Hi all:
I programed my xts 3000 but it dosn't seem to want to affiliate with the system. When powered up the tx light blinks that it is trying to enter the system but then a tone comes on and will go on and off every ten seconds until turned off. The affiliation signature is good because I cloned the radio off one that works fine. Any suggestions.
Thanks, Dave
xts 3000 affiliation
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Without knowing more about the system you're trying to affiliate to, I'd guess that the controller has detected that the Radio ID is unauthorized (the ID mask can be programmed to detect two simultaneous affiliations from the same ID and declare it bootlegged) and is trying to "radio kill" your radio. Otherwise, I'm inclined to the same reaction as r0f. Affiliation is an act of transmitting on the system, and if you are not an authorized user, you should not be trying to transmit on their system.
Also maybe during the clone all the trunked parameters did not clone over.
Usually during the F5 clone everything will clone except the ID. Maybe the ID you have isn't a valid ID on the system.
If you are a legit user on the system then bring the radio to whoever does the programming for that system and have them do it and assign you a unique ID.
If you are not an authorized user on the system you should not be transmitting. Having duplicate IDs on some systems can cause a radio to deaffiliate. Imagine a public safety officer's radio deaffiliates during a chase! This could be life threatening. Talk about recipe for disaster!
George
Usually during the F5 clone everything will clone except the ID. Maybe the ID you have isn't a valid ID on the system.
If you are a legit user on the system then bring the radio to whoever does the programming for that system and have them do it and assign you a unique ID.
If you are not an authorized user on the system you should not be transmitting. Having duplicate IDs on some systems can cause a radio to deaffiliate. Imagine a public safety officer's radio deaffiliates during a chase! This could be life threatening. Talk about recipe for disaster!
George
xts affiliation
For all who are concerned I am an authorized user on the system. I got this radio from another department and being a Ham I wanted to experament on my own and problem solve. The cloning portable is issued to me and I have my own I.D. The idea that the system might see a duplicate radio on the system makes sense, I'll have to give it some thought. If all else fails I'll just take the radio to the system administrator and have it programed but thanks to all for your concern and ideas.
Dave
Dave
It is a hard rule that if you issue two portables to the same trooper (for whatever reason), they MUST have different RadioIDs. (This, of course, makes like difficult if the RadioID is based on the trooper's personal ID, but that is a different story.)
There are 48,000 possible RadioIDs in a SmartNet system. If your organization is small enough, you can multiply the source ID by 10 (e.g., Trooper 517 becomes RadioID 5170 (decimal, which translates into 1432h), and then append a value to the units digit for auxiliary radios (e.g., Trooper 517's off-duty radio has RadioID 5171 (or 1433h)).
There are 48,000 possible RadioIDs in a SmartNet system. If your organization is small enough, you can multiply the source ID by 10 (e.g., Trooper 517 becomes RadioID 5170 (decimal, which translates into 1432h), and then append a value to the units digit for auxiliary radios (e.g., Trooper 517's off-duty radio has RadioID 5171 (or 1433h)).
XTS3000 Affiliation on Multiple Systems
I have just bought and XTS3000 for use on multiple systems. I am a Deputy in one county using a Type II Digital System and a volunteer firefighter in another county using a Type II analog system plus I have a public subsciption service I use that is a Type I. How do I set the radio up so that when I am in one county and in range of that system the radio affliates with the correct system and doesn't try to affliate with the system I am out of range from? Is this a difficult task, or even possible? My idea in getting the XTS was that I can put all systems in one radio and not have to worry about carrying the right radio.
Re: XTS3000 Affiliation on Multiple Systems
There will be no automatic way to make the radio switch systems based on where you are. You can, however, set the radio up so that you can change zones and get different systems.chiefhal3 wrote:I have just bought and XTS3000 for use on multiple systems. I am a Deputy in one county using a Type II Digital System and a volunteer firefighter in another county using a Type II analog system plus I have a public subsciption service I use that is a Type I. How do I set the radio up so that when I am in one county and in range of that system the radio affliates with the correct system and doesn't try to affliate with the system I am out of range from? Is this a difficult task, or even possible? My idea in getting the XTS was that I can put all systems in one radio and not have to worry about carrying the right radio.
For example, You go in and setup 3 trunking systems in the RSS. You then go in and setup your trunking personalities and talkgroups.
Set each set of talkgroups to one Zone in the radio. When you change zones, it changes systems based on the selected channel. This will cause the radio to re-affiliate with another system and work the way you want it to.
This will require you to have the system keys for the systems on which you'd like your radios programmed up.
Keep in mind most county radio shops might be more supportive of helping you if you have a legit radio (e.g. legit flash + serial number) so they can track it.
-Alex
Except that most legitimate radio shops will not program a trunked radio without also having some proof that the person is an authorized user of the system.
Since trunked systems require some fairly complex planning that may be unique to the system (witness the RadioID issue in this thread), it is usual for the system operator to handle programming on their own, and for that reason it is unusual for someone to walk into a radio shop and ask to have a trunked radio programmed. Frankly, my eyebrows would be raised.
Since trunked systems require some fairly complex planning that may be unique to the system (witness the RadioID issue in this thread), it is usual for the system operator to handle programming on their own, and for that reason it is unusual for someone to walk into a radio shop and ask to have a trunked radio programmed. Frankly, my eyebrows would be raised.
Well I don't see anything about any radio shop besides what Alex said about the county radio shops, and I would bet that they either know or can find out who is authorized and who is not. It sounds like he is an authorized user of the system if he is going to take the radio the system administrator.
Well the good news is that while it is two different shops that do the programing for the two counties they are both owned by the same family. And yes I am an authorized user on all the systems being programmed and even though I did buy the radio used, it is a serial numbered unit with a valid flash and I bought it from a fellow deputy who is also a fellow Batlabber, so I hope it isn't stolen. The only problem is that while the tech's are good guys and I am sure they are very knowledge able, they haven't done this before and based on previous conversations I think I may have to explain how I want it programed to get it done so it works the way I want it. For the most part they ussually have a preset way they program different users radios for example. A patrol car in one county is on one system and has certain talk groups and all the cars are setup the same with supervisors and so on having a few more channels along with some specialized units. Fire units within that same county also are pretty much standard. The problem is now I want to mess those preset groups of talkgroups into one radio on two different systems, plus and here's the kicker, I want to use my subscription service with a non government system on that radio as well and neither of these two shops are servicing that system. It is owned by a guy out of town and is pretty hard to work with. He used to have the motorola shop here and big M took it from him. I am sure that either shop I use can do the programming as they have done some minor stuff in the past for me such as changing modes around and scan lists and such.
It is actually an old but still operating privacy plus system that we have quit using the phone service on but still use the system to talk on various radios for our private business as well as gossip and decide where to eat and what movie to go see and who's doing who. Ooops, I guess we need to get a secure channel for the last. I'll make a note of that. We have about 20 radios talking on it that are not on the public safety systems. My hope was by purchasing a radio that would do everything I could get everything on one radio. Obviously, it is becoming a more complicated deal than I first thought but I think it will work. What I was trying to figure out is how to make sure the radio isn't giving me the out of range beep all the time when I am away from one of the systems but working on the others. I think the advice of setting everything up is zones will work. I just have to explain it to the tech. I imagine he will understand. Thanks to all who have replied with insight both online and in PM's plus I welcome anymore constructive ideas.
If I get the drift here properly, it may be that you contemplate a scan list that would scan talkgroups from two of more different systems at the same time. This is known as cross-system scan, and it is permissible so long as you give up having a scan priority.
However, cross-system scan is not recommended. Unlike the scan function on conventional radios, trunked radios obtain their information about active channels from the control channel data stream (not by sequencing through the voice channels). A trunked radio can listen to only one system's control channel at a time, and if you have invoked cross-system scan, what it does is to listen to the control channel for System 1 until a certain amount of time has passed without activity. When that happens, it sequences to the control channel for System 2, and so forth. (If conventional channels are also in the scan list, the radio then sequences through the list once, looking for valid freq and tone, and when it gets through the pass of the list, it then reverts to the control channel for System 1 again.)
What this means is that, if you use cross-system scan, you have a high probability of missing traffic on one of the scan list member talkgroups, even though the radio is otherwise silent, and you can't mitigate this by having your "do or die" channel set as the priority channel. In my neck of the woods, cross-system scan is verboten for public safety use.
One other observation: the county's radio shops are not going to be able to program the SMRS system into your radio unless they have access to the SMRS system's "system key;" unless they are also the service facility for the SMRS, that is unlikely.
However, cross-system scan is not recommended. Unlike the scan function on conventional radios, trunked radios obtain their information about active channels from the control channel data stream (not by sequencing through the voice channels). A trunked radio can listen to only one system's control channel at a time, and if you have invoked cross-system scan, what it does is to listen to the control channel for System 1 until a certain amount of time has passed without activity. When that happens, it sequences to the control channel for System 2, and so forth. (If conventional channels are also in the scan list, the radio then sequences through the list once, looking for valid freq and tone, and when it gets through the pass of the list, it then reverts to the control channel for System 1 again.)
What this means is that, if you use cross-system scan, you have a high probability of missing traffic on one of the scan list member talkgroups, even though the radio is otherwise silent, and you can't mitigate this by having your "do or die" channel set as the priority channel. In my neck of the woods, cross-system scan is verboten for public safety use.
One other observation: the county's radio shops are not going to be able to program the SMRS system into your radio unless they have access to the SMRS system's "system key;" unless they are also the service facility for the SMRS, that is unlikely.
XTS
Will an XTS work on a privacy plus system for TX and RX ???? My understanding was unless the system was set up for it , and the fact you mentioned it was an old commercial system makes it unlikely even using Hybrid settings IIi in the radio, you will not get it to work... I could be wrong...It is actually an old but still operating privacy plus system
I also would recommend against the cross system scanning if you are going to user the radio for work purposes and you are in service on a talkgroup... Another thought is to use the ABC switch for rapid selection
between zones since it doesn't sound like you have that many talkgroups
flip a switch and your on the proper set of talkgroups for the area.
I talked with the system administrator for the Type I system in question yesterday. He told me that it was set up for IIi Hybrid and he is giving me a new radio ID that will work with those settings. Apparently the radio id I had before wasn't allowed or setup for IIi. I wasn't aware that there was a difference in ID's, I mistakenly thought and ID was an ID.
As for scanning I previously had different radios for the different systems. That is something I am going to have to look at. I thought as long as I kept my scan lists with in zones I could still have a priority mode. Is that not correct?
As for scanning I previously had different radios for the different systems. That is something I am going to have to look at. I thought as long as I kept my scan lists with in zones I could still have a priority mode. Is that not correct?
Scan Lists
Have the scan list set for Priority Monitor and it will allow for scanning of the system you have in that zone. So for example County A: place it in zone 1, with priority scan and you will only be scanning the County A; talkgroups... County B in the B zone also set with a scanlist for its talkgroups...The priority also gives you options for a selected priority 1 the knob postion and for a preselected priority 1 in the programming of the scanlist
Basically you will have 2 systems with 2 personalities and 2 scan lists, with at least 2 zones. Also if you have extra conventionals or even add your private system to the empy spots left in either zone , that will work, But just remember using priority monitor scan will not allow for them to be in the scan list since they are not from the same system.
Basically you will have 2 systems with 2 personalities and 2 scan lists, with at least 2 zones. Also if you have extra conventionals or even add your private system to the empy spots left in either zone , that will work, But just remember using priority monitor scan will not allow for them to be in the scan list since they are not from the same system.
Let me calibrate 1 Adam 12's response just slightly:
1. A scan list that permits priority scanning is limited to one trunking system.
There are three choices of scan list type: Conventional (limited to conventional channels or "personalities"); Talkgroup (allows mixing of talkgroups from different systems and conventionals); Priority Monitor. If you select "Priority Monitor," you have to select the "system" (previously defined on another screen) with which this scan list is associated, and thereafter you will be allowed to populate this scan list only with talkgroups defined for "personalities" that are related to the selected "system."
2. Scan lists are tagged to "personalities" -- either a trunked personality or a conventional personality -- not to zones. The scan list that will be used is (a), if you invoke scan with the channel selector on a conventional personality, the scan list associated with that personality, and (b), if you invoke scan with the channel selector on a trunked talkgroup, the scan list associated with the trunked "personality" of which that talkgroup is a member.
You could, therefore, define a Priority Monitor scan list for a System 1 personality, and a Talkgroup Scan scan list for a System 2 personality. If you put a System 1 talkgroup in Zone 1, Slot 1 and a System 2 talkgroup in Zone 1, Slot 2, switching from Slot 1 to Slot 2 will switch the scan list (and scan list type) that is used for scanning. They don't have to be in separate zones.
3. You can define more than one trunked "personality" for a given trunked "system" (up to the limit of number of "personalities" allowed for your radio). This is how one gets around the 15 member maximum number of talkgroups that can be defined for a trunked personality, and how you can have both Type II and Type IIi talkgroups for the same "system."
4. Note that it would be entirely possible, after defining the trunked systems and personalities, to have a scan list attached to the personality of your "working" system personality that is a Priority Monitor scan list, and then to have a different scan list attached to the personality of your "non-working" trunked system (such as ChiefHal3's SMRS) that is a Talkgroup Scan scan list, and talkgroups in your "working system" can populate that second scan list. This way, when you're working, you have priority and won't miss traffic on your critical channel. When you switch to a "non-working" talkgroup (such as to talk), you'll still hear traffic on the working talkgroups, subject to the limitations of cross-system scan.
1. A scan list that permits priority scanning is limited to one trunking system.
There are three choices of scan list type: Conventional (limited to conventional channels or "personalities"); Talkgroup (allows mixing of talkgroups from different systems and conventionals); Priority Monitor. If you select "Priority Monitor," you have to select the "system" (previously defined on another screen) with which this scan list is associated, and thereafter you will be allowed to populate this scan list only with talkgroups defined for "personalities" that are related to the selected "system."
2. Scan lists are tagged to "personalities" -- either a trunked personality or a conventional personality -- not to zones. The scan list that will be used is (a), if you invoke scan with the channel selector on a conventional personality, the scan list associated with that personality, and (b), if you invoke scan with the channel selector on a trunked talkgroup, the scan list associated with the trunked "personality" of which that talkgroup is a member.
You could, therefore, define a Priority Monitor scan list for a System 1 personality, and a Talkgroup Scan scan list for a System 2 personality. If you put a System 1 talkgroup in Zone 1, Slot 1 and a System 2 talkgroup in Zone 1, Slot 2, switching from Slot 1 to Slot 2 will switch the scan list (and scan list type) that is used for scanning. They don't have to be in separate zones.
3. You can define more than one trunked "personality" for a given trunked "system" (up to the limit of number of "personalities" allowed for your radio). This is how one gets around the 15 member maximum number of talkgroups that can be defined for a trunked personality, and how you can have both Type II and Type IIi talkgroups for the same "system."
4. Note that it would be entirely possible, after defining the trunked systems and personalities, to have a scan list attached to the personality of your "working" system personality that is a Priority Monitor scan list, and then to have a different scan list attached to the personality of your "non-working" trunked system (such as ChiefHal3's SMRS) that is a Talkgroup Scan scan list, and talkgroups in your "working system" can populate that second scan list. This way, when you're working, you have priority and won't miss traffic on your critical channel. When you switch to a "non-working" talkgroup (such as to talk), you'll still hear traffic on the working talkgroups, subject to the limitations of cross-system scan.
I hope to have my XTS3000 back from the radio shop tomorrow. I will test it once I get it and make sure it functions as I hope it will. Thanks for all the input.
On a curious note, does any know if you can use the short antenna off an MTX8000 on an XTS3000. Both are in 800mHz? I would prefer the shorter antenna on my belt and we seem to have excellent coverage.
On a curious note, does any know if you can use the short antenna off an MTX8000 on an XTS3000. Both are in 800mHz? I would prefer the shorter antenna on my belt and we seem to have excellent coverage.
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N4DES
- was KS4VT
- Posts: 1234
- Joined: Thu Dec 25, 2003 7:59 am
- What radios do you own?: APX,XTS2500,XTL2500,XTL1500
It's not how you hear the system that makes the difference, it's the talk-back performance that count's. Leave on the long antenna as your dispatchers and other field units will have an easier time hearing you, especially in buldings. It may not look as cool, but that isn't what counts.chiefhal3 wrote:I hope to have my XTS3000 back from the radio shop tomorrow. I will test it once I get it and make sure it functions as I hope it will. Thanks for all the input.
On a curious note, does any know if you can use the short antenna off an MTX8000 on an XTS3000. Both are in 800mHz? I would prefer the shorter antenna on my belt and we seem to have excellent coverage.