I Need Help with My New Console

[motofreak008]

Hello all.

As the subject said, I just got a new console and I need some help getting it set up. It looks like a Centracom, but does not say that any where. It is a model B1630A. It came with a regular desk mic and that is it. I just need to know what else I need to get and what to do to get it to work. Any help would be appreciated!

[Bruce1807]

post a photo

[motofreak008]

I bought it on eBay, here is the number 330154549061. Let me know what you think.

[Batwings21]

It is a Centracom 2 Dispatcher. If I remember correctly The dispatcher was just a fancy name for a one position compact cc2 with one cardcage in a small cabinet. You will need a CEB, basically. Its should have at least 1 power supply, 1 cardcage, 1 system timer, 1 Omi;Tomi or COIM, depending on what you can find and what you have available to program it, and an appropriate BIM for each radio you want to control.

[motofreak008]

I already bought this CEB, 150153017070 on eBay again. Is it the right kind?

[emsbuff3240]

that is just the power supply.

You will still need the card cage, and the proper cards to go in it.

[motofreak008]

Does anyone know where I can just get a manual for this? I have tried to read some posts here and they just confuse me. I know that it may sound weird, but I would rather read what /\/\ has to say and ask you guys questions along the way.

[motofreak008]

I got the CEB in and realized that it doesn't power the console. I would like to power up the console, what is needed to just power up the console. What BIM card do I need. I guess I need to know what I need so I can RX only on some channels and TX/RX on some channels. How many radios do I need and what else. I know it has been listed, but what are the things you are telling me to get? Any help would be nice. Thanks!

[RKG]

With all due respect, I think you need to slow down.

Start with the concept of a wireline remote control device (such as the common telephone-like things). These can control a remote radio via wireline one of three ways: by sending DC current levels to indicate a desired function (requires copper circuits and all but obsolete today); by sending "Tone Remote Control" "Function Tones," a form of burst tone in the range (approximately) of 650 Hz to 2050 Hz (in even 100 Hz increments) (requires only an audio grade circuit and is commonly used with leased phone lines, as well as leased or owned fiber); and "E&M" signalling. Both DC and TRC superimpose the control indication on the audio lines that carry Rx and Tx audio to and from the distant station; only 2 wires are required (though use of 4 wires for separate Rx and Tx paths is common); E&M requires 6 wires, as PTT, COR and other functions are indicated by dedicated conductors. E&M is most often found where the remote is controlling a co- or nearby-located mobile radio.

OK, now lets assume our "dispatcher" has to control multiple radios, via multiple "lines." He could have a separate remote, with separate speakers and separate mikes, for each line. Or he could come up with a device that uses a single mike, two speakers (one for the "selected" line and one summing all of the others), and a fairly sophisticated devices to handle switching amongst them.

That is basically what a console is. In general, it has one or more "operator positions" with buttons and lights or CRT screens and icons, and it has a central electronics bank. That bank will have a card for connecting to each operator position (probably a COIM in Motorola-speak). It will have a card for connecting to each radio (and performing the required DC, TRC or E&M conversions) (a BIM, in the same arcane language). It is likely to have additional cards for handling traffic conversions and direction, patch formation, multi-selects, auxiliary input and output, receiver status, ANI detection and response, and a host of other functions.

There are basically two manufacturers of consoles. Zetron makes a line called "Series 4000," which, while quite flexible, uses a fairly stable construct and constituent parts. Motorola over the years has made a series of console products, which are exceedingly complicated, tend to be marketed before being matured (and withdrawn from the market before or no later than achieving maturation), and usually can be designed, procured, installed, and programmed only by highly specialized folks.

What you have done is to come along and acquire a couple of parts that, by themselves, are fairly useless unless employed in a coherently designed console system, a bit like coming up with one steering wheel, one hub cap, and one tail-light, and saying, "OK, now how to I make a car?" And, regrettably, you have dabbled in one of the more complex console universes.

I mean no offense, but I believe the reality is that, unless you are willing to invest far more time (months if not years) and far more dollars than any hobby warrants, I'd move on to some other project.

Anyone think I'm overly pessimistic?

[xmo]

"...Anyone think I'm overly pessimistic?..."

Spot on.

The items previously referenced are a B1630A Centracom II Compact button & LED operator position and ebay item 150153017070 which is an operator position power supply.

To see what a Centracom CEB looks like, follow this link:

http://www.ka4bni.com/THP_room2.htm

The upper picture shows CRT based operator positions, the lower picture shows a CEB and several radios [base stations, control stations, repeaters, etc.]

That's what's involved in creating a working system. That CEB has several card cages. A small CEB can be created with one card cage and power supply.

A lot of knowledge required, no matter the size.

[motofreak008]

The pictures in the previous post show a lot, but that is not what I have. Here is what I have.

Is there still a difference?

[RKG]

No; what we said still goes.

In essence, what you have is a box with a bunch of buttons, lights, and a VU meter. All the buttons do, however, is to tell the CEB that Button X has been pressed or Button X has been released, and then only if properly connected to a properly populated and programmed CEB. You cannot connect your operator position box directly to radios, but only to the CEB, which is in turn connected to radios, Aux I/O points, and whatever else.

If you go to http://www.zetron.com/data/site/content ... 20Spec.pdf
you will find a possibly informative outline of what it takes to make up a console. (Even though it is Zetron, not Motorola, the principles and equipment requirements adhere to the same basic architecture.) And if you want more, you might phone Zetron for their document (forget the exact title) for spec'ing and ordering a console; it has diagrams that make some of what we have told you possibly clearer.

[emsbuff3240]

I know... i know no links to ebay, but this does not come up often and this is what he needs, as well as someone who really knows what they are doing to set it up:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-Centracom- ... dZViewItem

[d119]

I know... i know no links to ebay, but this does not come up often and this is what he needs, as well as someone who really knows what they are doing to set it up:

http://cgi.ebay.com/Motorola-Centracom- ... dZViewItem

That's not what he needs. That's a rack full of BIM's. He also needs TOMI's and a System Timer (preferably two).

There's a LOT involved in this stuff... My $0.02 is put the console back on eBay and get yourself a CommandPLUS, as it's all self-contained.

[RKG]

Or a Zetron 4010, which also contains the channels cards and all required electronics in a single unit, either desktop or rack mount. The only downside of self-contained units like these is if youi set up multiple operator positions; now all of the cards have to run in parallel and the audio balancing can be an issue.

For my money, the Zetron is far easier to set up and maintain than the Command Plus (or its GaiTronics equivalent).

[motofreak008]

Okay, I don't mean to offend anybody but I just want say that I am Motorola all the way. I don't care about the other brands, if I buy cell phones, or radios, I buy Motorola. I think they are the only way to go in communication products. So, I am not interested in the Zetron products. They may work well, but I don't want them.

Alright let me get to what I wanted to say. I got to reading a bit on CommandPlus and CommandStar consoles. The website I found them on claim that they are all in one pretty much. Does that mean they don't need a CEB at all? Pretty much how I understand how these consoles work is you just connect the radios to them. Is that right? If so, I am pretty upset with myself for what I got myself into. Which console would you suggest I look to purchase? I guess I would like to have paging capabilities, but it isn't that important. Also, can these consoles handle trunking?

Thanks for all of the input you guys (and gals) have given me. I guess I now have a CEB power supply I don't need, but I would like to get the power cord for the console. Just to say I have a cool looking console that lights up.

[k2hz]

Pretty much how I understand how these consoles work is you just connect the radios to them.

Before you get any deeper into the console issues, are you familiar with radio remote control technology?

"Just connect the radios" means that the radio has an appropriate control interface
(DC, Tone or E&M signaling, 2 or 4 wire audio) and there is an appropriate interface capability in the console.

[RKG]

Endorsing what k2hz advocates, let me add:

So-called "desktop" consoles are devices that, in the console construct, aggregate both Operator Position and CEB functions in one box. Usually, the Operator Position hardware is contained in the front plane and is pre-wired into the box bus, together with the traffic control and timing functions. You then plug in channel cards, the equivalent of BIMs, into slots inside the box. It is these cards that you then connect to radios.

BIM means Base Interface Module, and a BIM is basically a remote control or extended local control. There are BIMs that will do Tone Remote Control, BIMs that will do DC remote control, and BIMs that will do Extended Local Control (sometimes a/k/a E&M). How you connect the radio and what type of radio you can connect depends on what kind of BIM you have and what kind of remote control function you intend to employ.

I will not enter any discussion of whose product is "better," Motorola or Zetron. (Which is not to say that I don't have strong views, based on experience with both.) My proffer of Zetron in this context is, or was, based on the fact that Zetron does a far better job of putting out documentation that educates the customer as to what a console is and how to design one to do what you want to do. What you can learn from this documentation is not limited to Zetron products.

[Rayjk110]

I used to have one of these that was practically given to me. It's a PITA to find all the correct pieces necessary to make the thing work. Looked neat, but didn't do much. I eventually ended up gutting mine and made it into a monitor housing on my desk.

[motofreak008]

I know what you mean Rayjk110. It is quite annoying. I have to say, Big M wasn't thinking very well when they thought of the Centracom. It was a good idea, but it seems to me, it is hard and you have to be very smart to set one up. Why can't they (as in almost all companies) just make things easy to set up? Why is it always hard? I guess life would be too easy then.

So about the CommandPlus, I guess I didn't understand. Is the BIM in the console or is that what hooks up into the back of the console? What would you suggest for a console that listens to a few channels and talks and listens to a few others? Would one radio work, or would I have to get one radio per BIM? Hopefully the CommandPlus is easier than the Centracom in this area.

[d119]

I know what you mean Rayjk110. It is quite annoying. I have to say, Big M wasn't thinking very well when they thought of the Centracom. It was a good idea, but it seems to me, it is hard and you have to be very smart to set one up.

The hell they weren't! And I say this speaking as a Centracom tech. Hell yes, you have to be smart, AND PATIENT to set one up. It's a HUGE, complex system with THOUSANDS of possible configurations. SORRY it's not a toaster.

These things were designed to be used in public safety environments with multiple consoles and multiple radios connected into the system. They were not designed for do-it-yourselfers, amateurs, "home use", or anything like that.

Don't go slamming the company because you can't easily make it work. It's your problem, not theirs.

You need a CEB for this unit with the following at bare minimum:

1 Card Cage
1 Power supply with power cables to connect to card cage
1 System Timer, BLN7011 (current) or the earlier unit for the Centracom II/II+. 2 system timers is preferred for redundancy.
1 TOMI (Trunked Operator Multiplex Interface), yes, even for conventional operation you need this card.
1 BIM per radio
1 DC Daughterboard per BIM if you're going to run DC signalling
1 RS-232 interface card to program said TOMI
1 RS-232 programming cable to program said TOMI
1 licensed copy of the Centracom RSS to program said TOMI
1 CEB cable to OP cable to connect the console to the CEB
1 CEB cable to punchblock for radio interfacing
1 punchblock for radio interfacing
1 Tone or DC adapter per radio to interface radios to the system (adapter goes on radio end)
1 AUX-I or AUX-II card if you're going to interface your radios using logic-level signalling instead of tone (delete tone remote adapter above in this case)
1 person with enough patience to explain it all to you.

Now on the other hand, if you want to get the MOTOROLA CommandPLUS console, this is an all-in one. You'd need the following:

1 CommandPLUS console
1 power supply for above
1 punchblock and interface cable to console
1 copy of CommandPLUS RSS for programming and programming cable
1 tone/DC remote adaptor for each radio connected to the console.

There ya go.
1 programming cable

[motofreak008]

Sorry if I hit a nerve. I just think that it could've made more sense to make it easier. But, that is my opinion. I am not slamming you and I am not trying to make a war. You have your opinion and I have mine and I respect that. Thanks for the whole list of what I need, though. Sounds like people like you are hard to come by. (As in being able to set up a Centracom.)

[d119]

Sorry if I hit a nerve. I just think that it could've made more sense to make it easier. But, that is my opinion. I am not slamming you and I am not trying to make a war. You have your opinion and I have mine and I respect that. Thanks for the whole list of what I need, though. Sounds like people like you are hard to come by. (As in being able to set up a Centracom.)

If you need further help with it, feel free to contact me, I'll be glad to help where I can. But patience is a must when it comes to Centracom, it's a mighty beast.