I think we (the batboard community) need to clarify what firmware is!!
The moderators need to get together and think this over and come up with an INTELLIGENT policy.
Firmware is NOT RSS! Firmware is treated by everyone totally different than programming software.
You can BUY firmware as a "PART",,, get it , a PART ! (not under the RSS umbrella) at Moto Online or Myradiomall etc, with NO license etc!!!
Go to http://www.myradiomall.com/cgi-bin/category.cgi and put FVN4019A in the search box.
Think about the following examples;
If firmware is to be treated like software, then you must pull the chips before you sell a radio.
Also, since firmware is like a codeplug, then we cannot exchange codeplugs and must BLANK any radio before selling it.
OH, and god forbid, one cannot hack or change software as described on batlabs!
Or think of this; Someone needs a 900 conventional firmware, you have a SMOKED radio (with a good chip) , the current "rules" say you cannot sell it via batboard ....!!
If no answer can be had from big M, then maybe something like "You can buy and sell an original chip, but not churn out copies for profit".
Just some kind of Policy that makes SENSE, instead of locking folks for talking about it.... (Hell, Moto does not even sell the Maxtrac anymore!)
Too many great resources are leaving because everyone is getting testy!
Firmware is NOT RSS!!
Moderator: Queue Moderator
I put this into the thread in the 900MHz forum, but will copy it here as well. The question was why firmware images are requested on batlabs, but can't be asked for here:
I'm not sure if most people realize this, but the Batlabs site & this forum are owned & operated by two different people.
Batwing & a couple of others own the Batlabs site & run it through a server in...Vancouver I believe. This site is owned by Jon, who runs it on a server in Ohio or thereabouts. The sites provide links to each other, but that's about it.
So, what goes on Batlabs really has nothing to do with what goes here. What "they" ask for there doesn't affect what "we" can ask for here.
Traditionally, we refer people to Batlabs when it can answer their questions, as it's one of the premier Motorola info sites on the net.
Anything new which has come up on here has traditionally gone onto become an update on Batlabs...until about 3-4 years ago at least.
If Batwing doesn't update his site anymore, there's nothing we here can do about it. I don't know if he's lost interest, or if there's another reason. He can be emailed though the contact info on the Batlabs site if you really want to ask. He might even respond.
Likewise, Jon can be emailed through his username here on Batlabs, if you really have an issue with what's allowed to be discussed here & what isn't. It's ultimately his site, and he can say what goes & what can't. As of right now, he has given us no solid direction, so we err on the side of caution. If he says to make it a hacker's haven, then it'll become that. I don't mind it one way or the other, it's his arse & not mine.
Now, all that said, it's correct that Motorola doesn't make you sign a licensing agreement to own a Maxtrac. However, if you read the owner's manual, there is a section in the very beginning which clearly states they consider any software/firmware which resides in the radio to be their Intellectual Property. Just look at the legal mess they've created with the Motorola vs Nick DeLuca case regarding just the hardware! They haven't even really touched on the software/firmware side of things in that one yet.
So, IP is IP, be it RSS or firmware images. Motorola could potentially make a fuss over either one. Until Jon decides to take an active role, or at least tells us which way to steer the ship, people can play internet lawyer all they want, a change like that isn't going to occur. If people want to leave because they cannot understand this, it's their perogative.
It saddens me, because I am first & foremost a dedicated member here, and I don't want to see anyone leave without good reason.
Todd
I'm not sure if most people realize this, but the Batlabs site & this forum are owned & operated by two different people.
Batwing & a couple of others own the Batlabs site & run it through a server in...Vancouver I believe. This site is owned by Jon, who runs it on a server in Ohio or thereabouts. The sites provide links to each other, but that's about it.
So, what goes on Batlabs really has nothing to do with what goes here. What "they" ask for there doesn't affect what "we" can ask for here.
Traditionally, we refer people to Batlabs when it can answer their questions, as it's one of the premier Motorola info sites on the net.
Anything new which has come up on here has traditionally gone onto become an update on Batlabs...until about 3-4 years ago at least.
If Batwing doesn't update his site anymore, there's nothing we here can do about it. I don't know if he's lost interest, or if there's another reason. He can be emailed though the contact info on the Batlabs site if you really want to ask. He might even respond.
Likewise, Jon can be emailed through his username here on Batlabs, if you really have an issue with what's allowed to be discussed here & what isn't. It's ultimately his site, and he can say what goes & what can't. As of right now, he has given us no solid direction, so we err on the side of caution. If he says to make it a hacker's haven, then it'll become that. I don't mind it one way or the other, it's his arse & not mine.
Now, all that said, it's correct that Motorola doesn't make you sign a licensing agreement to own a Maxtrac. However, if you read the owner's manual, there is a section in the very beginning which clearly states they consider any software/firmware which resides in the radio to be their Intellectual Property. Just look at the legal mess they've created with the Motorola vs Nick DeLuca case regarding just the hardware! They haven't even really touched on the software/firmware side of things in that one yet.
So, IP is IP, be it RSS or firmware images. Motorola could potentially make a fuss over either one. Until Jon decides to take an active role, or at least tells us which way to steer the ship, people can play internet lawyer all they want, a change like that isn't going to occur. If people want to leave because they cannot understand this, it's their perogative.
It saddens me, because I am first & foremost a dedicated member here, and I don't want to see anyone leave without good reason.
Todd
No trees were harmed in the posting of this message...however an extraordinarily large number of electrons were horribly inconvenienced.
Welcome to the /\/\achine.
Welcome to the /\/\achine.
Essentially you are correct.
The problem that occurs, is as follows.
You buy said "part" from Motorola containing proprietary code on it which is copyrighted. It gives you limited license to use that chip or prom with that code on it and that's it. You cannot copy it... or share it.
If you have the firmware prom and you want to sell it. Go for it. Monty did it for YEARS. But you cannot copy and distribute the IMAGE of the code on the prom since it is copyrighted for use on that chip.
Someone correct me if I am wrong but that is my interpretation.
The problem that occurs, is as follows.
You buy said "part" from Motorola containing proprietary code on it which is copyrighted. It gives you limited license to use that chip or prom with that code on it and that's it. You cannot copy it... or share it.
If you have the firmware prom and you want to sell it. Go for it. Monty did it for YEARS. But you cannot copy and distribute the IMAGE of the code on the prom since it is copyrighted for use on that chip.
Someone correct me if I am wrong but that is my interpretation.
JAYMZ
"Mom and dad say I should make my life an example of the principles I believe in. But every time I do, they tell me to stop it."
Calvin
"Mom and dad say I should make my life an example of the principles I believe in. But every time I do, they tell me to stop it."
Calvin
I am going to be speaking with the moderator team to come up with something about this, and figure out where we are going to go with this.
As far as I am concerned, Firmware is M's IP, and is not something you can ask for or offer up here as of now.
If Bat has posted that he wants it on his site, good for him.
We will talk about this and decide how to proceed on some of these issues - as you guys bring up excellent points.
-Alex
As far as I am concerned, Firmware is M's IP, and is not something you can ask for or offer up here as of now.
If Bat has posted that he wants it on his site, good for him.
We will talk about this and decide how to proceed on some of these issues - as you guys bring up excellent points.
-Alex
The Radio Information Board: http://www.radioinfoboard.com
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.
Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.
