Key Loader service/repair question

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:16 pm

Hey all...

Anyone good with keyloaders? I just got in two T3011CX loaders that won't power on. One of two things could be wrong... first, whatever usually kills a Keyloader, and secondly, I got the impression the seller may have "tested" them by attaching a 9v battery, probably backwards... and maybe even a 12v power supply! Not sure, didn't get a lot of info.
So the question is, would attaching a 9v battery backwards fry the loaders and what to check? I've scanned the boards for obvious signs of fried diodes and such, but everything appears good.
???
suggestions?
thanks!

jnglmassiv · Post by **jnglmassiv** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 12:29 pm

Nine volt battery...just dumb.

Several possibilities come to mind:
1. Did you check the 2A fuse under the round cap at the bottom of the units?
2. Did you open the loaders and make sure all the boards are seated properly, chips in their carriers, and ribbon cables are plugged in?
3. Are you certain your battery is ok?
4. Are the button pads ok? One of my loaders has a bit of a wrinkle on the Power button and it sometimes takes a few presses to turn the thing on.

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 1:12 pm

DOH!

Go figure, I cleaned contacts, wiggled, giggled and pressed around, searched the boards hi/lo for a fuse and figured it was a zener diode or something they used....

Still waiting on the manual for the loaders and I never suspected that was a cap with a fuse under it!
So, problem solved, took the fuse outta my good loader and both of these work fine. Thanks for the trout-slap.

Now what's the part number on that fuse so I can order a vat of them!
What's a fair asking price for a CX KVL?
thanks again, bro.

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:18 pm

Don't have the part# but it's the same as used on the MX and probably a lot easier to find that way.

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Thu Dec 16, 2004 3:27 pm

Yeah, I was thinking GM300, but not sure if that's a 2A or 1A....?
Maybe the MT1000?
thanks,

kc7gr · Post by **kc7gr** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 8:25 am

Those are standard Buss 'Picofuse' type devices. They're built to be about the same size as a 1/4 watt resistor. Readily available from the bigger electronics suppliers (I think even Fry's has them in the parts aisles), but not from RastyShack.

The MX radio and the keyloaders do NOT use the same fuse. The MX uses a 3A or 5A, and the keyloader uses either a 1 or 2A (don't recall which, probably a 2).

Keep the peace(es).

jnglmassiv · Post by **jnglmassiv** » Fri Dec 17, 2004 11:26 am

Ya, mine have 2A fuses..I'd really be suprised if they ever see even half an amp, though. There's just not much to the loaders.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:44 am

*bump*

Okay, I've got one for you.

Mine is a T3011CX. Same problem, no powerup. I checked the fuse; it was popped, so I replaced it. Still no powerup. Upon closer inspection, it turned out that the EEprom chip (the one in the socket on the top board looking at the back of the unit) was only half plugged-in. I fixed that. Still no powerup.

I can hear the "speaker" in the top board clicking when I press the power button, so I'm reasonably certain the front flex is OK and that everything is plugged in where it's supposed to be. I'm also reasonably certain that it wasn't de-milled on account of the DES-XL hybrid still being there. Also, my battery is good enough to make an MX radio transmit, so that's not the issue either. I don't have a service manual atm, so any advice would be appreciated. If it's FUBAR, at least I'm not out a whole lot of money.

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Sat Jan 07, 2006 10:49 am

Probably corrupted the EPROM or someone tried to update it with a DX chip and put it in backwards and fried it... ?

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 7:36 am

Try looking for a missing crystal. Some of the de-milled stuff I got were sythesized radios with the master osc crystal broken off or crushed. You can also check the dip switches, if they are in the wrong position they act up or don't work. I don't have that info right now, I would have to search through 2 garages to find it.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:50 am

Keyloaders contain oscillator crystals? Crazy stuff.

I don't recall seeing a bank of DIP switches in there, either.

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 11:55 am

Hey, out of curiosity, where did you get that loader??
[if ya don't mind me asking...]

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:01 pm

Woody_99 wrote:Hey, out of curiosity, where did you get that loader??
[if ya don't mind me asking...]

Greedbay, from the same guy that has/had all the Astro Saber 1s. It's in pristine shape, so it'd kinda be a shame if it was totally bricked.

Woody_99 · Post by **Woody_99** » Mon Jan 09, 2006 12:12 pm

LOL.... ya know, I find ebay has the LOWEST radio prices, where it used to have the highest prices. However, it's a lot more risk these days too....

Ok, just curious where it came from...

Check the EPROM again, if it's fried, it won't power up. Check that the notch should match the print underneath; and if it's backward, it's dead.
[but not totally bricked]

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Mon Jan 23, 2006 10:12 am

I would hope a keyloader would have a crystal, to run the micro. The dip switches tell the micro what version of encryption its suppose to be working with. In the wrong position, put in a DES module, it won't work since it's looking for a DVP module.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Tue Jan 24, 2006 10:45 am

I'll have to post pictures then, 'cause I'm fairly certain their was no OSC crystal in there and definitely no bank of DIP switches.

The EEPROM getting plugged in backwards and then powered up to "demil" it is a definite possibility. The case and the guts looked pretty cherry and not-jacked with, but someone obviously tampered with it to get the EEPROM only plugged in on one side and the fuse popped.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Tue Feb 07, 2006 8:33 pm

Okay, I was wrong. There is a OSC crystal, but no DIP switch bank.

http://img146.imageshack.us/img146/2485 ... er12ia.jpg

http://img283.imageshack.us/img283/1597 ... er27ww.jpg

So there you go. Look kosher? It's still dead as a doornail, and short of dropping a new EEPROM in it, I don't know what to do.

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:50 am

Ok, what makes you think they are CX keyloaders, other that the plate on the back. I always thought the newer style BX,CX,DX had double proms, not the single type on your keyloaders circuit board, or am I missing something? They appear to be AX series which is only upgradeable to a limited BX which will work with X-9000 ( single key, multi key and OTAR), analog Spectra and Systems Saber. I even have a few of the BX upgrade proms. I have a few both series, and I will have to open them both up and compare. Will get back to you on that.

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 9:57 am

RADIOMAN2002 wrote:Ok, what makes you think they are CX keyloaders, other that the plate on the back. I always thought the newer style BX,CX,DX had double proms, not the single type on your keyloaders circuit board, or am I missing something?

Don't get me lying, this is the first keyloader I've been inside of.

Anyone with a service manual want to check part numbers?

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 10:27 am

Ok, here's what I found based upon the 6 keyloaders I have. I opened every one of them, and it appears that the NON_XL keyloaders have the dip switches, and 1 prom. Yours is a 2 prom version( u104 and u103), and according to my units the firmware, yours checks out as a BX or CX version. My unit has firmware TVN6087B yours hasan ver A, I don't know if its just a bug fix or and upgrade.
If you cannot confirm that the prom was installed backwards, I would start at the main power transister and check that you are getting power from the battery at at least 6.5 vdc and the switch line from the keypad. You may have to do a little trace finding. Also I would open the front keypad up to make sure they didn't damage something else up there.Other than that I am sure the book for it is still availible, check around, it is usually something simple. BTW most Motorola products have excellent reverse and overvoltage protection, that blows the fuse first.

Hartley · Post by **Hartley** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 11:53 am

Hi Y'all,

I can confirm that the pictured unit is a "CX" - the board numbers match.

What DOESN'T match is the EPROM - the "TVN 6087" number is nothing like the "TRN 9853A" that my manual calls for. My guess is, somebody changed out the EEPROM to repair/upgrade another unit somewhere.. The date is about right, though (my CX manual schematic is dated 3/90)

73 DE Hartley

DJP126 · Post by **DJP126** » Wed Feb 15, 2006 12:24 pm

The TRN7136B replacement board is still available at Motorola. Price is $349.00, however I don't know if the EPROM is included on the board. The TVN6087 was the factory p/n & the TRN9853 was the replacement. Both are NLA.

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Fri Feb 17, 2006 6:16 am

Standard Motorola, I would never go by the parts book for firmware. 9 times out of 10 it's incorrect. It's a good place to start but anytime I needed a part for anything Securenet, radios or keyloaders I called the Bat parts ID. BTW my factory fresh CX keyloaded has the TVN 6087b firmware in it, and it works just fine. Now since it is a US Gov model, it is possible that they had a specific prom made for them , seen that many a time. Changing the board probably will not fix the prom problem, my best advice is to get the service manual from Moto, call parts ID and see it there are any still around, even if its NLA see if they can put you in touch with somebody who worked on the product. I did that for an early version of the Digital Spectra-Tac voter. Turns out he gave me a part number that was still availible, probably because no one knew that it existed

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Mon Feb 20, 2006 11:11 am

Well, turns out it was a dead EPROM. A big thanks to the gentleman who supplied me with a DX chip.

Key Loader service/repair question

Key Loader service/repair question

loaded at work....

short fuse...

fried for life..

curio....

Re: curio....

dead key....

3011CX