Batboard

Hi all!

Anybody has noticed that PL/DLP SQL on XTS3000 a little bit (not fatally!) rough?

I’ll try to explain.

I have few conventional personalities programmed with PL (or DPL) on RX. And when repeater signal get very weak (appreciable noises under voice signal, but voice still recognizable; distance from antenna farm approx. 15 miles), XTS3000 begins flapping (very quickly opens and closes receiver - up to 3..4 flaps due the 2 seconds).

Turning On of the Monitor function (PL Disable) makes reception more stable - flaps quantity decreases to 1..2 due the 5 seconds. And listening becomes more pleasant (because listening a continuous signal more comfortable, than a signal with flaps).

More info: UHF band, ¼ whip antenna, repeater is Motorola Quantar. No simulcast. Radio is immovable in this test.

Personalities programmed as:

Mute/Unmute type = Standard
RX Voice/Signal type = Mixed Mode
RX Unmute Delay = 2 (100)
Squelch (Fine Tune) = 1

I tried to change Mute/Unmute type, RX Unmute Delay and Squelch (Fine Tune) to many different combinations, but no luck.

I have compared XTS3000 reception on MTS2000 and it have a less flaps than XTS3000.

Sensitivity of MTS2000 and XTS3000 with opened SQL (PL Disabled) appears to be an equal or even XTS3000 a little bit sensitive.

But MTS2000 (without PL Disabled option) decodes weak signal with PL (holds opened receiver) a little bit confidently.

This is normally or may be alignment/firmware issue?

There is legit radio and must have factory alignment. I checked softpots in tuner and they appears as NOT default (like is in Chinese radios).

Any well-considered comments will be appreciated!

P.S.
Radio FW 07.04.00.00, Host N07.03.16.

I would try changing the mute/unmute to "and/or", as well change the RX Unmute Delay to "0". This should help...if it doesn't, you may need the squelch level adjusted with the Tuner software, beyond what the 'fine tune' can do with the CPS.

wavetar wrote:I would try changing the mute/unmute to "and/or", as well change the RX Unmute Delay to "0". This should help...if it doesn't, you may need the squelch level adjusted with the Tuner software, beyond what the 'fine tune' can do with the CPS.

Agreed, but I do have a question. Wouldn't the "and/or" setting make the squelch gate more descriminitory, not less? Forcing two criteria to be required for the gate to open, but closing squelch on the loss of either. Seems like with his situation, being at the weak signal fringe, you'd want to leave squelch open as long as possible to allow the rough but intelligible audio through. Just thinking out loud, but no doubt you've got a lot more experience with Moto than I do so I'd yeild to your better judgement. Thanks man!

// EDIT 22MAY2009 1614Z // This is all assuming MotoFan doesn't operate in an overly saturated EME and doesn't share close channel assignment with his neighbors. // EDIT 22MAY2009 1614Z //

Thank you for reply!

wavetar wrote:I would try changing the mute/unmute to "and/or", as well change the RX Unmute Delay to "0".

As I remember, I already tried all combinations. And no any audible changes. But I will check again to be absolutely sure and let you know here.

This should help...if it doesn't, you may need the squelch level adjusted with the Tuner software, beyond what the 'fine tune' can do with the CPS.

I hope that problem not in CSQ settings ("Fine Tune" in regular CPS and "Master Squelch Value"). Just because carrier squelch (CSQ) works correctly. It follows from my experiment with "PL Disable" (this option disables sub-tone decoder and makes active carrier decoder only).

I hope that problem in PL/DLP decoder sensitivity.

I know from theory that PL decoder required better SNR (Signal Noise Ratio) than carrier decoder. And that DPL decoder required better SNR than PL decoder. And it’s perfectly clear why.

But I want to know why fresher XTS3000 needs greater SNR than older MTS2000 to decode PL/DPL?

P.S.
Any settings in Astro Tuner which affects on PL/DPL decoder perfomance?

I had similar issues on an XTS3000 as well.

I set the squelch type to "STANDARD" and that did the trick, it then functioned properly in the fringes. I also set the squelch fine tune lower as well.

AND/OR and the other options are more discriminatory than STANDARD in that standard allows for loss of the PL for short amounts of time without muting the speaker for times when the signal starts to chop up.

-Josh

wavetar wrote:I would try changing the mute/unmute to "and/or", as well change the RX Unmute Delay to "0". This should help...

No. It does NOT help. The same clappy reception :(

Josh wrote:I set the squelch type to "STANDARD" and that did the trick, it then functioned properly in the fringes. I also set the squelch fine tune lower as well.

When Mute/Unmute Type = "Standard", "Squelch (Fine tune)" value actually does NOT used by receiver (just because carrier detector turned off).

You can set it to 15 (maximum value) and try - you still be able to receive all weak signals with proper PL/DPL.

I tried another XTS3000 (from the same agency) and it works absolutely identically to described above radio.

Maybe any changes in PL/DPL decoder have been made in fresher firmware/DSP?

Latest FW is R07.71.06 and DSP R08.03.05.

Tested radios have FW 07.04.00.00 and DSP N07.03.16.

MotoFAN wrote:I tried another XTS3000 (from the same agency) and it works absolutely identically to described above radio.

Maybe any changes in PL/DPL decoder have been made in fresher firmware/DSP?

Latest FW is R07.71.06 and DSP R08.03.05.

Tested radios have FW 07.04.00.00 and DSP N07.03.16.

This was done with changing the radio squelch requirements to "standard" on one? You won't notice change unless it is.

My XTS3k is Host/DSP 7 as well, so it's not the age of the firmware.

Is your quantar transmitting PL or DPL?

Pj wrote:Is your quantar transmitting PL or DPL?

Yes. I test radios on two different channels. On the first channel Quantar transmits PL and on the second channel Quantar transmits DPL.

P.S.
Do you have XTS3000 in your collection? I have compared today XTS3000 with MTS2000 and few Vertex radios, and only XTS3000 'claps' on these repeaters :(

Josh wrote:This was done with changing the radio squelch requirements to "standard" on one? You won't notice change unless it is.

My XTS3k is Host/DSP 7 as well, so it's not the age of the firmware.

Yes, I have reprogrammed second radio to the same settings. And also tried "Standard". No luck :(

I upgraded my radios to current Host/DPS, but no positive changes

MotoFAN wrote:I upgraded my radios to current Host/DPS, but no positive changes

How about the squelch settings? Have you tried lowering them?

Josh wrote:How about the squelch settings? Have you tried lowering them?

Of course, problem isn't here.

And please re-read this message: http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... 35#p380883