R1225 interfacing problem with CSI32 Tone Panel

[Carl]

Hi,
i have a RKR1225 and i want to hook a CSI-32 Tone panel on it. I think i have an error on the cabling or programming because the audio when i key it transmit a "MMMEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP" on the air, only when someone is talking and its not their voice but this noise. I guess my COR, and TX ptt is correct because it keys and hold the tx time. I'm using the ZR-310 configuration template in the accys. All in flat audio. The R1225 itself is programmed as a repeater with external controler and TX/RX Freq's are in CSQ. This is my wiring :

R1225------------------------------------------------------- Tone Panel DB9
Pin2Ext.MicAudio---------------------------------------Repeat Audio Output
Pin3PTT--------------------------------------------------TX PTT
Pin4CSQdetect------------------------------------------COS Input
Pin7GND-------------------------------------------------Ground
Pin11RXaudio/flat/unmuted--------------------------RX Disc. Input

Did i miss something or mismatch a cross-connect ?

[Bill_G]

Does the 1225 repeat with the tone panel removed? Does it make the beep in stand alone? Generally you set radios as base stations when you use an external control. Perhaps you are getting an error tone because the PTT from the tone panel is being applied as the 1225 tries to internally repeat, OR you have to tx audio circuits bucking each other making the tone. Work backwards a little bit until the tone goes away.

[Carl]

thanks for the reply, Yes the repeater is working with the tone panel removed and correctly programmed (hang time, PL instead of CSQ, half-duplex repeater mode) First step i tried when i get my problem is to set the r1225 as a base and i get the same result : noise and no comprhensive audio. When i key with an HT, the PL tone displays on the controler and it starts to key the TX like it should, but no success... it's been to long since i touch the radio world i guess...

[Bill_G]

Disconnect the tone panel from the radio. Manually COR the tone panel and check it's xmit out with a scope. Likewise manually key the 1225 and see if it still beeps.

[Carl]

ok, but first did my wiring looks ok or i inverted something ? I also have the service manual for the tone panel but no scope/service monitor or anything except a multimeter.. I'm using this device :

[Bill_G]

R1225------------------------------------------------------- Tone Panel DB9
Pin2Ext.MicAudio---------------------------------------Repeat Audio Output
Pin3PTT--------------------------------------------------TX PTT
Pin4CSQdetect------------------------------------------COS Input
Pin7GND-------------------------------------------------Ground
Pin11RXaudio/flat/unmuted--------------------------RX Disc. Input

You could try changing from pin 2 mic input to pin 5 flat tx audio input too see if you have too much gain causing xmit audio wierdness.

Does your voltmeter have an ac volt function and/or a freq counter? You can manually apply cor to the tone panel and measure the repeat audio out line to see if the beep is present. Or you might be able to earball it with an intercom amp or an inductive coupler (the hound portion of a fox & hound telco line locator). RS sells some low cost battery powered intercom amps that are great for monitoring low impedance lines.

[Carl]

i just made the correction you tell me and i works perfectly for the RX, but when it transmit, it TX only in CSQ, my controler see the tone and it displays in the LCD, i trried to invalid the tone and the desired effect works = no TX. I noticed in the previous post i forget to ask about the SUB AUDIBLE TONE OUTPUT on the DB9 of my controler, now i wonder where this one goes ? Im pretty sure it will solve my pl problem because it TX on CSQ

[Carl]

i plu my fluke78 on the SUB AUDIBLE TONE OUTPUT and it gives me 151.4hz, like the tone i'm using in my ht's. Should this signal be mixed to another pin with a internal jumper configuration on my CSI32 ?

[Bill_G]

Have you got the tone panel manual? I'm not familiar with the model. There's a couple things you need to know.

Does it apply deemphasis to the rx audio?
Can it apply preemphasis to the tx audio?
Can the PL and repeat audio be jumpered together internally?

If it deemphasizes the rx, then you need to apply preemphasis to the tx audio before it is goes into the flat tx input. If not, then you're golden - you can pass the flat rx audio already preemphasized by the transmitting mobile user radio right back out into the flat tx input unchanged. It will probably sound a bit tinny or "bright", but not bad if the deviation is set a teensy bit low.

As for the PL tone, you can try tying the two pins repeat audio and subaudible tone together to see what happens. Hopefully they have separate level adjustments. You may have to build a bridge to balance the levels and keep the two sections from loading each other. It would be kinda handy to know what their impedance is.

[Carl]

in my tone panel manual, on the Repeat audio processing configuration i got :
___________________________JU1________JU2
repeat audio de-emphasized :___in_________in
repeat audio flat :_____________in________removed
repeat audio pre-emphasized :_removed ___removed

both jumper are in place right now, should i remove both ?

[Bill_G]

You said it sounded good. So, I'd leave JU1 in and take JU2 out to see how that sounds.

[Carl]

still not working even with multiple jumper configuration and doubling the wire to "repeat audio output" and sub-audible tone output defenetly don't know where this wire goes.

[Bill_G]

Put both of the jumpers back into the panel. We can worry about those later. You said repeat sounds good. I'm betting JU1 in and JU2 out is the correct combo. Let's focus on the xmit PL tone. Take the repeat audio line off Pin 2 to the 1225 and hookup just the tone output to Pin 2. You said you measured 151.4hz on the line earlier. What voltage (ac scale), and is it adjustable? I would expect to see something in the range of 200 to 400mv range. With just the tone line hooked up to pin 2 flat xmit audio, does your HT decode properly?

[Carl]

yes every pin is ajustable with his own pot, i finaly got it to work by putting back both jumper inside the tone panel and cross-connecting sub-tone and the repeat audio out on the same pin wich i think is 5 or 2 can't remember exactly. For now it looks "good" on the audio but its not holding the pl during the entire repeater 3 sec. hang time but it's a details at this point. I guess i'll need to bring the repeater to local radio shop to get it tuned and make sure the tone panel adjustments are clean cut for my repeater because i now have the previous owner adjustments. when i'm holding the ptt from an ht, i can ear the sub audible tone but not to be freaked out, i guess its normal until it get adjusted correctly. A big thank you for your support and help, very appreciated

[Bill_G]

You're welcome Carl. I'm glad it worked. Good job. Now you have a new machine to put on the air.

This project demonstrated the importance of test equipment. An oscilloscope would have been handy. There are several *free* audio scopes to download that use your sound card as the input device. The hard part is building an interface box for the probe, and getting the cal roughed in. But, they work pretty good.

If you can hear the PL tone in your portable, then I'm betting it's too loud. It should roughly be 20 percent of the repeat audio at the flat input. Someone with a service monitor will be able to dial it in for you. They can also help you determine which of the equalization jumpers need to be in so your repeat sounds natural.

Have fun. Cheers!