ATG

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 11:06 am

Hey you guys, I havent been messing with the All Talk Group before, or Announcement Group feature on the Trunking on my AS3

Anyways On the Trunking Personality where it says Annoucement Group, do I just put 1? or for for the highest number to monitor all talkgroups?

Hope I didnt lose you guys lol

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Tue Jun 01, 2004 4:54 pm

You put in whatever the system or zone controller has been programmed for the ATG for that zone.

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 1:26 pm

hmmm, ok, I guess I will try diffrent number and see what comes up then.

Thanks

Post by **batdude** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 3:48 pm

let me tell you how my local system is set up.

we'll use the police talkgroups as an example.

(this is an OBT 400mhz system ...)

police 1 is hex 017
police 2 is hex 019

the police ATG is hex 015

i have always ASSUMED (i know ASS u ME) that if you monitor 015 that the radio will unmute for both 017 *AND* 019 --- but i have never verified this - sorry i'm lazy

i would also ASSUME that should the dispatcher switch to the ATG that ALL of the associated PD units (whether they were on police 1 *or* 2) - would unmute and receive the call....

is there something i'm not getting here?

there is another option that defines a SYSTEM WIDE talkgroup - basically an "ALL CALL" of all units currently affiliated with the system.... i've never (ever) heard this feature actually used....but i've often wondered if it actually works (since it would probably key every single repeater in the entire system)

doug

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Wed Jun 02, 2004 7:17 pm

Well, here is my result, I went ahead and Turn on the Annoucment Group, and made the hex ID to the last number, I think it was OFFE I think, I forgot, but its the last number... so you can miss it hehe.

Its a smartzone system am monitoring out here, on 400mhz...... So far I i am RX diffrent talkgroups, hard to say though, caues I dont have a scanner, that I can monitor the same time to see if there any other talkgroups that its not picking up.....

One Thing for sure though is once you have the ATG on.... you can assign a scan list to that personality, but you cant hadd ATG personality to a scan list.... anybody know why? I probably know the answer already, but anybodyo else know?

jhooten · Post by **jhooten** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 4:51 am

If you have ATG in your radio and are on the ATG you will hear all the talk groups affilated with that announcement group one at a time. If you transmit with your radio every in the announcement group will hear you no matter what talk group they are on. It also depends on what priority level is set for each talk group and the source of the announcement (be it the console or a subcriber unit).

Some ofthe supervisors here wanted to be able to listen to all the channels and could not figure out how to use scan. They would set their radios on the ATG to monitor. BUT they would forget to change back to the talk group they wanted when making a transmission. This caused some people to hear some things that they should not have heard and required some immediate damage control.

Be carefull who gets the ATG in their radios.

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Thu Jun 03, 2004 5:58 am

The TG ID for an ATG in a Type II system can be any valid ID in the block in use; there is no convention for using the lowest number, highest number or anything else. Usually, the ATG TG ID can be found in one of the scanner-enthusiast databases for the system in question.

Note that the possible TG IDs for a Type II system (from 000h through FFFh) are divided into 8 blocks, and generally the TGs for any given service (e.g., police, fire, highway) -- and often the TGs for the entire system -- will be confined to those within a single block.

Also note that in a SmartNet (or SmartZone) system, only the hex "even" TG IDs may be used (i.e., those ending in 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, B, D, or F).

Finally note that there can be more than one ATG for a given system. Just to pick an example (and I'm doing this from memory, as I'm not in my office): On the Massachusetts SP system, all SP TGs are in Block 4 (starts logically at 800f but the first usable ID would be 801h); the first assignment is 819h ("A PTL 1"), and the A Troop ATG is 831h. There are different ATGs for the other troops.

For statewide coverage, we have defined a TG as "Statewide." This is programmed as a simulcast TG in all zones in the system, so anyone in any zone will hear all traffic over the Statewide TG (in practice, this is usually used by the Air Wing and ground units talking to the Air Wing). The "Statewide" TG ID is 8A9h.

Hope this helps to clarify a complicated subject. The bottom line is that you need someone who is familiar with the controller programming of the particular system that you are interested in.

(For the record, everything in this post is information that is available publicly from enthusiast databases.)

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:43 am

Yeahh, this is a tricky subject...., Thanks for the info though, I will try out what you said RKG.

I guess I will try latter on tomorrow, better save my codeplug and clear out the current so I can keep reprograming and try.. or eles I will be there forever for it to Validate lol and program....

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 12:52 am

[quote="RKG"]

Also note that in a SmartNet (or SmartZone) system, only the hex "even" TG IDs may be used (i.e., those ending in 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, B, D, or F).
quote]

So Only Even numbers can be put in? or did you mean Odd numbers?

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Fri Jun 04, 2004 11:57 pm

Ahhhhh ok, I understand now.... never did understood Hex to well

Makes much better sense now, thank Shawn.....

Post by **wavetar** » Sat Jun 05, 2004 4:04 am

r0f wrote:
RKG wrote:Also note that in a SmartNet (or SmartZone) system, only the hex "even" TG IDs may be used (i.e., those ending in 1, 3, 5, 7, 9, B, D, or F).

Dale Earnhardt wrote:So Only Even numbers can be put in? or did you mean Odd numbers?
No, he said even numbers. You must understand hex numbering first.

0 = 1
1 = 2
2 = 3
3 = 4
(blah blah)
D = 14
E = 15
F = 16

So the numbers he's listed above are HEX, and they are all EVEN numbers. Make sense now?

S

That is incorrect. Check your Windows calculator...Hex is identical to decimal from 0 up to 9, then it goes;

10 = A
11 = B
12 = C
13 = D
14 = E
15 = F
16 = 10

Todd

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Sun Jun 06, 2004 2:58 pm

Regardless, the only valid TG IDs on a SmartNet system are those ending in 1h, 3h, 5h, 7h, 9h, Bh, Dh, and Fh. These are considered to be "even" in hexadecimal notation. Don't ask me to justify the terminology.

(Humhead: remember this at dinner?)

motorola_otaku · Post by **motorola_otaku** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:25 am

RKG wrote:Regardless, the only valid TG IDs on a SmartNet system are those ending in 1h, 3h, 5h, 7h, 9h, Bh, Dh, and Fh.

The STAR-NET system in Houston is now running a handful of odd-numbered talkgroups (one example would be b72). How does that work?

Post by **HumHead** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:32 am

RKG wrote: (Humhead: remember this at dinner?)

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Thu Jun 10, 2004 8:53 am

StarNet (about which I know very little) does not employ the full set of SmartNet features.

Twisted_Pear · Post by **Twisted_Pear** » Wed Jul 14, 2004 4:51 pm

ATG is more a function of the radio. The system really doesn't do anything extra outside of knowing a specific talkgroup is permitted for ATG use.

When you program in an ATG and park your radio on the mode it will listen for traffic on all TGs (15 or less) in the personality that ATG is associated with. AFAIK you cannot scan multiple ATGS from other personalities in hopes to increase the number of TGs to be scanned.

When you transmit you send in the normal call request plus the t-bit for ATG. The system then checks to make sure ATG is permitted and sends out the call over the CC. The radios see this ATG ID and check to see what ID is currently in the ATG for personlity assocuated with the mode the radio is currently on.

No fancy stuff over the air for ATG.

Even numbered talkgroups (even meaning what it traditionally means when zero holds no weight and is != 1) can be used on SmartNet systems permitted radios aren't programmed for Priority Monitor scanning. This has to do with the subaudible data transmitted over the voice channel for priority monitor scanning. The address field for the TG in the stream has the LSB left out which is assumed by the radio as always being 1. This in turn would create a conflict if talkgroups 0x3FE and 0x3FF were used as they would both be seen as the same TG on the voice channel's sub causing the radio to attempt to switch back to the CC for the wrong TG.

In this situation, as Motorola defines it, even does NOT equal odd as some of you have mentioned. It's all about context and I'm afraid in this context you are incorrect RKG. Motorola from my POV has always referred to them as they are traditionally.

-Wayne

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Regarding ATG