California Dash/Deck Lights

MotoVio · Post by **MotoVio** » Sat May 29, 2004 6:06 pm

Sup BatLabbers.

Does anyone know what brand that most of the agencies in california use for interioior lighting?

I'm talkin about the one halogen amber/blue deck light
and the one solid red halogen steady burn dash light.

Are those code 3?

I see em in a lot of cars in the entire state of cali, mostly around LA
(in slicktop units).

FFParamedic571 · Post by **FFParamedic571** » Sat May 29, 2004 6:40 pm

http://www.coplite.com

they make most everything I had seen out there

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Sat May 29, 2004 8:53 pm

well some do use whelen

i dont knwo why u would use any halogen for this application with all he good led stuff out

007 · Post by **007** » Sat May 29, 2004 9:14 pm

FFParamedic571 wrote:http://www.coplite.com

they make most everything I had seen out there

We use the hard mount dual mirror lights on our cleantops. They are bright, but need to be aimed right to be effective. The biggest downfall is lack of off-angle light. Thay are as bad as Gen 1 LED's....no off-angle (intersection) light, which makes them horrible for urban use.

As for Cali, it's a mix of the CopLite, federal signal, Code 3 and whelen. For the cleantop/unmarked cars, I'd be will to bet over 90% are the red steady burn Coplite or a Federal Signal SML1.

A lot of agencies have used either Federal Signal SML1 and SML2 lights or Code 3 AS1 and AS2 lights for the front red steady burn & rear amber/blue flasher.

LED's are coming into style, and it's anyones guess who has the most widely used lights. CHP still is using FS for almost everything, including the new LED's in cleantops.

Everyone has these lights because CVC mandates a front red steady burn and an amber flasher to the rear.

MotoVio · Post by **MotoVio** » Sat May 29, 2004 10:37 pm

Cool, thanks. I had never heard of coplite, but yeah ur 100% right, that's the same light i see above most of the mirrors on slicktops in cali!
Wonder why cvc mandates the amber/blue for rear and solid red for the front?, why not go red/blue strobes or even LED on both ends?
Maybe they'll convert some time soon, like CHP.

Cuz here, It's all red/blue... only the flashers are amber/amber (in lightbars) sometimes.

Cam · Post by **Cam** » Sun May 30, 2004 10:23 pm

VioLenT wrote:Cool, thanks. I had never heard of coplite, but yeah ur 100% right, that's the same light i see above most of the mirrors on slicktops in cali!
Wonder why cvc mandates the amber/blue for rear and solid red for the front?, why not go red/blue strobes or even LED on both ends?
Maybe they'll convert some time soon, like CHP.

Cuz here, It's all red/blue... only the flashers are amber/amber (in lightbars) sometimes.

You don't have to have any blue. You have to have one steady red to the front and one flashing amber to the rear. CHP has not converted and will not be able to without a change in the law. You can have other lights, but you have to have the red and amber no matter what.

I think it works great and I don't see them changing anytime soon.

Cam

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Mon May 31, 2004 6:25 am

This topic has been covered long before this.

Its basically tradition and left-over law from when rotators, strobes, LED and flashing did not exist and all you had was a steady burn red light to pull people down.

Goes along with the old mechanical siren.

MotoVio · Post by **MotoVio** » Mon May 31, 2004 11:47 am

Sweet, It does work great.

rolncode3 · Post by **rolncode3** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 1:41 am

a dead thread, but CVC 21055 makes no mention of anything to the rear of the vehicle. Only states that for exemption from the vehicle code you have to have the solid red burning light (I believe is supposed to be visible for 1000 feet under normal atmospheric conditions) and sounding a siren as necessary.

007 · Post by **007** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 3:23 pm

CVC 165 covers what exactly can be an authorized emergency vehicle (AEV).

CVC 21806 covers what to do when near a code 3 AEV

CVC 25252 covers the steady burn red to the front

CVC 25259 covers the amber to the rear

Adam · Post by **Adam** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 8:02 pm

FedSig SMLs have nice viewing angles. I have two halogen SML1s on the back deck and you can see them off to the sides of the car nicely.

I know someone selling a dual halogen Whelen Dashmiser if you are interested. lightly used

rolncode3 · Post by **rolncode3** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 10:19 pm

007 wrote: CVC 25259 covers the amber to the rear

says "may", not "shall". per this section there's no requirement to have anything flashing to the rear, this just allows it.

My mistake. The previous posters said there was required to be a flashing blue or amber to the rear. I didn't mean that the VC didn't talk about them at all, just that it didn't REQUIRE there to be flashers to rear. My fault.

007 · Post by **007** » Tue Sep 07, 2004 11:26 pm

I was looking for quite awhile in the VC for an amber mandate. I'd swear up and down that there is a mandate for at least 1 flashing amber to the rear....

I was pretty sure that it was stipulated that there needed to be an amber flasher to the rear, to match the red steady burn. Problem, I can't find it. It is possible that the VC has been re-worded to say "may".

CHP has always had 1 flashing amber to the rear, since at least the late '50's/early 60's. They added a matching flashing red in the 60's sometime...for sure by the '70's.

As far as I'm aware, the blue flashing to the rear showed up sometime in the late 70's/early 80's.

*Edit*

VC 25259, which allows for amber lights on AEV's, was amended in 1991 and 1998...I wonder if the change occured then.

There had to have been an amber mandate, otherwise I highly doubt that -every- agency has put at least 1 amber flashing light on the rear deck...?

rolncode3 · Post by **rolncode3** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 12:27 am

it's no big deal...I had just never heard of the requirement. Every once in a while you'll see a car with ONLY the forward light. Usually a DA or probation vehicle (or similar agency). I think safety and warning are the main reasons you see them on almost all vehicles. It is most definitely a good idea to have rear warning, and that is why you see everything from flashers to arrow sticks.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Wed Sep 08, 2004 4:52 pm

but i do belive there is an OSHA reg that requires 1 amber to the rear of all emergency type vehicle

kens · Post by **kens** » Thu Sep 09, 2004 9:54 am

The amber requirement is probably in the Calif. Admin. Code (CAC Title 13). While most other states accept SAE lighting requirements, Calif. has their own very complex engineering standards. I have talked with several smaller companies about why their products did not meet this standard and they replied that since they had limited potential markets in Ca. they did not go the the expense of having them tested for compliance.

Deanna · Post by **Deanna** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 6:33 pm

Actually, the 2004 CHP P71 Vics (slick) and a lot of the newer motors
are all now LED... On the slicks, they're using steady burn RED
next to flashing blue behind mirror... The bikes are using the
same red/blue combo on each side of the fairing.... Back window
in the slicks are all LED--traffic director with large blue/red LEDs
that actually take more room on the package deck than the old
Halogen counterparts that have been there up until the intro of the
LEDs in the slicks.. Probably adds no more info than already in
the discussion, but maybe clarifies a bit..

Cheers,

Deanna

007 · Post by **007** » Fri Sep 10, 2004 11:03 pm

Deanna wrote:Actually, the 2004 CHP P71 Vics (slick) and a lot of the newer motors
are all now LED... On the slicks, they're using steady burn RED
next to flashing blue behind mirror...

Oww! Red and blue to the front??

Are the driver's side spot's still red?

rolncode3 · Post by **rolncode3** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 12:39 am

007 wrote:Oww! Red and blue to the front??

That is an extremely common setup with many agencies now.

007 wrote:Are the driver's side spot's still red?

Last time I hooked up with a slicktop on a deuce stop, I'm pretty sure his spot was red. That was an extra solid red to go with the interior LED. (just like previously)

Deanna · Post by **Deanna** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:58 am

Yup....Red and Blue to front.... On the non-slicks CHP is often using
double white spots....On the slicks, using multi (mirror & driver's pillar
spot) are still red. That started back in the days of the Mustangs, and
has come forward even with the use of LEDs... Roln---S.O.???
Great info... Keep up the good work...

Cheers,

Deanna

Mike in CT · Post by **Mike in CT** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 9:17 pm

at the risk of sounding like I just fell off the turnip truck...

whats a "slick top"? never heard that term out here in the East...

an undercover car? marked car but with no light bar?

thanks!!

and of course, 73...

Mike in CT KM1R

retired PO and lovin every minute of it!

Deanna · Post by **Deanna** » Sat Sep 11, 2004 10:27 pm

Sorry, Mike... "slick" or "slick-top" are terms we have used for
police cruisers for many yrs. here in CA...Basically, before the late
1960s ('68, if memory serves) Highway Patrol vehicles ran almost
exclusively without any kind of roof-top emergency lights. There
were a few experiments with rotators, etc., but the "A" lightbar
(probably designating the first model as such used by CHP) was
introduced on the top of the '68 Polara. There were some smaller
jurisdictions within the state that also would run "slick", or "slick-top",
but it was a characteristic peculiar to CHP until the "A" bar broke that
barrier, especially in urban areas where the higher visibility due to
traffic congestion would be helpful. By the mid-70s, the Highway
Patrol ran Federal Twin-Sonic bars on urban units, and kept the
rural units predominantly "slick", as they tended to make more
high speed runs and benefited from little traffic congestion and
a more "stealthy" profile on traffic duty.
Oh, just FYI, most CA slick units (esp. CHP) ran twin A-pillar spots,
driver's spot RED, pass. side white. Rear deck ran amber flashing,
to which red solid/flashing (single unit) was added in the late 50's/
early 60's--if my memory hasn't gone totally brain-dead. The front
facing red (spot on driver's pillar) has always been steady burn as
long as I can remember. In the late '40's/early '50s, the Highway
Patrol still had front mounted lights (two, one on each side) on top that
were stationary mount, which went to pillar mounted spots in the mid-
50s..
Oh, slick-tops could be marked (as with the Highway Patrol) or
just "plain-wrappers"--or unmarked vehicles... Don't ever recall
seeing a non-slick "unmarked".

Hope that helps..sorry to confuse... Best regards.

Cheers,

Deanna

And for someone who mentioned blue lights in CA, CHP actually only
got blue when the Twin-Sonics came into wide use. They tried a few
of them on the A-bars originally, but the blue light on the right rear
deck and the blue rotator in the lightbar only came in the mid-70s...
For those who really give a hoot..

Deanna

007 · Post by **007** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:11 am

Good post, Dee...that's some great info!

Our comm van had a TwinSonic on it until early this year, when it got replaced with a Vista. I bet that CHP made Federal Signal make a version with the front steady burn/rear flash on the left side, since I've never seen a version like that out here in the midwest.

It's funny how CHP can snap their finger and the companies come to attention

Case in point:

1.) Their current radio (42 MHz Rangr with S815 control head) was made just for CHP, with CHP firmware. That's right sports fans: The GE Rangr was made for CHP, by a 3rd party Japanese company. It then sold in the LMR market because it was a good radio.

2.) Their current lightbar (Federal Signal Vision) has special CHP firmware and is controlled by a made-for-CHP control box called the "BB100" that interfaces to the S815 control head and a PA500 siren. CHP is also the only place I've seen the funky split color pods like they have...neat idea.

3.) Their current rear deck setup for the clean tops (

) is an 8 light FS SignalMaster and dual SML-2 heads that are all hardwired together and use one power/control cable...bet you haven't seen that one outside of CHP. I haven't.

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:36 am

CHP Vision uses slightly different firmware as a normal or NYPD firmware Vision. You can accomplish the same things CHP firmware does by swapping the connectors from the outboard (1&7) pods with the first inboard (2&6) pods, hence placing the alley/rear osciallate to the far outboard pods.

Standard domes are clear except for center (#4) which is solid red. Inner front/side cutout filters are a factory option (I used to have the part number written down).

Essentially the color config gives the operator the option to run (with CHP firmware) alleys and take downs simultaneously and independantly. It also gives the operator the rear oscillate on the far outboard pods (1&7) rather than standard firmware using 2&6.

You can, however, program the unit using a standard Premium Vision SS control head. The patterns are basically the same if you compare to the configuration manual with the exception of the control numbers. I had to write down what patterns were already programmed by looking at the keypad flashs before changing the programming.

Deanna · Post by **Deanna** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 9:41 am

Not only is that true on radio systems (like after the '77 Yolo
Causeway shooting, when CHP came up with the extender/mobile
repeat setup), and integrated the GE/Ericsson MVP setup with
the old CHP Micors, the California Highway Patrol has done that
kind of thing for years. Not only with radio manufacturers and
emergency warning manufacturers, even the auto manufacturers
have cowtowed to CHP for years. In 1965, for example, the
413 CHP Polara was lengthen in the wheelbase by one inch
at the insistance of the Highway Patrol, which still demanded
their E-class vehicles be at least 122 inches in the wheelbase.
Of course, that went out the window in the mid-seventies, when
they downsized from the Polara/Monaco into the Coronet mid-
sized cruiser, and then after the field test in the late 70s that
ended up using the M-series Diplomats, etc, and then the smaller
LTD Crown Vics and Impalas.
Regarding the current radio/Federal Vision bars used by CHP,
there are two systems (radio-wise) used in the Patrol...a down-sized
(due to the different warning lights on the motors) head used on
two-wheeled vehicles. On the visor in my Vic sits the instruction
manual (CHP) for using the radio/visual warning systems. That's
how I managed to know that..

Good thread has developed here, with a tremendous amount of
background and experience reflected... Hats off to all!

Cheers,

Deanna

Cowboy · Post by **Cowboy** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 12:41 pm

Sounds like Deanna needs to send me a scanned copy of that manual to add to my collection

LOL

007 · Post by **007** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 1:39 pm

Cowboy wrote:Sounds like Deanna needs to send me a scanned copy of that manual to add to my collection LOL

Sounds like Deanna needs to send me a scanned copy of tha manual so I know what I'm doing when I get to the academy

Deanna · Post by **Deanna** » Sun Sep 12, 2004 2:21 pm

007 wrote:
Cowboy wrote:Sounds like Deanna needs to send me a scanned copy of that manual to add to my collection LOL
Sounds like Deanna needs to send me a scanned copy of tha manual so I know what I'm doing when I get to the academy

Hmmmmmmmmmm.... Well, it's a small, spiral bound job...not easily
attainable... I guess I could figure out how much it would cost to do..
I've not tried to scan it, so if any of you more savvy computer types
can assist with some guidance, I'm sure we might be able to figure
this out...I DO have a scanner

...

PM me, or better yet, drop me a note per e-mail...
DWSMITHA@yahoo.com

Cheers,

Deanna

RadioSouth · Post by **RadioSouth** » Wed Sep 15, 2004 11:39 am

It's funny how CHP can snap their finger and the companies come to attention

Case in point:

1.) Their current radio (42 MHz Rangr with S815 control head) was made just for CHP, with CHP firmware. That's right sports fans: The GE Rangr was made for CHP, by a 3rd party Japanese company. It then sold in the LMR market because it was a good radio.

2.) Their current lightbar (Federal Signal Vision) has special CHP firmware and is controlled by a made-for-CHP control box called the "BB100" that interfaces to the S815 control head and a PA500 siren. CHP is also the only place I've seen the funky split color pods like they have...neat idea.

3.) Their current rear deck setup for the clean tops (

) is an 8 light FS SignalMaster and dual SML-2 heads that are all hardwired together and use one power/control cable...bet you haven't seen that one outside of CHP. I haven't.[/quote]

Sure, if you're buying a large quantity many manufacturers will build to your specs. Believe Uniden initially came out with the MR8100 for the
CHP contract.

Post by **CAPTLPOL** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 2:49 pm

I notice that whilst watching Cops or the reruns of World's Scariest Police Chases with Sheriff John Bunnel that California officers always seem to turn their rotators or strobes, LED's etc off after they have stopped a vehicle or arrived on a scene. Is their a General Order or S.O.P. that is widely used around the state for such actions or is their a statute that manadates such action?

Deanna · Post by **Deanna** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 8:12 pm

Well, I do know that CHP and other agencies, as matter of SOP for
many yrs. have made it a practice to turn off as many lights as
possible when on traffic stops. The reason behind that is primary
due to the fact that persons who are intoxicated tend to be attracted
to the lights, and cannot differentiate which set of lights (usually
by double vision) is the real versus the double set, and have wiped
out too many cruisers and injured many officers as a result. I forget
off hand when that became common practice, but that was the
impetus for it here.
Hope that helps.
Cheers,

Deanna

rolncode3 · Post by **rolncode3** » Sat Sep 18, 2004 11:22 pm

Personally, I leave the forward facing (not rotating) stuff on during vehicle stops. Very simple reasons. 1) The more light, the better (even if it's red and blue light). 2) If the person drives away, aka flees, I want to be able to sit in front of a jury and tell them that my red and blue light were still on, so the person cannot say they thought they were free to go(I know, sounds stupid, but I've had people take off after they stopped).

I do turn off rotators because of the DUI issue. Also, you get all the rubber neckers that you don't want.

You will see, however, many officers leave all their lights on. I think it's mostly a personal preference, also affected by time of day. At night, all the rotators can be very distracting, but during the day they don't really affect you. And while you may get hit by a deuce because of the lights, I'd also really hate to get hit by someone who never saw my vehicle because there were no flashing lights. My department has no policy on lighting.

Last, but not least, if you don't have ANY overhead lights on, and you wind up needing Code3 cover, other officers may go mach8 right past you thinking you're another vehicle on the side of the road. It can be very hard to pick the right vehicle out, even worse if you're in a parking lot or not on the shoulder.

Short answer, though, is there is NO state law saying lights must be on or off.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 12:57 am

There are several tactical considerations on traffic stops.

While the above points are excellent and hold true with vehicle stops there is also another school of thought.

Many CA agencies use a dark stop where once the vehicle is pulled down everything is turned off except for the door spot light and take downs ON... ONLY.

The idea is to leave less ambient light around so you don't give away your presense in the rotator/strobe "wash" of light.

Post by **CAPTLPOL** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 8:12 am

Thanks for the replies to my questions, I have always known the mechanics and the thought behind the theory of both conventions, however, I personally feel that I should have some type of warning illuminated for reasons of emergency backup, legality issues, attorney/General Sessions or Criminal Court Judge " were your blue lights activated?", and to insure some idiot does not run up behind you. I have also heard that strobes may impair your sight by taking the focus off your target if you get into a situation wherein you must escalade to deadly force. I was just curious as to if it was California law, widely accepted S.O.P. or if it was taught at the academies over there.

007 · Post by **007** » Sun Sep 19, 2004 11:10 pm

CHP (and other's I'm sure) studied the effects of emergency lights on Impaired drivers and found the fewer red/blue lights flashing, the less risk there was of a rearend crash into the squad.

Drunks really are drawn to the lights like a moth to a fire.

As far as I've seen, CHP dumps everything to the rear except a little bit of blue and amber. I haven't paid attention to other agencies, but our associate from Rancho Cordova covered it well.

Here in WI, our powers that be deciced it was a fabulous idea to add reflective yellow/black barrier tape to the rear of our patrol cars...this way they stick out EVEN MORE than before to the rear. Why? To prevent drunks from hitting it. They quoted an Arizona DPS survey that the colors will prevent rear end crashes by making the squad more visible

(If an upstanding board member can host it, I'll send a few pics)

I can't wait to get to Cali.

rolncode3 · Post by **rolncode3** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:40 am

Here are the pics he's referring to:

007 · Post by **007** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 1:42 am

Thanks for hosting those.

Doesn't that barrier tape just look smashing? Ugh. Now picture the above at night including a Red/Blue 12 head JetStrobe, Code 3 ArrowStik and taillight strobes going...tell me that this isn't going to attract too much attention?

007 · Post by **007** » Mon Sep 20, 2004 2:00 am

I finally found some text about the Arizona DPS survey:

The Arizona DPS revised the markings on its fleet. Taking cues from the Manual on Uniform Traffic Control Devices, a reflectorized and angled blue and white stripe was added to its vehicles' rear bumpers. The size of the letters composing the words "highway patrol" was increased to command greater attention and to identify more clearly the vehicle. Reflective markings outline each vehicle's body, aiding both in recognition and in depth perception.

http://www.theiacp.org/div_sec_com/comm ... de0084.htm

uman18 · Post by **uman18** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 8:27 pm

this the CHP's new set up with CUDA LEDS

http://www.policecaronline.com/Photos/C ... pce3n.html

007 · Post by **007** » Thu Oct 14, 2004 10:04 pm

Oh, that's gonna rock...that's a LOT of light back there.

nmfire10 · Post by **nmfire10** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 4:57 am

Did anyone else see the episode of COPS on FX last night? Deputy has a vehicle pulled over and is standing up at it speaking to the driver. Camera crew is in the back seat of the cruiser taping the stop. All of a sudden you hear this smash and the camera goes whacko and cuts off. Next scene, you see this drunk that plowed into the back of the stopped cruiser and then into the back of the vehicle the deputy had stopped.

uman18 · Post by **uman18** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 7:41 pm

When the CHP first started using the CUDA led Signal Master they had the one where the leds are all horizontal (the slimer signal master cuda-link below) those didn;t look so bright during the day time at an off angle from what i seen. Does anyone know if the ones used now like in the pic above from this post was special order for CHP like there other stuff! I havent been able to find one on the net or on FedSig web. First time i saw a CHP during the night time with the top blue flashing at the same time with the 2 end alternating on the sig master (their common rear warn pattern) and boy ther were noticable, caught my eye right away, LEDs are slowly being introduced around here where i live with the local agencies.

http://www.fedsig.com/police/On-line_Ca ... optic.html

007 · Post by **007** » Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:54 pm

First off, CHP can get whatever it wants from FS.

Second, the big cudas can be wired with a conventional SignalMaster harness so that it acts just like the SML-8...this is more than likely what CHP had done.

What you see there is a CHP design, that may or may not find it's way into "street" production.

Deanna · Post by **Deanna** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 8:30 pm

Hi guys...

Jim---sorry about the delay on trying to get that old CHP
VisionBar/control head book printed for you... It's still on
my list..my list has gone nuts... I just completed my background
and took (and passed, per the medico) my physical. Waiting to
hear final hire-on date..

Uman---where in Vta.Co.? We might be neighbors..??? PM
me, please...

Cheers,

Deanna

007 · Post by **007** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 9:26 pm

D-

No prob, I've got till Feburary...Glad to hear the BI went thru.

rolncode3 · Post by **rolncode3** » Sat Oct 16, 2004 10:48 pm

Congrats...let us know when/if you'll be up in Sacramento area.

Deanna · Post by **Deanna** » Sun Oct 17, 2004 8:44 pm

As soon as I get the hire-in date firm, I will know when I'll be
on the way to the Academy. I'm looking forward to it, as it's
been a LONG time since I was there last..

Will keep you
informed, believe me!

Cheers,

Deanna

California Dash/Deck Lights

California Dash/Deck Lights

For clean-top cruisers...

re: CHP and LEDs

Re: re: CHP and LEDs

Re: re: CHP and LEDs

re: Red & Blue

slick tops?

re: slick (tops)

re: CHP and finger-snaps

re: GE Ranger/CHP Vision control head

re: Turn off emerg.stops on traffic stops

New CHP lights

CHP LED signal master

LEDs and CHP--for UMan & 007

re: trip to Sacto... :)