RIB Power supply

[n3kvp]

Hello all,

I lost the wall wart power supply for my "Motorola" RIB, I need to know what the voltage is on the wall wort, I know it takes a 9 volt battery, but I am not sure if it takes a 9VDC or 12VDC adaptor.

Also, where can I get a copy of the RSS Programing Manual for a GM300/GR300?

Thanks, Butch

[nmfire10]

It's 9 volts as well.

[n3kvp]

Thanks, I did notice a 5V regulator in the diagram so It may or may not make a difference, but I will stick with the 9V.

Butch

[Monty]

Hi:

I have the " Factory " ones if you are interested.

They use a Full Wave, Filtered 9 VDC @ 200 ~ 333ma
Power Supply.

I would NOT use just any power supply !

Most have no filtering at all, and are only 1/2 wave
bridges....Its not worth the risk of using a cheap external
power source

Monty

[70351]

Yes, Yes . . . To Monty you listen!!


Randy

[JAYMZ]

Yes, Yes . . . To Monty you listen!!


Randy

Yes yes... good info... BUT... You guys may or may not find this interesting.

About a year an a half ago I purchased a wall wart from Motorola for my RIB. Swell Idea I thought. WRONG!!

I noticed that my RIB wouldn't power up with the Motorola Supply anymore. Odd I say. I opened the RIB up and the center conductor was de-soldered from the board. Ruh roh. So on a burst of curiousity I broke out the trusty DMM and looked to see what the wall wart was giving me. To my shock it was in the area of 15 VDC at about 4 - 5 amps. Even though it was rated for 9V at 333ma. What gives? Bad lot? Acceptable variances?

My UPA wall wart came the same way. Rated 10V at .5 amps... gave me 12V at 2 amps.

[Monty]

Yes yes... good info... BUT... You guys may or may not find this interesting.

JAYMZ

About a year an a half ago I purchased a wall wart from Motorola for my RIB. Swell Idea I thought. WRONG!!

I noticed that my RIB wouldn't power up with the Motorola Supply anymore. Odd I say. I opened the RIB up and the center conductor was de-soldered from the board. Ruh roh. So on a burst of curiousity I broke out the trusty DMM and looked to see what the wall wart was giving me. To my shock it was in the area of 15 VDC at about 4 - 5 amps. Even though it was rated for 9V at 333ma. What gives? Bad lot? Acceptable variances?

JAYMZ

To my shock it was in the area of 15 VDC at about 4 - 5 amps.

HI:

With respects to your power supply problem, I would re-think
your findings a bit.

Perhaps you may be thinking 400 ~ 500 ma ?

[ 4 ~ 5 AMPS ? That's one heck of a power supply !

One reason is the the " Secondary Windings " in the small
Wall type power supply could not supply [ 4 ~ 5 amps ] unless
there was a direct short accross the output, in which case the
small fuse winding in the [ Primary Side ] would open to prevent a fire from occuring.

Addressing the " Unsoldered Wire " on the PC board, Yep, I have
seen that happen with " Many " products that escape the Quality
Control Stations.

I truly hate seeing that many products. especially
" so called Replacements ' have no Quality Control at all.

One thing for sure ! , If you have a Factory one, chances are
" Very Good " they will send you a replacement for " Free ' if
you take the time to send it back to them !

Mfg's are very interested in the Customer Feedback, and if you
have enough time to send it back to them, you may get a Brand
New one.

Heck, for that matter, send it to me, and I will send you a Brand
New one for free.....I always like having a bit of a edge over a
mfg process !

The Motorola Power Supplies for the Rib will " Indeed " show more than 9VDC ( Unloaded ) Since its " Not a regulated Supply " but DOES have a Full Wave Bridge and a Filter
Cap which many other style power supplies have nothing more than a Single Diode, and no filtering at all.

In addition, Un-regulated Wall Power supplies with ratings
of 1 ~ 2+ AMPS will exibit a noticable " Higher " output voltage
untill a " Load " is placed accross them, at which time the supply
voltage will drop......
=============================================
Therefore, its NOT advisable to use a Un-regulated Power Supply with current capicities higher than the Load requirement.
=============================================
Center Tip is Positive for those interested

Monty

[jackhackett]

I recently needed to replace my rib power supply, I found one from Mouser part# 412-109033 rated 9v 300mA, comes with the proper connector on it, seems to work ok.

[wa2zdy]

I think the question for our esteemed moderator Jaymz would be: what load did you have on that wall wart that was drawing 4 or 5 amps?

A power supply doesn't "give" or "put out" current. The current is drawn by the load. The voltage is controlled by the power supply, that is the power supply outputs some specific voltage. The current drawn by the load depends on the overall resistance of the circuit.

A 12v supply is 12v (disregarding regulation for the moment.) If you put a 12 ohm resistor across it, that 12 ohm resistor will DRAW 1 amp. If you put a 6 ohm resister across the 12v supply, the resistor will draw 2 amps.

[Ed]

Funny,

Checked-up my own original.... It came with a motorola powerplug, measured 17volts, 1 amp. No harm done anyway........

Ed

[Alan]

I think that the clue was the mention that he used his trusty DVM to measure the voltage and it was higher than the product indicated. This is normal. Next he mentioned it was 4-5 amps. My guess is that he set his DVM to the current (amps) position and put it across the transformer output (a direct short).
I think you will see a few amps for a brief period utill you let out the magic smoke (all good techs know that electronics works on magic smoke. If you let out the magic smoke, the item stops working).

[Monty]

Ed Wrote"

Funny,

Checked-up my own original.... It came with a motorola powerplug, measured 17volts, 1 amp. No harm done anyway........

Hi:

You might want to revisit your measurements, as if you truly
have a " Original Motorola Rib Power Supply " it should read
13 ~ 13.5 VDC ( Unloaded )

Also, I am a bit at a loss where persons are " Reporting " they
are measuring the " Current " . Measuring the current MUST
be done while the Source is in operation. Its not possible to
" Measure " the output current in a Unloaded condition.

Measuring that high of a voltage ( even unloaded ) is not
recommended !

==============================================

Anyhow, If you are a die hard, need a Factory Motorola Original
Power Supply, I can save you about 10.00 off the wholesale price

They are " Rated " @ 9VDC 200-333 Ma ( the ones I have are the
333ma versions ) Full Wave Bridge inside, and fair filtering.

But its definatley better than just a single diode and no Filtering
at all with some more inexpensive versions.



My only motive is to only help those maintain a safe program
platform !

Email me if you are interested

Monty

[ASTROMODAT]

There are some very interesting statements in the current Motorola price book sheets in regards to the SRIB. It states that for programming the XTS-3000, XTS-3500 and the AS that have Host Code R06.10.00 and up, the RLN-1015D MUST be used for programming and radio upgrades. It goes on to overtly state that the previous version, RLN-1015C, can NOT be used.

I have successfully used the RLN-1015C with our XTS-3000's that have the very latest Host Code, for both CPS programming and radio firmware uplifts, so I don't get it. (I think it may have to do with Conventional vs. Trunked radios, and how much memory is now typically required for radio configurations. The "C" version of the SRIB has only 1 Meg of memory, whereas the "D" version has 8 Megs).

Stranger yet is what they say about the SRIB power supply requirement. It states that the previous power supply (used by the RLN-1015A thru C), 0180357A57, could damage the RLN-1015D SRIB. You MUST use either the 0180302E27 or the 2580373E86.

Larry

[Monty]

HI:

Astromodat Wrote:

RLN-1015D MUST be used for programming and radio upgrades. It goes on to overtly state that the previous version, RLN-1015C, can NOT be used.

This is NOT all together true.

The " Only " reason Motorola made the " RLN1015D Series
was to accomodate 1 Radio which is used by UPS Data Terminals. ( Period )

They needed the extra memory due to all the information
required, where the all piror radios like the Astro Series can
get by with the current memory.

Also, one note of interest ! The RLN1015D Series Smart Rib
is NOT made in the US.

Many times," miss-leading inofrmation" is given to try and
make the " Earlier Smart Ribs " become cheaper in the Market
Place.

But the fact remains, the RLN1015C Series Smart Rib will still
provide suitable Upgrades for almost 99 % of All radios that
are Flash Upgradeable.

This is the very reason it works fine for all the upgrades that
have been mentioned.
===========================================

With respects to the " Power Supply" issue for them and
even the normal Rib.

ITS ALWASYS advisable to use a "External Power Source " when
Programming and especially " Upgrading Radios "

Since the " Smart Rib " DOES NOT have a " Internal Power "
source, it MUST rely on a " External Battery Source " or a " External
DC Power Supply " In the latter, IT MUST be well Regulated.

Smart Ribs are " Nothing " like the more common RLN4008 Series
Ribs which have been around for more than a decade.

When one is upgrading the Firmware in any of these radios, one
is accessing the very heart of the radio.....Stop at anytime, and it
will kill the radio, and one has to start all over again.

Therefore, use a Fresh Battery ( as per the Service bullitens ) External Power Supply ( whenever possible ) and make absolutely
sure, all your Cables, Computer, OS's is in very good working order.

I am sure there may be more, but the RLN1015C Series Smart
Rib can / still be used for ALL Astro-Series Upgrades !

Only exception ? is whereby you get special instructions with
your Radio Upgrade.


Monty

[ASTROMODAT]

Monty said:

"Since the " Smart Rib " DOES NOT have a " Internal Power "
source, it MUST rely on a " External Battery Source " or a " External
DC Power Supply "

I have an SRIB, model RLN-1015C, and it has the Optional internal battery supply. Not sure what your point is...

As to the RLN-1015D ONLY being necessary for specialized UPS radios--- I called Motorola (Florida) and they disagree. He said the RLN-1015D IS REQUIRED, if your radio needs more than 1 Meg. The fact that the few of us on this board have not yet anecdotally run into a radio case where we need more than 1 Meg may simply suggest that typical hobbyist applications can be satisfied with the C model. I don't believe that Motorola would be making these statements if it was the case that ONLY the specialized UPS radios fall into this more than 1 Meg category. If that were the only case, in my opinion, I believe they'd simply work directly with UPS on that matter, and not broadly publicise it in their price book.

BTW, I don't have any idea what the relevance is regarding where the SRIB is built---who cares?! Would I stop buying Motorola ASTRO radios if they were built off-shore? Hell no! The majority of the new 7E7 is to be built off-shore, do I care? As a Boeing stockholder, I look to Boeing to build the best plane at the lowest possible cost. Boeing looks to beat Air Bus---it comes down to low cost/best quality/best performance/highest reliability/best safety. Period. No one cares where it was built when it comes time to fly. (BTW, Washington State just handed Boeing a $6 Billion subsidy, so it ain't only Air Bus gettin' Gov't subsidies!) Who cares how much of it is made in China, South Korea, and the like? China builds excellent helicopters, etc. Dissing products built off-shore is so passe! (IMHO)

Larry

[Monty]

HI:

Please do not take this wrong, its only ment to be
informative from my service advantage, and is not
ment to say you are incorrect ! After the 1st of the
year, I will look into it in more detail, and we can
see which of the Motorola sources are correct.

ASTROMODAT WROTE:

I have an SRIB, model RLN-1015C, and it has the Optional internal battery supply. Not sure what your point is...

My point was ( and still is ) that the RLN1015C ( or D ) did
not have a " Internal Battery "

There is simply no room inside for it.

However, Motorola did make a " External Battery Pack "
and has a part number of a RLN4488A and it mates with
the Smart Rib Series




With due respects to the RLN1015C and RLN1015D, I did not
mean to say one was better than the other , but as I have had more than one inquiry on this issue, I did learn that the US Made Smart Ribs can be Serviced, where as I have not been
very sucessful with the overseas model. ( Yet )


This information is deemed good as of 05/15/2003, and
so far, the shop has performed over 200 upgrades for
all types of radios up to Aug 2003, and so far, we have
not had any trouble at all with the RLN1015C series Smart
Ribs

All I can offer is there is " No Service Facility " in Florida as
Motorola now has " Centralized " there service in Schamberg.

The information I received came from a very reliable
source that has been with Motorola for over 20 years...So
you are free to beleive whom ever you wish.

The ones made in Germany have " No Provisions" for
parts, Upgrades, or Anything for that matter. You can not
even get a replacement housinng !

Don't beleive it ? Try ordering a simple 1580371E77 and
see what response you get....Even my source can't get
it....Go figure...I could just imagine if something more
important part was needed.

That was my reasoning for making the point about the
ones made overseas. Again, just a Service issue, I
did not mean to imply they were a inferior product.[/b]

In the 1st, 2cd, 3rd, and now 4th generation Smart Ribs, I
had a number of persons who were a little pissed to spend
1000's of dollars on a Smart Rib, only to find out 2 ~3 months
later a newer version was out. I mean, how would you feel ?

I did learn the US mfg of the Smart Rib would ( and
did make ) upgrades to " Their Product " but WILL NOT make
changes to the German version. ( Period )

Perhaps its a completly different design altogether ! I have
not had the oppertunity to review one as of this date.

Since I have a Chipmaster Re-Work Station and a number of
Focus heads, It pretty easy for me to " Remove and Replace " these SMC VLSI Chips.

It would be very nice to offer a service to those persons
who might want to protect their 1000.00 investment rather
than having to " Buy a new one "

At present, Service on Smart Ribs does not look favorable, however, the A, B, and C series so far, can be serviced if you
are a die hard.

So, what next ? RLN1015E in 2 ~ 3 months ?

Only way of getting support is through a replacement
within the warrantee period for the RLN1015D

I have been assured time and again by the Depot in Schamberg that the RLN1015C will still support 99% of all the Motorola radios that may need a Flash Upgrade, and that current owners of the
RLN1015C Series Rib should have no problems.


If in fact a RLN1015D series Rib is required for a Flash Upgrade
you will be stuck with it, but since there apparently there is
only a very few pieces of equipment that need the extra memory, I would not go out and dump a C, or even a Earlier version for that matter just because a D version is now being offered.

Unless its absolutely required, stick with what you have.

One thing for sure, I am sure getting a bit pissed with all
these dam upgrades when the equipment involved should
have been designed properly in the first place.

Ugh, guess we should make a Smart Rib with 1 meg memory,
lets just forget about the future !, I mean it does not take all
that much to add 4, 8. 16 , even 32 megs of memory with on
board IC's these days. Thats like paying twice for the same
Real Estate.

What next ? RLN1015E ?, Then " F " ?

If parts ever become availible, rest assured, I will be able
to offer the person a upgrade ( when and if ever needed )

I went out, and had a Custom Focus head made for the main
firmware chip on the board.

As you may or may not be aware, we have been offering
support service on all Motorola Rib Boxes and have been
doing so for almost 10 years. Only real obsticle has been
the Smart Rib, and Motorola does not like to hand out
information .

I know one memeber made a reference to some of these
Motorola support individules as Radio Shack types, hopefully
my sources are several steps higher then the Tandy type.

MS

[JAYMZ]

I think the question for our esteemed moderator Jaymz would be: what load did you have on that wall wart that was drawing 4 or 5 amps?

I was waiting for that question actually. With no load I got those values. That was straight from the PS. So figuring that it may have been a mistake I plugged it into the RIB and powered it on. Checked again. Same thing... So figuring on risking a charger I have for a cordless drill that takes the same type of plug wiht the center pin as positive I tried that. Pulled even more. I bought a new PS for the RIB and that is within normal limits. In this case I would have to say that the PS was faulty.(Especially since you couldn't handle it after using it..talk about hot stuff) It happens... frustrating... but it happens.

Now for the UPA... I rechecked that one this afternoon. Best I can tell.. I used the wrong setting on the DMM when checking that one originally Again... it happens.

[ASTROMODAT]

Monty, if I understood you correctly, you commented that the RLN-4488 is an external power pack. I think what we have here is a difference of semantics. I have the RLN-4488 and it fits inside of my RLN-1015C. The RLN-4488 is a complete mod kit, with lots of parts (see 6880309F42-0). It includes a new bottom plate that includes the battery holder. The mod requires that you remove (and throw away, albeit I kept mine!) the original bottom plate on the RLN-1015C. The new bottom plate has battery holders for 6 AA cells. It fits on the bottom of the SRIB so that when you screw it into place (with the original screws), the SRIB becomes slightly thicker, by roughly the diameter of one AA cell, a very slight amount. When the mod is completed, I would not consider this to be an external power pack. It is now internal, albeit the SRIB gets a slight bit “fatter" (by maybe 15% or so). Works like a champ! When I do a firmware uplift, my procedure is to use this optional built-in battery supply with the AC wall wart simultaneously, which is exactly what Motorola advises in their FLASHport upgrade kits.

As to consulting Florida for advice on the necessity for the RLN-1015D, I know that there is no service center there. The fellow I spoke to is a software developer in the ASTRO group. He is a 25 year veteran Motorola foggy, and a fellow who has been around the block and knows from what he speaks! Of course I am NOT recommending that folks throw away their perfectly good RLN-1015Cs! I surely have not thrown mine away! But, I also won't be too surprised when, at some point, it will not support a firmware upload, or a programming load. That's my point.

I’m not sure about your reference to a $1,000 SRIB. The RLN-1015D is $550, if you have to pay full list price.

Most of the flat rate repairs at the Repair Depot are typically around $250 to $375. Why would I want to pay this amount of money (not to mention the associated headaches, plus additional non-trivial costs associated with freight and insurance), and have the wait time, etc. when I can replace the darn thing for a little more than it costs to repair it? That's why folks don't take their $250 TV sets to the now out-of-business TV repair shops---it makes no economic sense in today's world of 2004. Look at cell phones---they are certainly not worth repairing. Buy a new one every 2 years (that's their average lifetime), and look at all the new features you get! The days of the horse and buggy are over, and I'm glad!

Monty, I think this entire SRIB matter will soon go away. I believe we will increasingly see a direct USB to radio connection, with no need for the stupid SRIB in the final analysis. Hopefully, this will occur before we need an RLN-1015E! Isn’t this already the case for Motorola’s new generation of top-of-the-line of radios, such as the XTS5000 and the XTL5000?

Larry

[Monty]

Hi Larry:

And thank you for the update as to the " kit "

================================

Why I mention the 1000.00, seems to me like
the 400.00 allen wrench, 500.00 tolet seat prices.


Of course one needs more than just the Smart Rib
to make it play. ( BTW, they use to be 450.00 )

$550.00 SRIB RLN1015D
$ 95.00 RLN4488A
$ 42.75 0180302E27 AC PowerSpply
$ 49.29 9 Pin Rib to Computer Cable
==========================

$ 737.00

$ 56.00 ( Approx applicable state taxes, depending where you l live )
==========================

$ 793.00

$ 20..00 ( approx Shiiping )
=========================

$ 813.00 ( What a average John Doe User Pays -Even Wholesale )


Just to be able to Flash Upgrade a number of radios which
should have been designed correctly in the 1st place

For some, it might as well be 10,000.00

=========================

Although I am sure the USB would be ideal, I don;t
think our favorite company is going to make it that
simple.

I would definately stay in touch with your friend
in the Astro_development department. !!

Out of almost 100 contacts I use to have in Mototola
now its down to less than a dozen, and when they
go, I will be right behind them.....Been doing this now
for over 32 years !

Time to consider another profession.....Retirement.

Monty

[ASTROMODAT]

The Big Electronic Boys are making everything to be disposable/non repairable. I don't think there is any Secret Bad Plan, I think it's just how technology is going. Software driven and burned into ASICs. Even DSP is being overtaken by big, huge ASICs. By the time the firmware needs updating, you junk the thing, so the economies of scale often times favor a big, high volume custom chip over DSP, particularly if you plan to replace the unit rather than firmware uplift it. The idea of a disposable cardboard cell phone has been around for years, and we probably aren't far from it. Remember when a cell phone like a DynaTAC 8000 portable was $4,200? Consumers are not only happy with this throw away approach, they expect it. My 19 year old son asked me the other day why we don't just replace our turbines instead of overhauling them. That's the mindset of the New Generation. Who knows, maybe down the road, he will be right!

Larry

[wa2zdy]

Jaymz, it sounds as if you're measuring across the power supply output with your ammeter. That's not how it's done. One measures voltage across the supply, and current in series with the load. In other words, the ammeter has a negligible resistance and the full current drawn by the load flows through the ammeter. To put an ammeter across a supply is essentially shorting it out and yes, I can see 4-5 amps flowing. That would be the current the nearly dead-short ammeter as a load would be drawing while pulling the supply voltage down considerably. I wouldn't expect the supply to last more than a fraction of a minute like that.

If I've misunderstood what you're doing, I retract my statement LOL!

Good luck and happy holidays to all!

[tiredfireman]

MAGIC SMOKE !! i love it. Damn near fell off the chair laughing.

[PETNRDX]

You can buy cans of the compressed Magic Smoke Gas.
The problem is getting the correct adaptor cable/tube interface, and the Magic Smoke RIB to get the smoke back in.
With Motorola the connectors are a specially guarded depot item.

[Motradio]

FYI -

The regulator in the base RLN4008B (and on my rib pcb) is a 100ma 5v Regulator LM78L05 (or equiv). Which powers everything (including theICL7660). Minimum input to make it work proper will be about 7vdc to the regulator, max allowable is 35vdc. Typically what will kill the regulator will be the excessive heat from too much voltage drop, ie 30vdc to 5vdc is a lot of wasted heat, it really depends on the current draw, and of course the input capacitors voltage ratings. I have run them at 24v by mistake and not had a mishap, but your mileage may vary.

Sandy