recommend an additional Ebay forum where ALL ebay feedback, auctions, etc are posted.
Strictly my personal opinions,
jngl "I like things just the way they are"
jnglmassiv@hotmail.com
1. Ebay ad postings have always been one of the things I enjoy reading most here on the forums. I'm amused by the errors, wowed by the deals, and grateful for the heads up on auctions I missed. If someone thinks that posting a RELEVANT auction is an ironclad endorsement for that item and seller, then they are really backwards about how Ebay or any person-to-person classified type ad works.
Trying to blame the board for a bad deal just doesn't hold true to me.
Irrelevant ads, bikini girl ads, auctions with cats and such are fine, but ONLY in the Lounge. If people are offended, a little message stating a PG-13 type disclaimer at the top of the Lounge may be the ticket.
2. There is a feedback forum that is probably underused. Look at the "SCAMMED BY >>>" type posts that we see all the time in forums OTHER than the FBF. If the problem is posting to the wrong forum, thats a problem that the mods are, I think, very good about moving or otherwise taking care of.
3. I think the icon system would be difficult to administrate. I also think that classifying users into pro, novice and newbies, or whatever would create an "us and them" elitist enviroment. If any board could make it happen, that would be us, but what are the gains?
The post count and just reading the archives will give an idea of the posting members' infomational and personal integrity that the reader can evaluate, not some mysterious rating or icon system. Plus, those in the "Bat Aristocrisy" will tend to get get the good ratings, I'm betting. You know, some of the best info I have ever rec'd was from "lurkers" who would not have great ratings under the proposed changes.
With some of the changes some are proposing, I don't think a paid, full-time BatEmployee (Alfred?, Robin?) could keep up with the administration and moderating.
To sum, I would recommend against any sweeping, overarching changes, particularily to member status identifiers. If anything, I would recommend an additional Ebay forum where ALL ebay feedback, auctions, etc are posted.
Strictly my personal opinions,
jngl "I like things just the way they are"
jnglmassiv@hotmail.com
Last edited by jnglmassiv on Mon Jun 02, 2003 10:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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YoChief
fo·rum ( P ) Pronunciation Key (fôrm, fr-)
n. pl. fo·rums, also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
A court of law; a tribunal.
Wow, I go away for one weekend and miss all the fireworks. No need for the Fourth of July this year.
My vote is:
1 - We have a forum for seller feedback, use it. Keep it respectful and polite.
2 - Vendors must allow their customers to vent when they are not pleased. Part of the job.
3 - Every posting should be within the rules of conduct for gentlemen or ladies.
4 - Censor the language that is outside good conduct but remember even the media invites and publishes opposing points of view.
n. pl. fo·rums, also fo·ra (fôr, fr)
The public square or marketplace of an ancient Roman city that was the assembly place for judicial activity and public business.
A public meeting place for open discussion.
A medium of open discussion or voicing of ideas, such as a newspaper or a radio or television program.
A public meeting or presentation involving a discussion usually among experts and often including audience participation.
A court of law; a tribunal.
Wow, I go away for one weekend and miss all the fireworks. No need for the Fourth of July this year.
My vote is:
1 - We have a forum for seller feedback, use it. Keep it respectful and polite.
2 - Vendors must allow their customers to vent when they are not pleased. Part of the job.
3 - Every posting should be within the rules of conduct for gentlemen or ladies.
4 - Censor the language that is outside good conduct but remember even the media invites and publishes opposing points of view.
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wazzzzzzzzup
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 751
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: XTS3000/astro spectra/
i second 98% of the information in the above quote, adding that i dont think we should require much personal information when signing up, i think the email address thing is enough. i like the BIT of privacy this board offers, as i am sure many others like also. requiring lots of personal info would mostlikely deter those who would rather remain somewhat anonymous from signing up, or seek some ways to bypass it, and make the personal info invalid anyway.jnglmassiv wrote:I guess I don't see the problems that so many are complaining about.
1. Ebay ad postings have always been one of the things I enjoy reading most here on the forums. I'm amused by the errors, wowed by the deals, and grateful for the heads up on auctions I missed. If someone thinks that posting a RELEVANT auction is an ironclad endorsement for that item and seller, then they are really backwards about how Ebay or any person-to-person classified type ad works.
Trying to blame the board for a bad deal just doesn't hold true to me.
Irrelevant ads, bikini girl ads, auctions with cats and such are fine, but ONLY in the Lounge. If people are offended, a little message stating a PG-13 type disclaimer at the top of the Lounge may be the ticket.
2. There is a feedback forum that is probably underused. Look at the "SCAMMED BY >>>" type posts that we see all the time in forums OTHER than the FBF. If the problem is posting to the wrong forum, thats a problem that the mods are, I think, very good about moving or otherwise taking care of.
3. I think the icon system would be difficult to administrate. I also think that classifying users into pro, novice and newbies, or whatever would create an "us and them" elitist enviroment. If any board could make it happen, that would be us, but what are the gains?
The post count and just reading the archives will give an idea of the posting members' infomational and personal integrity that the reader can evaluate, not some mysterious rating or icon system. Plus, those in the "Bat Aristocrisy" will tend to get get the good ratings, I'm betting. You know, some of the best info I have ever rec'd was from "lurkers" who would not have great ratings under the proposed changes.
With some of the changes some are proposing, I don't think a paid, full-time BatEmployee (Alfred?, Robin?) could keep up with the administration and moderating.
To sum, I would recommend against any sweeping, overarching changes, particularily to member status identifiers. If anything, I would recommend an additional Ebay forum where ALL ebay feedback, auctions, etc are posted.
Strictly my personal opinions,
brendan "I like things just the way they are"
jnglmassiv@hotmail.com
Well, I don't know if the software here is capable of this, but why not put new users on "moderated" status until such a time as the moderators agree they are "okay" to post at their free will.
This might mean we need more moderators, but I think it'd stop a lot of the "dumb" posts, etc... It will certainly stop a lot of the RSS/ebay posts as well.
Mike
This might mean we need more moderators, but I think it'd stop a lot of the "dumb" posts, etc... It will certainly stop a lot of the RSS/ebay posts as well.
Mike
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wazzzzzzzzup
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 751
- Joined: Thu Oct 04, 2001 4:00 pm
- What radios do you own?: XTS3000/astro spectra/
well i personally still post "DUMB" posts from time to time and i have as much posts as you do. so eliminating the "DUMB" posts by having moderators look over posts first of new users wont really eliminate much of that. that is really extra workload for the moderators anyway, and i dont think we need to put much more workload on them, i dont know the requirements for being a moderator, but would think that the best guys for the job are already doing it, no disrespect to anyone else. i can tell from thier posts that they know what they are doing. i have also noticed that the moderators (in particular ALEX) are very fair, understanding and "tolerant to a point". but can really take care of business of being a moderator when he is required to handle a situation. to be able to ballance those above 3 qualitys takes, in my opinion alot of effort and a stable personality.
im sure the other moderators are the same way, i just notice it with alex in particular, mabe because i see more of his posts.
just wanted to throw that into the thread and give alex and the moderators alot of credit for doing a great job keeping the board true to the rules.
im sure the other moderators are the same way, i just notice it with alex in particular, mabe because i see more of his posts.
just wanted to throw that into the thread and give alex and the moderators alot of credit for doing a great job keeping the board true to the rules.
OK -
I said last week that I was going to begin some analysis of the feedback, but between a number of different projects, work, etc, I've fallen behind in that estimate.
I haven't decided exactly what I'm going to propose to Bat for changes based on your feedback, and I do plan on leaving as much of the decision in the memberships hand as possible.
Some of the suggestions here are do-able, however, a number of them require expanding the technical abilities of the board that are somewhat out of my scope of computer knoledge (wow, yeah, i know, there's a limit to it...) and above the boards basic feature set. So some stuff is beyond the relm of possibilities.
Anyway, I wanted you guys to know I haven't forgotten about the thread, or about addressing these issues, which I believe to be of utmost importance.
Thanks for taking the time to leave the feedback and build on eachothers comments.
-Alex
I said last week that I was going to begin some analysis of the feedback, but between a number of different projects, work, etc, I've fallen behind in that estimate.
I haven't decided exactly what I'm going to propose to Bat for changes based on your feedback, and I do plan on leaving as much of the decision in the memberships hand as possible.
Some of the suggestions here are do-able, however, a number of them require expanding the technical abilities of the board that are somewhat out of my scope of computer knoledge (wow, yeah, i know, there's a limit to it...) and above the boards basic feature set. So some stuff is beyond the relm of possibilities.
Anyway, I wanted you guys to know I haven't forgotten about the thread, or about addressing these issues, which I believe to be of utmost importance.
Thanks for taking the time to leave the feedback and build on eachothers comments.
-Alex
... too much to read it all. Sorry.
I would like links to weird or interesting or rare or stupid or scam items to remain.
I scan ebay sometimes but usually I don't and if I do I'm not looking for above mentioned items and would therefore miss seeing them.
Keep the ebay.
Ratings systems....
I imagine it wouldn't be too long before it went to some peoples heads.
And all the brown nosers sniffing for position. Don't need it.
Some people become "elite" because others tell them stuff privately that they post publically to take credit.
We are greater than the sum of our "parts".
It's friendlier without a rating system.
Besides I thought your rating was the number of posts you make without being kicked for being an idiot.
I would like links to weird or interesting or rare or stupid or scam items to remain.
I scan ebay sometimes but usually I don't and if I do I'm not looking for above mentioned items and would therefore miss seeing them.
Keep the ebay.
Ratings systems....
I imagine it wouldn't be too long before it went to some peoples heads.
And all the brown nosers sniffing for position. Don't need it.
Some people become "elite" because others tell them stuff privately that they post publically to take credit.
We are greater than the sum of our "parts".
It's friendlier without a rating system.
Besides I thought your rating was the number of posts you make without being kicked for being an idiot.
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Heterodyne
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 1547
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:54 pm
Here's something for everyone to consider....
I like Batlabs the way it is. Its a good mix of good information with good people and the typical charming internet assholery.
No matter where you go, you are going to get people trying to rip people off. THeres nothing that anyone running Batlabs can do about it, other than ban buy/sell alltogether. as long as you stress that Batlabs takes no responsibility for any sales negotiated through Batlabs, good or bad, then its Caveat Emptor, which is how things work in the real world.
Don't change a thing - I think its fine the way it is.
Once and a while people will get scammed, but thats up to the buyer to figure out if the seller is on the level. I know it sounds cold, but I have been scammed before and I have no one to blame but myself.
Kudos to everyone who keep Batlabs up and running!
I like Batlabs the way it is. Its a good mix of good information with good people and the typical charming internet assholery.
No matter where you go, you are going to get people trying to rip people off. THeres nothing that anyone running Batlabs can do about it, other than ban buy/sell alltogether. as long as you stress that Batlabs takes no responsibility for any sales negotiated through Batlabs, good or bad, then its Caveat Emptor, which is how things work in the real world.
Don't change a thing - I think its fine the way it is.
Once and a while people will get scammed, but thats up to the buyer to figure out if the seller is on the level. I know it sounds cold, but I have been scammed before and I have no one to blame but myself.
Kudos to everyone who keep Batlabs up and running!
How about a ban on radio cop messages.
A look at the recent FRS-business use thread shows that most people have absolutley no idea what the FCC rules and regulations require and a lot of misinformation is spread.
If a person needs a legal interpretation o fthe rules this is a poor place to get it.
Chris
A look at the recent FRS-business use thread shows that most people have absolutley no idea what the FCC rules and regulations require and a lot of misinformation is spread.
If a person needs a legal interpretation o fthe rules this is a poor place to get it.
Chris
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Heterodyne
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 1547
- Joined: Thu Jul 25, 2002 11:54 pm
Heheh. I've been watching that thread too with some amusement.N9LLO wrote:How about a ban on radio cop messages.
A look at the recent FRS-business use thread shows that most people have absolutley no idea what the FCC rules and regulations require and a lot of misinformation is spread.
It doesn't matter where you go, you're always going to get people just WAITING for something to come along to get outraged about - and the amount of junior G-men on batlabs out to protect the airwaves from someone using .25 watts more than they're permitted always ensuses a copious amount of hilarity.
While I'm not going to chime in the thread, I invite the people who are offended to contact the company and/or file a complaint with the FCC. When the laughter dies down, maybe they'll see that business are indeed allowed to use FRS.
My message does have a point... Alex.. maybe something on the front page that says "All legal suggestions and advice on here should not be taken as prescident and may or may not reflect current and/or past regulations that have ever or will exist of the FCC and/or IC"
Although I find the radio advice to be invaluable, the legal advice dished out among my boardmates tends to be comical at best, litigiously dangerous at worst, and seldom correct.
But, as i said, cavaet emptor. This is the internet, and should only be regarded as such.
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Bugs Bunny
- Posts: 226
- Joined: Wed Sep 05, 2001 4:00 pm
While sitting here at 3 AM contemplating my navel (I can see it a LOT better now that I have gained all that weight!), I can see this topic going off-center as well.
Seems like the original thoughts/set-up of this incarnation of batboard serves the majority pretty well. There are always a few fringe loonies in any group, and that's why we have moderators. There are always a few who will jump in, sometimes to get a point across, and sometimes just to "stir it up a little".
MOST of us have a sense of humor, and some sense of propriety - albeit sometimes a little skewed.
Maybe we just put a "NC-17" disclaimer on the Lounge and be done with it. I kind of view the Lounge as a cross between Cheech and Chong, and Letterman's Top Ten List/Stupid Pet Tricks anyway.
If you get past the Lounge and the Feedback section, there is a hell of a lot of information being passed around. And I have found invaluable help on the forums, and in the people here - publicly and privately.
Just an observation: regardless of the brushfire raging in the feedback section, I have had good trades with two of the folks being roasted. And bad trades with some folk on eBay with excellent ratings. Go figure.
Leave it alone, and come on into the lounge and poke me with a stick......
Just my 2 pesos.
Jack
Seems like the original thoughts/set-up of this incarnation of batboard serves the majority pretty well. There are always a few fringe loonies in any group, and that's why we have moderators. There are always a few who will jump in, sometimes to get a point across, and sometimes just to "stir it up a little".
MOST of us have a sense of humor, and some sense of propriety - albeit sometimes a little skewed.
Maybe we just put a "NC-17" disclaimer on the Lounge and be done with it. I kind of view the Lounge as a cross between Cheech and Chong, and Letterman's Top Ten List/Stupid Pet Tricks anyway.
If you get past the Lounge and the Feedback section, there is a hell of a lot of information being passed around. And I have found invaluable help on the forums, and in the people here - publicly and privately.
Just an observation: regardless of the brushfire raging in the feedback section, I have had good trades with two of the folks being roasted. And bad trades with some folk on eBay with excellent ratings. Go figure.
Leave it alone, and come on into the lounge and poke me with a stick......
Just my 2 pesos.
Jack
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captainkirksdog
- Posts: 18
- Joined: Thu Dec 20, 2001 4:00 pm
My thoughtless comments
Hi,
I thought that I should bark up the wrong tree again so here goes:
Make an ebay forum. Let people duke it out. 'Nuff said.
If you go with a rating system, don't make it sound insulting. I hold a degree in electronics technology and I do know what I'm talking about, but if someone sees me as a "newbie", they may not consider me as a source of reliable information. I confess, I have behaved the same way toward newbies at other electronics forums.
Mossy old oak trees need to remember they were once just a little nuts.
I'm not sure if "positive I.D. required" is a good thing at "Batlabs". After all, "Batwing" could be anyone. Since I believe that all of us break the law, whether FCC, tort, civil, or traffic, do we really want to give up our anonymity? <ckd>
I thought that I should bark up the wrong tree again so here goes:
Make an ebay forum. Let people duke it out.
'Nuff said. If you go with a rating system, don't make it sound insulting. I hold a degree in electronics technology and I do know what I'm talking about, but if someone sees me as a "newbie", they may not consider me as a source of reliable information. I confess, I have behaved the same way toward newbies at other electronics forums.
Mossy old oak trees need to remember they were once just a little nuts.I'm not sure if "positive I.D. required" is a good thing at "Batlabs". After all, "Batwing" could be anyone. Since I believe that all of us break the law, whether FCC, tort, civil, or traffic, do we really want to give up our anonymity?
<ckd>Thoughts.
Don't forget about those of us who do this for hobby only. Rating systems, and posting quotas help the big businessman, but leave little for those of us who do this as a hobby.
I visit batlabs multiple times every day, read, sometimes post.
I also buy and sell stuff here... but compared to those of you that do this for a living the number of sales is not even on the chart.
I have good dealings with people here and consider myself an active member in this community even thought I don't make tons of sales here or post every day. I know there are tons of others out there like me and i'd hate to see some "user rating" dock them because they don't make tons of sales here, and don't post all the time.
Whatever your decisions may be.... don't turn this board into an elitist zone in order to save a few from bad deals. We should find a way to deal with the issue without hurting image of the hobbyest.
-l
I visit batlabs multiple times every day, read, sometimes post.
I also buy and sell stuff here... but compared to those of you that do this for a living the number of sales is not even on the chart.
I have good dealings with people here and consider myself an active member in this community even thought I don't make tons of sales here or post every day. I know there are tons of others out there like me and i'd hate to see some "user rating" dock them because they don't make tons of sales here, and don't post all the time.
Whatever your decisions may be.... don't turn this board into an elitist zone in order to save a few from bad deals. We should find a way to deal with the issue without hurting image of the hobbyest.
-l
im just one little voice here and have not been in this forum longbut from what i have used its been great learned some things i never knew, recently purchased an item from one of your users and so far the transaction has gone great!!!!!
I'd just thought that maybe the ebay ads should be banned all together after all this site is not ebay! and as for these people in here causing trouble you are going to have that everywere. Anyway thats just my little 2 cents worth
Thanks for listening
Dan (KC8ONR)
I'd just thought that maybe the ebay ads should be banned all together after all this site is not ebay! and as for these people in here causing trouble you are going to have that everywere. Anyway thats just my little 2 cents worth
Thanks for listening
Dan (KC8ONR)
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ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
I hope the eBay references to URLs of specific equipment For Sale on eBay will stay as is.
I have found several GREAT things via this route that I would have otherwise missed via a normal eBay search.
As always, Buyer Must Beware with eBay Motorola radios, such as the parts radios from many different sellers that have non-legit/hacked plugs, etc. These are a krapshoot until you get them and try 'em. Maybe they will work, or maybe not. Maybe the Service Depot will service them, and then again they may confiscate them---it's a big krapshoot. There is antecdotal evidence that supports both outcomes, so we all know it's a big gamble, with no guarantees.
That's why they cost a lot less than new! Some of that stuff is shakey, and it's really just another form of gambling. How do you know which one is good vs. bad---you don't! So, don't buy it if you will be too dissappointed if it never gets mailed, and/or if it doesn't work. If you are willing to roll the dice, then you should be willing to suffer a loss, at least some percentage of the time. Otherwise, if you can't take the pressure, buy new from Motorola with a warranty.
Same reason as to why Used Cars cost a lot less than New! Maybe you get a good deal, and then again, maybe the transmission falls out into the parking lot 5 miles down the road, and the "really nice guy" that sold it to you is nowhere to be found. That's why a new car with a warranty costs a lot more! It's not magic---it's simple economics.
Having said that, if one is willing to roll the dice and take the risk, it's a great service to have the eBay URLs of radios For Sale here on the Batboard so we can make a choice.
Just My 2 Cents,
Larry
I have found several GREAT things via this route that I would have otherwise missed via a normal eBay search.
As always, Buyer Must Beware with eBay Motorola radios, such as the parts radios from many different sellers that have non-legit/hacked plugs, etc. These are a krapshoot until you get them and try 'em. Maybe they will work, or maybe not. Maybe the Service Depot will service them, and then again they may confiscate them---it's a big krapshoot. There is antecdotal evidence that supports both outcomes, so we all know it's a big gamble, with no guarantees.
That's why they cost a lot less than new! Some of that stuff is shakey, and it's really just another form of gambling. How do you know which one is good vs. bad---you don't! So, don't buy it if you will be too dissappointed if it never gets mailed, and/or if it doesn't work. If you are willing to roll the dice, then you should be willing to suffer a loss, at least some percentage of the time. Otherwise, if you can't take the pressure, buy new from Motorola with a warranty.
Same reason as to why Used Cars cost a lot less than New! Maybe you get a good deal, and then again, maybe the transmission falls out into the parking lot 5 miles down the road, and the "really nice guy" that sold it to you is nowhere to be found. That's why a new car with a warranty costs a lot more! It's not magic---it's simple economics.
Having said that, if one is willing to roll the dice and take the risk, it's a great service to have the eBay URLs of radios For Sale here on the Batboard so we can make a choice.
Just My 2 Cents,
Larry