New MOTO Repeater?

[bjlf]

A local FD is loking for a new MOTO repeater,VHF, 100w, to be used for paging and dispatch.

What would make a good constant duty repeater?
Does MOTO have anything?

What wold be a ball park cost?

Thanks

[tvsjr]

Motorola stuff is going to be really pricey.

The mods might jump my case, but I'd strongly suggest looking into a Kenwood TKR-750. I've got two in service right now, and a friend/radio shop owner has over 2 dozen 750s and 850s. In the Version 2 configuration, they have DTMF control, built-in CWID, everything you need all in one 3 R.U. box.

You will need an external power amp, as they're only rated for 25 watts continuous (mine are running at 5 watts driving 150-watt bricks.)

[MSS-Dave]

Motorola...

Only choices you have for 100 watt CONTINUOUS duty are going to be the MTR 2000 or the Quantar.

Analog repeater config on the MTR 2K will probably run you 6-7K

Quantar will be probably be between 12-15K for analog operation

Options would run more (duplexer, cabinet, wireline control, ETC.)

There is a used VHF Quantar on http://www.talkfar.com for about 3K but I dont know the option level right off.


Kenwood stuff is good but to get it up to 100 watts continuous duty from them new will be over 10K also. Just got a quote on their 900 MHz 100 watt box from a rep....... $19,000


No thanks..

Dave

[Zero dbm]

Check the for sale forum. Batdude has a Quantar for $5500 .

[chipjumper]

Anyone know of some remotes that can be used with the MTR2000 that have a channel selector?

Can we have a remote by the repeater and one upstairs in the classroom with the same MTR2000? (i.e. multiple remotes with one MTR2000)???

[tvsjr]

Kenwood stuff is good but to get it up to 100 watts continuous duty from them new will be over 10K also. Just got a quote on their 900 MHz 100 watt box from a rep....... $19,000

Maybe if you buy the integrated solution from them. I spent under $1K (essentially cost) on the repeater and added an external PA. I could've purchased the entire system brand new for under $10K (I spent about $1250 total on the system with a bit of scrounging...)

[RKG]

1. Yes, you can parallel multiple tone remotes to the same base station. (Two should work under any conditions; the upper limit depends on more details.)

2. You can program either an MTR2000 or a Quantar for multliple channels, and within limits you can use a Tone Remote Control to select what channel is currently active via tone/command definitions. Both the hardware and software for the base station end are built into the Quantar; believe additional board is required for the MTR2000. However, multiple channels on a repeater is a problematic issue, both operationally and in terms of staying within the bandwidth of any associated resonant equipment (e.g., duplexer).

[wavetar]

Motorola stuff is going to be really pricey.

The mods might jump my case, but I'd strongly suggest looking into a Kenwood TKR-750. I've got two in service right now, and a friend/radio shop owner has over 2 dozen 750s and 850s. In the Version 2 configuration, they have DTMF control, built-in CWID, everything you need all in one 3 R.U. box.

You will need an external power amp, as they're only rated for 25 watts continuous (mine are running at 5 watts driving 150-watt bricks.)

tvsjr, funny you should mention the TK-750. I am currently working with three 'Version 2' TKR-850 repeaters to build an LTR site with.

They looked like a nice package at first glance. Imagine my surprise when I programed the units with 427.xxxx/422.xxxx freqs & found out they required major tuning to get the receiver to work....much like a 20-year old MSR2000....how quaint.

I followed the alignment procedure to the letter several times, and I'll admit they do meet their written rx spec of 12dB Sinad @ -116dBm...barely. The main issue is my nice 1.5KHz sine wave starts falling to pieces around -107dBm (noticed as an increasing background hiss to the ear)....becoming distorted enough that it measures 2.3KHz at -116dBm.

Am I just spoiled by working with MTRs & Quantars that often meet 12dB Sinad at less than -121dBm with virtually no waveform distortion? Or am I doing something wrong? As they work right now, they aren't even comparable to a GR1225 for RX sensitivity.

Todd

[Jason]

I doubt the TRK750's are rated for continuous duty. They are in the GR1225/GR300 price class, and certainly couldn't be recommended for a public safety application, that is a primary full time channel.

Get an MTR.

[wavetar]

I doubt the TRK750's are rated for continuous duty. They are in the GR1225/GR300 price class, and certainly couldn't be recommended for a public safety application, that is a primary full time channel.

Get an MTR.

They are rated for continuous duty at 25 watts, and their physical build quality appears to be at least as good as a GR1225...unfortunately their RX specs aren't nearly as good.

Todd

[tvsjr]

I doubt the TRK750's are rated for continuous duty. They are in the GR1225/GR300 price class, and certainly couldn't be recommended for a public safety application, that is a primary full time channel.

Get an MTR.

Know before you start running your mouth. They're rated for 50-watts intermittent (ICS), and 25 watts continuous. They're in the GR1225 price class because they don't have a Motorola label on the front... these are real repeaters (not two radios banded together a la GR300), complete with a real front end in the RX, etc.

Why couldn't they be recommended for a public safety application? I've got one in fire service without a single problem. We're about to add 3 more (police, public works, and a backup).

I've got one that's a primary RACES repeater. There have been times where the repeater has been keyed down for essentially 4 hours straight. No problems.

[tvsjr]

They are rated for continuous duty at 25 watts, and their physical build quality appears to be at least as good as a GR1225...unfortunately their RX specs aren't nearly as good.

MTR2000 station/repeater: 0.35uV @ 12dB SINAD, 80dB selectivity wideband, 75dB selectivity narrowband

GR1225 repeater: 0.35uV @ 12dB SINAD, 85dB selectivity wideband, 65dB selectivity narrowband

TKR750 repeater: 0.35uV @ 12dB SINAD (0.45uV for 20db quieting), 85dB selectivity wideband, 77dB selectivity narrowband.

Tell me, what's so bad about the TKR-750's receive specs? The units I have in service outperform the specs quite handily (my RACES repeater is 0.24uV @ 12dB SINAD). Not a troll - I'd really like to know why they're supposedly so bad.

[wavetar]

Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, the written specs are the same. I was referring to my original post above where I found though they meet spec, I found noise to be introduced at a much higher level, along with a higher level of waveform distortion than the Motorola products. Although I've followed the alignment procedure & checked it several times, I was wondering if there was anything off the top of your head you could think of I might be overlooking which would cause these problems. I never said they were 'that bad'. I quite like them for the price.

[tvsjr]

Perhaps a poor choice of words on my part, the written specs are the same. I was referring to my original post above where I found though they meet spec, I found noise to be introduced at a much higher level, along with a higher level of waveform distortion than the Motorola products. Although I've followed the alignment procedure & checked it several times, I was wondering if there was anything off the top of your head you could think of I might be overlooking which would cause these problems. I never said they were 'that bad'. I quite like them for the price.

No clue... I haven't really seen this problem. Most of the boxes I've played with are the newer version 2 units... are yours v1 or v2? I know the firmware update is more than a chip change... I wonder if their hardware mods from v1 to v2 had some effect on this.

One of the 750s was a replacement for a blown-up (lightning... wasn't pretty) MTR, and neither I nor the end users could tell any difference between the two units.

[wavetar]

They are new Version 2 low-split UHF units. We ordered them in for a Trident Raider Extreme Passport system, since you can't get the GR1225 in low-split UHF. I had to call Trident for some pointers, since the hook-up wasn't in their manual. Although they faxed me a written procedure, I'm on my own with it past that, since they said the TKR-850 'wasn't recommended for Passport operation'. They didn't elaborate on why.

Todd

[nmfire10]

I've got a TKR-850 in service for our FD and it is cross-linked to a low band channel. It sits quiet a lot, but when it starts hopping, it is hopping. I had a problem the PA once when we first installed it. A new board was overnighted at no cost that day. It's hasn't hicupped once since then.

Sensitivity for 12db SINAD is about .22uV on 465mhz and that is with the duplexer and cross-band coupler.

[JD]

Have you considered the M/A COM (GE) Mater III ?These are still produced.I have 2 in VHF, thye work as well as my MRT2000's and are 2 to 3 K less than the MRT. Not sure how quickly I can get repalcement parts., have not needed any yet.Motorola does have an extremely good inventory stock and parts are delivered over night. I have heard that Kenwood has a poor record for parts and service.

[tvsjr]

Have you considered the M/A COM (GE) Mater III ?These are still produced.I have 2 in VHF, thye work as well as my MRT2000's and are 2 to 3 K less than the MRT. Not sure how quickly I can get repalcement parts., have not needed any yet.Motorola does have an extremely good inventory stock and parts are delivered over night. I have heard that Kenwood has a poor record for parts and service.

They're getting much better, and for about $1K/ea., I just buy a spare repeater or two. We can worry about fixing it while it's sitting on the bench, not while it's preventing firefighters from getting toned out (because you know it's going to break when you're buried with calls).

[Jason]

I was not suggesting that the Kenwood repeater would not be a good alternative, only that it appeared the FD was spec'ing a 100Watt continuous duty station, which the TKR did not fit the bill, without an add on PA.

By no means am I a kenwood expert, you obviously work with them more, and know a a great deal more about them than I.