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Postby 007 » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:33 pm

SoonFormerMotorolaEmploye wrote:Well as an Employee of the Elgin, IL repair depot. I would like to thank you all for the comments that I have read on here.

I was directed to this site by a letter that was submitted with a case support ticket submitted by Bruce Lane, KC7GR. This rant of his has been circulating the facility and we love it. Thanks Bruce

Please all of you, let your voice be heard. There is nothing we can do here that will prevent this sale from happening. The only thing that can stop it is you the customer.

Thanks again,
Elgin Motorola Support Team

P.S. We also don't like the fact that our products are built in Mexico and we recognize the quality isn't what it used to be, and we are sorry about that but it was out of our hands.


What is this support ticket that Bruce submitted? I'd like to read it, as I'm sure others would as well.
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Postby SoonFormerMotorolaEmploye » Thu Oct 06, 2005 8:49 pm

I wish I could post it. But I have several thousands of dollars in severance pay that I would be losing if I got fired for posting that info.

Now if Bruce wants to post it, I guess there would be nothing wrong with that.

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Postby USPSS » Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:19 pm

Just a bit of informaion, Kenwood TK-5210 & TK-5710 radios are now the standard with the US Dept. of State worldwide as well as the TK-x180 series.

Other US Federal agencies are coming on board as you read this, Customer service, Quality, and price count. The FEDS have tested the Kenwood and found them to be equal to or better than the other guys.
Stan Glass


Government & Entertainment Division Manager (Kenwood)

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Postby MTS2000des » Thu Oct 06, 2005 11:42 pm

the days of Motorola being the innovator and king of quality, service and performance are fading fast. Once they do away with their edge, which used to justify their exhorbitant cost of ownership..SERVICE and QUALITY they will be no more. Outsourcing the AAD and RPG DEPOT is a *BAD MOVE* and will cost them much more than they can fathom in the long run.

but then again, corporate criminal scumbags like Zander could care less, they are only interested in making a quick buck, even if it costs thousands of hardworking Americans their jobs and sends a once great company into the crapper. They get out and sell out before it happens and then move on to phuck up some other company and profit off it the same way. No different than serial rapists, thugs and other forms of human garbage. At least the dirtbag who puts a gun to your head leaves you with no doubt you're gonna be a victim whereas the turdface corporate criminal does it on the sly. they are both scum and worthless in my book and are what are FedExing this nation to the third world.

Mr. Elgin Employee I wish to thank you, you may have even worked on some of my radios in the past, maybe not. But it is the dedication and service of real American citizens like you that keep the customer coming back paying the RIPOFF prices that Ma M charges. Now that you are gone there is no reason for us to stay. We'll gladly go buy our Kenwoods and Icoms even though we'd rather buy domestic but then, any company that SELLS US OUT like this deserves to get the finger from it's customers.
Pretty sad how foreign owned corporations invest in our country more than the so-called worthless dirtbag sellout US firms that export our jobs over the border. And don't tell me it's to stay profitable that's bull$hit and everyone knows it. Giving yourself 3 million dollar bonuses when you are in debt is a sign where the priorities are.

anyway, good luck. Screw Motorola I am done with them. I will NOT support a company that shafts it's workers, my fellow American citizen, this way and I encourage any of you who still believe in this country and it's workforce to do the same.
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Postby nmfire10 » Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:41 am

Do the corperate morons think that nobody would find out about this? I mean, seriously? Do they think nobody can see through their ******** press releases about how this is a mjor improvement and they love their employees. Assholes.
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Postby stay-con » Fri Oct 07, 2005 10:43 am

007 wrote:I can't believe /\/\ has gotten to the point of selling it's own service depot.


Perhaps they realized that Elgin was just part of a vast conspiracy to sell parts built radios?

In the words of Foghorn Leghorn, "That's a joke son."

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Postby xmo » Fri Oct 07, 2005 11:37 am

"That's a joke son."

'Taint funny McGee

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Postby SoonFormerMotorolaEmploye » Fri Oct 07, 2005 12:07 pm

Well I don't know how many of you know this. But the mobil part of homeland security and public saftey will be moving to Juarez Mexico to be repaired. Now when you call Motorola to get an RMA they will tell you to ship to an address in El Paso,TX which is the logistics center it will then be shipped across the border and repaired and then returned to El Paso to be returned to you.
Now I don't know how many police departments and security departments want their equipment to leave the country to be repaired, but I will tell you don't believe them if they say "But you are shipping to El Paso for your repair so it's staying in America"

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Postby nmfire10 » Fri Oct 07, 2005 3:38 pm

I'm seriously tempted to give the state back the MT2000 ITAC radio they bought every department and buy our own Kenwood when they come out with an 800 model.
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What happened to "Buy American"?

Postby Nand » Fri Oct 07, 2005 6:32 pm

So, a lot of you are jumping ship, dropping Motorola and getting foreign stuff at lower cost. Wasn’t that the start of the problem all along? When you buy American, you are paying for America wages. When you buy foreign, you loose in the long run because eventually there are no jobs left and no taxes to collect.

From some of your posts it looks like the American government and many state and local governments use taxes collected from American citizens to support foreign labor because they produce and equal quality product for less money. Isn’t this one of the reasons why Motorola and others now produce most of their product where the labor cost is lowest? The skill level doesn’t need to be high since a machine builds most of the product. Testing and alignment is done with the guidance of computer-controlled equipment. The machine doesn’t care where it is located as long as it is in an atmospherically controlled room. The same is true for all the components that make up the assembly.

Since repair in a lot of cases these days’ amounts to module or board replacement, board level troubleshooting can almost be eliminated as well. Often it is cheaper to replace a board than trouble shooting and repairing it. This reduces the turnaround time, required skill level for the tech and therefore cost.
Money is what it is al about for most corporations and apparently for many customers as well.

What does the sticker on your clothes say? What does the sticker on the back of your TV tell you or any of your other toys? I guess it doesn’t look like the sticker below.

Image

It won’t be long before nobody knows what “Buy American” really means since few items will be made in America.

Nand.

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Re: What happened to "Buy American"?

Postby SoonFormerMotorolaEmploye » Mon Oct 10, 2005 7:19 pm

Nand wrote:Since repair in a lot of cases these days’ amounts to module or board replacement, board level troubleshooting can almost be eliminated as well. Often it is cheaper to replace a board than trouble shooting and repairing it. This reduces the turnaround time, required skill level for the tech and therefore cost.

Nand.


Not much board replacement here in Elgin, I will admit you can't fix everything but we do troubleshoot to component level. Some of these boards are obsolete and some are just very expensive to replace.
We have some units that the cost to replace the board is over $5000.

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Postby mr.syntrx » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:51 am

Most of the radios we've sent back to Silverwater have had board level repairs - one MCS2000 had even had just a microprocessor replaced.

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Postby kc7gr » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:01 am

SoonFormerMotorolaEmploye wrote:Well as an Employee of the Elgin, IL repair depot. I would like to thank you all for the comments that I have read on here.

I was directed to this site by a letter that was submitted with a case support ticket submitted by Bruce Lane, KC7GR. This rant of his has been circulating the facility and we love it. Thanks Bruce


<snippety>

<blinks in surprise>

You are entirely welcome! I will freely admit that it was indeed a true rant. I felt the need to vent after hearing the news, and I simply found myself typing said vent into a web case ticket. I figured that would be the best way, in my case, to let my opinion be known. I had no idea that it would spread so far and so wide.

At least one other person has asked for a copy of the thing. I will post it in a separate entry (I wrote it, I own it... Motorola can't do anything to me for posting it).

God bless you, and your fellow employees, and thank YOU for your technical assistance in times past. May there be plenty of other job avenues open to you.
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The Web Rant...

Postby kc7gr » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:03 am

For the benefit of the curious, the attached missive is what I posted to Motorola in the form of an MOL web case. In retrospect, I think I could have made it a bit more diplomatic, but I will freely admit to being hopping mad at the time.

Enjoy!

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

*** Notes 10/1/2005 12:22:53 PM MOLCase Action Type: General
*** Performed by contact: Bruce Lane WebID, (253) 639-2996
It was with a profound sense of shock, and equally deep anger, that I found out about your outsourcing of the subscriber repair depot from this posting (quoted in its entirety) on batboard.batlabs.com.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

Hello Everyone,

On Thursday September 29, 2005, MOTOROLA, Inc. announced that their Infrastructure and Subscriber Depot Operations and AAD located in Elgin, IL has been SOLD to CTDI out of Pennsylvainia and only a select few management personnel will be transferred back to the Schaumburg's facility. The remaining employees will lose their job positions with MOTOROLA, Inc at the end of December 31, 2005.

The Subscriber Depot for Mobiles & Portables is being moved to Guadalajara. Mexico with CTDI administration offices in El Paso, Texas. The Infrastructure Depot Operations will remain in Elgin, IL but anyone wanting to continue their employment with the new company CTDI must apply as a new employee at greatly reduced hourly pay scale and/or salary and greatly reduced benefits.

-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-

I would like to go on record as protesting this insane move in the strongest possible manner. I can no longer, as a direct result of it, recommend Motorola products to ANYone I come in contact with.

More specifically: Any future radio equipment purchases I may make myself, or recommend to others, will point towards Kenwood, M/A-COM, Icom, or Yaesu (for radios), and Ericsson, LG, or Panasonic for cellular phones, with no mention whatsoever of Motorola. Period.

Should any of my current Motorola equipment cease functioning, to the point where it cannot be economically repaired, it will be replaced with a different brand. Period.

How could you, as a company, possibly do this to the very engineers, techs, and support staff who helped build Motorola from the ground up? Bob Galvin must be reaching about 18,000 RPM in his grave about now.

The timing is pretty amazing too -- Everybody gets the boot right after Christmas. Your CEO definitely deserves to get about thirty metric tons of coal in his stocking for this one.

I would wager that this insanity is going to continue until Motorola is merely a shell company, with all its products built, and its repairs performed, by slave labor in developing nations. Anything to make those few extra dollars, hmm?

Motorola used to be a company that people could look up to, and count on as an employer. I see that's no longer true (probably hasn't been for at least a decade, come to think of it). Speaking as a (thankfully, FORMER) Motorola employee, I'm glad I got out when I did!

It is my belief that this action will be the beginning of the end of Motorola as a company. Your reputation is more than a bit battered now, and I can hardly see this as an improvement.

Good luck. You're going to need it. Badly.
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Re: What happened to "Buy American"?

Postby kc7gr » Tue Oct 11, 2005 8:45 am

Nand wrote:So, a lot of you are jumping ship, dropping Motorola and getting foreign stuff at lower cost. Wasn’t that the start of the problem all along? When you buy American, you are paying for America wages. When you buy foreign, you loose in the long run because eventually there are no jobs left and no taxes to collect.

From some of your posts it looks like the American government and many state and local governments use taxes collected from American citizens to support foreign labor because they produce and equal quality product for less money. Isn’t this one of the reasons why Motorola and others now produce most of their product where the labor cost is lowest? The skill level doesn’t need to be high since a machine builds most of the product. Testing and alignment is done with the guidance of computer-controlled equipment. The machine doesn’t care where it is located as long as it is in an atmospherically controlled room. The same is true for all the components that make up the assembly.


<snippety>

There are no simple answers to issues like these, but I would like to offer my perspective.

Yes, it is indeed true that much of the electronic and computer equipment we all blithely purchase is made overseas, and it's also true that much of it is pretty good quality stuff.

However, it's also true that a lot of it is crap, built as cheaply as possible out of inferior materials and components and (apparently) designed to almost literally fall apart after a couple of years usage.

Believe it or not, I think a lot of the problems can be traced back to attitudes created in consumers by the personal computer industry. Over time, computer buyers grew accustomed to buggy software and frequent system crashes. Real high-quality programming techniques (the ones that cost a fair amount to implement) have gone out the window in favor of "just good enough to sell."

This attitude, unfortunately, has carried over into buying electronics.

Put more simply, most folks now EXPECT electronics to cost a tiny amount, and break down regularly. We've been driven away from making an INVESTMENT in our technology, and into making a commodity purchase, all because the manufacturers have gotten so greedy that they've come to see money as their end product as opposed to what's supposed to roll off their assembly lines. "Oh, It broke? It'll cost more to repair than it will to buy a new one. Throw it out."

Do I need to draw a picture of how incredibly wasteful this mindset is, to say nothing of what it'll do to the environment in the long term?

Motorola is an American company that used to design and manufacture EVERY SINGLE product they once made right here in this country. They were, like so many other technology companies, PRODUCT-DRIVEN as opposed to money-driven. They understood, at one time, that good-quality products and good customer service, offered at fair prices, will sell themselves and GUARANTEE ongoing profits and customer loyalty.

Unfortunately, like so many other once-great companies, they got greedy. They started being more concerned about manufacturing money as opposed to product, and I think we all know what happened after that.

I have nothing against any business making a fair profit. What I have a BIG problem with is the pursuit of ever-increasing profits at the expense of all other considerations. Motorola, like Tektronix, has lapsed into this mindset, and I don't see it stopping until there's nothing left.

Another poster drew a parallel between greedy CEOs who join a company, generate tremendous shareholder results by running said company into the ground, and then move on to their next victim, and serial rapists. While a bit lurid, the analogy is more accurate than I think many would like to believe.

What worries me is the question of who's going to be next? M-A/Com? Or Harris? Or Cubic? They all make radio gear, and they all have at least some manufacturing capacity right here in the States. However, they are also all publicly-traded businesses, and this makes me wonder if the same sickness will eventually strike one or more of them.

Keep the peace(es).
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Re: What happened to "Buy American"?

Postby kmoose » Tue Oct 11, 2005 9:29 am

kc7gr wrote: "Oh, It broke? It'll cost more to repair than it will to buy a new one. Throw it out."


I think this is nothing more than a function of the pace of technological advancement. As ICs become smaller and more powerful, the tools and techniques needed to troubelshoot and repair the equipment takes a while to catch up. The problem, lately, is that the technology is evolving faster than the maintenance side can keep pace with. Expensive soldering/desoldering equipment, designed for SMD devices, takes a while to become affordable for the average maintenance shop. By the time it does, the manufacturers have moved on to other technologies. Ball Grid Arrays, OMPACS, etc., are evolving faster than the maintenance organizations can keep up with. It was just ten years ago, that I was repairing analog radios in the Navy, that were built with very few ICs. Most of the circuits were constructed entirely of discrete components. Nowadays, one IC handles everything that an entire card used to. The IC is more effiecient, but you can't touch the thing with a soldering iron. So you need special tooling to replace it. This tooling is expensive enough that the average shop cannot afford it. Another trend that I see happening, today, is the push for more and more avionics that are firmware controlled. If I stay in avionics for another 20-30 years, I will have to be a software engineer, by the time I retire, to troubleshoot a radio.

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Re: What happened to "Buy American"?

Postby kc7gr » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:07 am

kmoose wrote:
kc7gr wrote: "Oh, It broke? It'll cost more to repair than it will to buy a new one. Throw it out."


I think this is nothing more than a function of the pace of technological advancement. As ICs become smaller and more powerful, the tools and techniques needed to troubelshoot and repair the equipment takes a while to catch up. The problem, lately, is that the technology is evolving faster than the maintenance side can keep pace with. Expensive soldering/desoldering equipment, designed for SMD devices, takes a while to become affordable for the average maintenance shop. By the time it does, the manufacturers have moved on to other technologies. Ball Grid Arrays, OMPACS, etc., are evolving faster than the maintenance organizations can keep up with. It was just ten years ago, that I was repairing analog radios in the Navy, that were built with very few ICs. Most of the circuits were constructed entirely of discrete components. Nowadays, one IC handles everything that an entire card used to. The IC is more effiecient, but you can't touch the thing with a soldering iron. So you need special tooling to replace it. This tooling is expensive enough that the average shop cannot afford it. Another trend that I see happening, today, is the push for more and more avionics that are firmware controlled. If I stay in avionics for another 20-30 years, I will have to be a software engineer, by the time I retire, to troubleshoot a radio.


All true, all true. HOWEVER -- I've long been a fan of the idea that just because we CAN do something with technology does NOT always mean that we SHOULD do it.

I don't pretend to have all the answers (or even most of them). I do know that there has to be a better way than what we've got at the moment. The USA is losing the very edges (engineering, design, and manufacturing) that once put us at the forefront as an industrialized nation.

How much more outsourcing can we stand before we lose that edge completely, and end up with much of our infrastructure owned by the very countries we keep selling out to?
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Postby nmfire10 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 10:35 am

How does Kenwood stand with where things are made & assembled? I gather their repairs are in the USA but I'm curious about the parts and assembly.
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:-?

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Postby GlennD » Tue Oct 11, 2005 11:24 am

Kenwood sold off thier service around ten years ago. The two Kenwood service locations are private seperate businesses. One of the techs at my city shop worked in the California service shop. They did the same thing Motorola did. He had to reapply for his job and took a pay and benifitt cut.

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Postby nmfire10 » Tue Oct 11, 2005 12:47 pm

I'm talking about country, not who does it.
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eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"

:-?

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Did they have achoice?

Postby Nand » Tue Oct 11, 2005 6:29 pm

It doesn’t make sense to just replace a $5000.00 board, but it sure starts to look like replacing a troublesome high volume $350.00 board is cheaper than repairing it if the problem cannot be quickly identified. No doubt there is a learning curve for the factory repair crew as well. Soon most problems that show up are typical problems for a specific model that can be repaired by simply replacing the defective module (OMPAC, display, etc.). Anything else, including the overhead, is not likely worth the time.
I feel bad for the unfortunate people that are loosing their jobs. It is sad to see the company falling apart bit-by-bit, but they are not the only ones suffering that fate. The same has been happening in the consumer electronic industry for years with names like RCA, GE, Westinghouse and many others.

The points I wanted to make in my previous post above:

1. Some other companies on this world are just as innovative and/or produce just as good a quality product as Motorola does and do this at a lower cost mostly because of lower labor costs.

2. Large amounts of North American money is spend to support these foreign producers at the cost of killing their own producers.

3. Motorola levels the playing field by turning into a foreign producer.

Considering the fate of companies like RCA and GE, what do you suggest Motorola should do?

Nand.

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Postby Dan562 » Wed Oct 12, 2005 9:49 am

The most unfortunate part of this whole issue lies back in the early 20th century with Planned Obsoletism. The great corporations went to work convincing us that it's better to build any product as inexpensive as humanly possible and throw it away in 10 years or less. In fact, if we threw it away every year the corporations would be happier yet making more product and money $$$$$$$$$. That's a Pie-in-the-Sky (College) theory but theory and reality do not always work together in the real world.

At one time the corporations were obliged to sell a product and be able to support the item for 10 years. Today I think they've got that number down to less than 5 years and they're diligently pushing towards 1 year or less. Just what most Public Safety Departments want is to have a $5,000.00 Subscriber unit Warrantied for 1 year or less .... Yeah, Right! I don't know how these Corporate Geniuses ever learned simple Math and write off appreciation values on their own test equipment but they have their own Outsourced Off Shore Accountants to do the numbers. The General Public who has to finance these large city, county, state and federal government system purchases will be part of the so-called working poor class as the middle class Americans get slowly squeezed out of existance!

Who knows, maybe Corporate America is aiming towards "Public Safety Leasing Programs" for the Departments, nothing will be owned by the users or general public only by the Big Corporations in America. The Corporate GREED $$$$$$$ will soffocate the average American person. We'll become a Socialistic Country rather than a Democratic Society, having Dictators as Heads of Government with their Corporate conterparts pulling the strings to what they want to see happen and what Laws are passed or not!

It's all about M-O-N-E-Y, not taking pride in the product or the craftsmanship, work ethics, quality and personnel pride you once possessed. It's now about having the highest educational Degree plus a Masters in Business Administration but willing to work for $12,500.00 per year, not understand what you're trying to Market or care, just as long as you receive a Pay statement without benefits ... equivalent to your Indian or Chinese counterpart worker in Asia.

I guess in retrospect, there's not a thing Corporate America can do to save the American worker's employment, Pride and Quality in our Careers we once held so dearly Developing, Designing, Manufacturing, Testing, Implementing, Repairing and Pleasing OUR Customers around the Globe! I think /\/\ should change their Motto from Intelligence Everywhere! to B.O.H.I.C.A.* Everywhere!

*NOTE: Bend Over Here It Comes Again

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Postby MTS2000des » Wed Oct 12, 2005 1:24 pm

Dan562, you hit it brother.

Corporate America is FedEXing us into becoming a third world nation. The greed for the quick buck is what kills our industial edge. At one time, American industry was revered for our ability to take an idea, a concept to better our lives and mass produce it into our society. It was only a side effect that the maker made a profit. His drive was to better his community and to make life more productive.

Enter the Ed Zanders of the world who like all the corporate elitists have one goal: to better THEIR bottom line, at all cost. They could care less about their fellow man, their communuty, or this nation. as long as they get their quick buck they could care less.

Problem is for the 90 percent of us working class folks, we are the ones who pay the price.
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Postby mastr » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:12 pm

I believe that Motorola is determined to push all radio users in to a subscription-based system. They are already doing this with RSS/CPS, in that you must "subscribe" to the software package or lose the ability to program your radio once it goes to the depot and gets hit with the latest RSS/CPS revision.

At some point in the near future, radios will be sold with an internal program that either disables TX or turns the unit into a brick after some pre-determined time period. Of course, for a fee "M" will sell you a subscription to reactivate the radio. When some enterprising individual figures a work-around to activate the radio he "owns", the Nick/Pat Harrington mess will look like Sunday School.

Any future RFP I write is going to include language to prohibit any software/firmware "upgrade" without written permission and specify that compatible software be provided at no cost if the vendor elects to upgrade S/W.
Last edited by mastr on Wed Oct 12, 2005 6:03 pm, edited 1 time in total.

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Postby kmoose » Wed Oct 12, 2005 2:59 pm

WC4RAV wrote: At one time, American industry was revered for our ability to take an idea, a concept to better our lives and mass produce it into our society. It was only a side effect that the maker made a profit. His drive was to better his community and to make life more productive.


While I am no way sticking up for corporate America, let's not romanticize this issue too much. Are you saying that it was only a side effect that guys like Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, and Carneige made profits? C'mon now.

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Postby bernie » Thu Oct 13, 2005 4:28 pm

My two bits worth:
Ten years ago, 1 December 1995, to be exact I was told "Thanks for 24 years, there is the door"

Watching Motorola self distruct is about the same as watching a loved one sink into the abyss of dimnentia, when death comes it is a releaf, as the mourning has already been done.

Motorola seems to have coperate Ahlzhimer's.

It has been an honor to work with so many wonderful Mororolans over the years, many of them posting in this thread.

I was very fortunate to come on board in the "Golden Years" when Motorola was like a big faimly.

Dave, (DPJ126) took me under his wing many years ago, my mentor.
I appreicate it very much.

Dave, we always knew that you would get the axe eventually.
There is life after Motorola.
Aloha, Bernie

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TE Depot getting the axe too...

Postby kc7gr » Mon Oct 17, 2005 8:05 am

FWIW, and for those who may not have realized it: I just learned from another Batboarder that the Moto test equipment repair depot got sold off to CTDI as well.

The TE depot, unlike the radio section, will stay in Elgin, but the current employees will have to reapply to CTDI to keep their jobs. They're not being 'grandfathered' in. Pay and benefit cuts are likely.

Sheesh... As if I needed even MORE reasons not to do any more business (other than a few parts) with Motorola any more...
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Postby alex » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:08 am

For those of you looking for a kenwood board, or at least a variety of other manufactures - I run http://www.radioinfoboard.com which has forums for just about all the other "popular stuff" which you are welcome to visit.

I have been toying with the idea of adding a Wiki to it as well, however, I might leave the wiking to the hamsexy people.

-Alex
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Your source for information on: Harris/Ma-Comm/EFJ/RELM/Kenwood/ICOM/Thales, equipment.

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Postby ASTROMODAT » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:48 pm

As a stockholder of Motorola, I beleive this will hopefully be a GREAT move.

1. If they do the same thing FedX does, running everything through Texas may actually speed the process. I suspect we will CONTINUE to FedX our ASTRO's to Motorola on a Monday, and expect(and frankly DEMAND) a perfectly repaired XTS-5000 or XTL-5000 by Friday, and maybe Thursday, of that same week.

2. I assume this will help to relieve upward pressures on costs, especially the outrageous medical costs of American labor.

3. As to quality of the work, keep in mind that the Repair Depot has typically $2 million to $4 million worth of automated test gear at each repair station. I know---I've visited the Depot, and I've seen it. High school graduate type folks that simply plug the XTS/XTL into the giant multimillion dollar HP gizmo, and it normally perfectly re-aligns, installs the latest firmware, etc. and many times, all is well. Or, if there is an actual hardware problem, the $4 million HP gizmo IMMEDIATELY tells the human EXACTLYwhich module(s) need to be replaced, etc. You don't need to speakie English, and you certainly don't need to be a rocket scientist. Frankly, I don't want a highjly educated tec trying to out-guess the $4 million HP gizmo. As you know, the giant IBM chess machines have been making mince meat out of the best world chess champs for many years now. Same thing here. I couldn't care less if the minimally educated hooker-upper-guy that connects the radios to the $4 million HP gizmo have a GED in the US, Mexico, or somewhere in Northern Swahilie. Infinitely better than the old method of humans screwing up the works!

Change is good. Those that embrace it succeed and prosper, whilst those that fight it are doomed to failure. I assume many folks here complaining are from the Old School. Get yourself a nice video iPod, fill it with wonderful music, have a beer, and relax. Embrace these changes, and try to accept them. It will make for a happier life. The only thing constant in today's world is change! And, Mexico is a BLAST to visit! Try it, you may like it! Wonderful people there, too. Very friendly.

Sounds to me like a GREAT business move on the part of Motorola.

It's interesting how so many Americans complain about how that bad old Walmart takes away jobs from the Mom & Pop stores, but yet every time I go to a Walmart, Target, Cosco, etc. they are extremely crowded, wall to wall, with my fellow capitalists that are (hypocritcally) taking their buisiness there. Same thing here.

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Postby tvsjr » Mon Oct 17, 2005 5:59 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:As a stockholder of Motorola, I beleive this will hopefully be a GREAT move.


Bahaha. Larry, tell me, can Motorola do any wrong in your eyes? You see nothing wrong with telling hundreds/thousands of employees to take a hike as their Christmas present?

Talk about rabid fanboyism. I guess you got back in line several times for the Motorola Koolaid.

If you like Mexico so much, please feel free to move there. I suspect the majority of us wouldn't be saddened to see you go.

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Postby ASTROMODAT » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:13 pm

If you owned Motorola, tvsjr (which you never will), and you could make hundreds of millions of more in profits by such a move, you would instead give up the extra money so you wouldn't have to lay off people? What if you "only" made an extra 10 million a year? An extra $5 million?

I guess you never shop at K-Mart, Cosco, Target, Walmart, etc.? All of these companies make such business decisions every day.

BTW, as a vet, I have no plans to move. If you'd like to move, I won't hold the door on your way out of my office!

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Postby MTS2000des » Mon Oct 17, 2005 6:35 pm

come on Larry, you think shipping mission critical radios such as XTS/XTL's over the border isnt a security issue? please...and you think it's GOOD to lay off Americans? Not everyone is born with a siver spoon in their mouths. Some people actually go to work 50+ hours a week for modest wages and dont appreciate their employers SELLING them out to slave labor in a foriegn country. Larry I find you to be a total hipo on this one. You slam Japanese radios calling them "rice radios" et al yet your beloved Motorola is becoming less and less domestic every day. And for the record, Kmart sold out to Sears, because like Mexirola, they worked overtime not keeping up with the competition and not taking care of it's customers and employees.

Each day, American corporations sell out. Remember Delphi Electronics? Formerly known as a part of General Motors, filed bankrptcy last week. And events like this are GOOD for the nation? Why dont you get a CLUE Larry. This is much bigger than your little fantasy world. This is indicitave of a bigger problem with this country. As I said before, corporate America is working hard to FedEX us into becoming a third world country. And people like you just want to go on living the lie. One day it will hit you Larry what this is really about. I suggest you prepare yourself for it.

and by the way, at least Kenwood invests in our country, by developing, servicing and selling their industrial/public safety gear right here WITHIN our borders, BY AMERICAN LABOR. While it may not be much, at least they aren't screwing over their employees and customers like Mexirola is.
The views here are my own and do not represent those of anyone else or the company, the boss, his wife, his dog or distant relatives.

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Postby ASTROMODAT » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:04 pm

50+ hours a week? I rarely work less than 70+, but then, too, I own my own business, and I chose a career where I get paid for what I love to do. Work = my hobby, so I don't mind. You may have been born with a gold spoon in your mouth, rav, but I was not. I've earned everything I've built.

Rice Rocket refers to a Japanese radio. Doesn't say it's good, nor bad. So far, the ICOM P25 radios cost MORE than an XTS-1500, so why would I want to pay more, for less functionality?

Delphi is bankrupt due to poor management decisions, as is the case with all bankrupt companies. It's called Capitalism.

The sole obligation of an entrepreneur (including Motorola) is to maximize profits, within the constaints of the law. An entrepreneur that does anything else is a fool, and will pay for it by being punished by the wonderful invisible hand of the marketplace. Why do you think a company gives its best employee(s) raises? Because they "like" them?! No. Because they HAVE to, as they fear losing their best employees to their competitors. When you start thinking that ANY comapny is philanthropic, or somehow "likes" you like a family member, you need to study up on Capitalism, and take a crash course in reality.

Again, I hear all this complaing about how these big companies have driven the Mom's & Pops out of business, yet those most vocipherous complainers are the same ones I see crowding up the check out lanes at K-Mart, Walmart, Cosco, Target, etc. Hypocrits!

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Postby MTS2000des » Mon Oct 17, 2005 7:25 pm

Larry there are other ways to enhance profitability, like not being a fat prick and giving yourself 3 million dollar performance bonuses when your company is 70 million in the hole. You claim to run a business, than you know that if you want to stay ahead of the game, you invest your earnings back in to grow the company. Motorola stopped doing that, just like the other American companies of late. The fat, bloated criminals in suits give themselves raises, drain the company of all profitability, then send it spiraling down into the brown tinged toilet. They go on to perform their predatory acts on other venerable corporations.

Problem is American CEO's and CFO's put their bottom line ahead of all else. This me me me mentality is what destines a company for failure. And Motorola is a victim of their own lousy business practices. They are a corporate bully. A private citizen like myself gets pushed around for selling his LEGALLY OWNED PERSONAL PROPERTY (in this case, a GP-68) on Ebay by Motorola corporate thugs. A Motorola corporate lawyer spends 1.5 million dollars on a laughable case, and attempts to convice a Federal judge that selling used radios should be unlawful. What a waste of our taxpayers money. What a waste of YOUR companies' money and resources. That's 1.5 million dollars that could have been spent on developing new products, paying AMERICAN workers salaries, or if the main concern is "protecting intellectual property", prehaps offering more robust modern products that aren't so easily compromised? Wait..that will never happen.

Meanwhile Kenwood, Icom and Vertex build alliances, invest more and more in domestic (USA that is) operations.

I still say the DOJ should investigate Motorola for antitrust. And they thought Micrsoft was the big bad evil corporation? At least Bill Gates knows how to invest in his community and back into his company. As much as people slam Microsoft, they are a joy to deal with compared to Mexirola.

And what about those public safety radios with encryption modules being shipped across the US border? sounds like a reason to can a contract to me if there ever was one.
The views here are my own and do not represent those of anyone else or the company, the boss, his wife, his dog or distant relatives.

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Postby mr.syntrx » Mon Oct 17, 2005 10:47 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:Rice Rocket refers to a Japanese radio. Doesn't say it's good, nor bad. So far, the ICOM P25 radios cost MORE than an XTS-1500, so why would I want to pay more, for less functionality?


What are you on, Larry?

That's like saying a HT1250 or VX-900 has less functionality than a HT750.

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Postby DJP126 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:07 am

3. As to quality of the work, keep in mind that the Repair Depot has typically $2 million to $4 million worth of automated test gear at each repair station. I know---I've visited the Depot, and I've seen it. High school graduate type folks that simply plug the XTS/XTL into the giant multimillion dollar HP gizmo, and it normally perfectly re-aligns, installs the latest firmware, etc. and many times, all is well. Or, if there is an actual hardware problem, the $4 million HP gizmo IMMEDIATELY tells the human EXACTLYwhich module(s) need to be replaced, etc. You don't need to speakie English, and you certainly don't need to be a rocket scientist. Frankly, I don't want a highjly educated tec trying to out-guess the $4 million HP gizmo. As you know, the giant IBM chess machines have been making mince meat out of the best world chess champs for many years now. Same thing here.


I won't call you a liar Larry but.....

At my bench I have two PCs (one DOS dedicated one Windows), a LVPS, an o'scope (Tektronix TAS485), a solder/desolder system, a handheld multimeter and an R2670A. Where IS MY $4 million HP gizmo? Did you borrow it while you were here? In fact, I don't see any $4 million HP gizmoes at ANY of the other tech stations either.

Yes we do have A.T.E. systems at the depot. They are used by quality control to test what WE service. I take MUCH OFFENSE to your statement and expect an apology. It is obvious to me that you don't know what you are talking about!

Oh, by the way, I am also a Motorola stockholder and I also think it makes perfect sense to put me out of a job & send it to Mexico.':roll:'
Dave

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My one regret...

Postby kc7gr » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:06 am

My one and only regret about the structure of the Batboard is that there's no means to selectively filter posts from your specific view of people that you would rather not hear from (this is not only possible, but workable and very flexible on Usenet newsgroups).

After reading Larry's material in this thread, I can say with confidence he'd certainly be the first entry in my 'filter and forget' list...

Oh, Dave? FWIW, the $4 million that should have gone for your test stand probably ended up in Zander's overseas bank account (I know, dark humor, but whattahey...?)
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Postby jdsw » Tue Oct 18, 2005 5:11 am

ASTROMODAT wrote:

3. As to quality of the work, keep in mind that the Repair Depot has typically $2 million to $4 million worth of automated test gear at each repair station. I know---I've visited the Depot, and I've seen it. High school graduate type folks that simply plug the XTS/XTL into the giant multimillion dollar HP gizmo, and it normally perfectly re-aligns, installs the latest firmware, etc. and many times, all is well. Or, if there is an actual hardware problem, the $4 million HP gizmo IMMEDIATELY tells the human EXACTLYwhich module(s) need to be replaced, etc. You don't need to speakie English, and you certainly don't need to be a rocket scientist. Frankly, I don't want a highjly educated tec trying to out-guess the $4 million HP gizmo. As you know, the giant IBM chess machines have been making mince meat out of the best world chess champs for many years now. Same thing here. I couldn't care less if the minimally educated hooker-upper-guy that connects the radios to the $4 million HP gizmo have a GED in the US, Mexico, or somewhere in Northern Swahilie. Infinitely better than the old method of humans screwing up the works



As a stockholder of Motorola myself,


I would like you to return my $4 million HP gizmo that tells me IMEDIALTY and EXACTLY which module to replace because no ones seen it sense you were here. The programming and updates to your XTS5000 is not done by a $4 million HP gizmo. If that’s what you thought you might want to talk to your sales rep. Us humans might screw it up next time it comes in for repairs.

If companies keep selling out, their will be no one left to buy their products. That includes whatever you sell Larry.

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Big Expensive H-P Gizmos

Postby Dan562 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:15 am

I think you /\/\ Depot Service Personnel might want question Ed Zander and his Merry Men. the /\/\ Board Of Directors where all those Big Fancy Expensive H-P Gizmos funds are being diverted too besides Mexico! I've discovered one source so far:

http://www.careerjournal.com/salaryhiri ... snew_minor

Dave, you might find your A.T.E. H-P Gizmo on EEKBay as another source. It's probably being auctioned off for a $100.00 since not everybody has a clue in the world what it is or does other than Larry.

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Postby DJP126 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:31 am

Dave, you might find your A.T.E. H-P Gizmo on EEKBay as another source. It's probably being auctioned off for a $100.00 since not everybody has a clue in the world what it is or does other than Larry.


I just did a search for H-P gizmo......
Nope, not there :)
Dave

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Re: My one regret...

Postby alex » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:50 am

kc7gr wrote:My one and only regret about the structure of the Batboard is that there's no means to selectively filter posts from your specific view of people that you would rather not hear from (this is not only possible, but workable and very flexible on Usenet newsgroups).


That's possible, it's just not part of the core code for the board. I could probably do it, but the time involved would be too great, and then, I think people would start to loose out.

I know of another board out there that allows you to rate messages, and based on how your peers rate them, they can disappear from a thread, but that also probably wouldn't work in such a small community.

Keep the thread civilized and above the water line please! :)

I feel bad for a lot of the folks who will be workless. You guys have obviously been more than a great resource to the loyal customers - it's sad to see what will become of a great service.

I bet you the mexican drug cartel's will soon be sporting brand new xts5000's running aes256 sooner than later. Maybe the'll start selling them on ebay soon. XTS5000's... the new crack.

-Alex

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Postby SoonFormerMotorolaEmploye » Tue Oct 18, 2005 4:34 pm

$4 million piece of equipment?????

I totaled up all the equipment on my bench and it comes out to be about $90k worth of equip.

1- Dell Desktop
1- HP 8590L Spec Analyzer
1- Gen.Dyn R2660
1- Tek 2247 O-scope
1- Huntron Tracker 1000
1- HP 34401A DMM
1- Hako Solder Station

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Postby radioguruphil » Tue Oct 18, 2005 6:16 pm

I used towork for a COSC . One day they sent a letter telling us that they only wanted to focus on manufacturing. This was when they were getting rid of the sales dept and making dealers. We all picked up on this . The next week they sent a letter saying that they still wanted to do the service part and that they ommitted us by mistake. But the writing was on the wall. Later that year they closed us down and one of the area service managers bought all three of the area COSC'S. Now I am the communication officer fo a town of 25k and I am forced to purchase smartzone or H38 option radios to talk on th state trunk. What a crock. my units never leave the zone. And they wont allow non smart zone on the system.

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Postby Dan562 » Tue Oct 18, 2005 7:09 pm

I totaled up all the equipment on my bench and it comes out to be about $90k worth of equip.

1- Dell Desktop
1- HP 8590L Spec Analyzer
1- Gen.Dyn R2660
1- Tek 2247 O-scope
1- Huntron Tracker 1000
1- HP 34401A DMM
1- Hako Solder Station


Your /\/\ management will be hopping Mad if you can not find your $4 Million Dollar A.T.E. H-P Test Gizmo because /\/\ planned to SCRAP those things out as soon as the Elgin Subscriber Depot is Closed and moved to the Guadalajara, Mexican Depot ... !Si Senor.

Between N.A.F.T.A. and the /\/\ Corporate American Management, You certainly ended up with the /\/\ SHAFTA! At /\/\, Change is Progress .... One Step Forward, and 3000 Steps Back! Here's a thought for the Future Former /\/\ Employees, possibly You did not "Dress for Success!" I've always heard that was a big deal for your individual yearly Personal Commitment! Attitude Is Everything ... IF You don't like this Attitude, You're certainly not going to like my next one!

Since /\/\ Corporate is saving all of this M-O-N-E-Y $$$$$$$ from their Former Dedicated /\/\ Employees Hourly Pay, Salaries and Benefits, You would think the corporation would Gladly drop the Repair Charges and/or Flat Rates by 50% to provide "Total Customer Satisfaction" to their many Customers in the Field! I think that would be fair deal.

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Postby nmfire10 » Wed Oct 19, 2005 4:15 am

Dan562 wrote: I think that would be fair deal.


And since when have they gave a crap about that??

:evil:
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Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"

:-?

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Re: My one regret...

Postby mr.syntrx » Wed Oct 19, 2005 7:14 am

alex wrote:I bet you the mexican drug cartel's will soon be sporting brand new xts5000's running aes256 sooner than later. Maybe the'll start selling them on ebay soon. XTS5000's... the new crack.
-Alex


US Customs will be busting boats full of bootleg ASTROs instead of smack :D

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Postby Dan562 » Thu Oct 20, 2005 9:00 am

"A Wolf in Sheep Clothing!" Hmmm ... What an interesting concept.

The customers will call into a listed /\/\ Subscriber telephone number to get their RMA number. The Outsourced CDTI company's personel will answer the telephone calls by saying, "Thank You for calling MEXITOROLA .... I meant MOTOROLA, What type of a Subscriber unit are you sending in for Disrepair? Here's your Return MEXITOROLA Authorization number and please send the radio equipment to our new El Paso, Texas location address just built 90 days ago by "Cheaply paid Wet Backs!"

The /\/\ Outsourced CDTI personnel will be busy assigning Export Control Classification Numbers to the Subscriber units trying to get them across the U.S. / Mexico Border and back again because if they are wrong, the Subscriber units will sit in Customs for months at a time mounting Big Fines $$$$$$. I wonder who will pay for that alone, not to be forgotten your "Priority One" Subscriber Disrepaired units! Oh, this is going to be a Great New M-O-N-E-Y Savings Idea from /\/\!

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Postby Alan » Fri Oct 21, 2005 5:16 am

What a bunch of whining and complaining.
No one has actual facts to post so just post a bunch of speculation.
Our radio's have crossed the border for years without issue. We still have a 5-day turn around. Why not wait to see if maybe things might even improve in some ways.

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Postby kmoose » Fri Oct 21, 2005 7:15 am

Alan wrote:What a bunch of whining and complaining.
No one has actual facts to post so just post a bunch of speculation.
Our radio's have crossed the border for years without issue. We still have a 5-day turn around. Why not wait to see if maybe things might even improve in some ways.


Alan,

There is a growing frustration, here in the States, about U.S. companies shipping more and more jobs out of the country. In my opinion, there is decent cause for this: As a populace, we are often told that we should display our "patriotism" by buying products that are made domestically. Even when foreign products might be of higher quality. Many American workers feel that some companies have built their profits with significant help from the ingenuity of their workforce. So, each time a company sends jobs out of the country, people get offended. It's a natural human reaction. Add to the above, the fact that most of the users of Motorola's products are in what many of us consider "patriotic" professions (Police, Fire, EMS, etc.), and you can see why people are upset.

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Postby MTS2000des » Fri Oct 21, 2005 10:30 am

and Alan, the problem of exported labor isn't just an American issue, our subsidiaries of Motorola (Moto LTD), General Motors, etc will soon start exporting your Canadian jobs..only a matter of time. Maybe the exporting isn't such a big issue in Canada, maybe the Canadian government deals with this differently, maybe the Canadian citizens don't care.

In the US, however, this is a big issue for us. Our nation was founded as an industrial mecca and we are quickly becoming a nation of consumers who will soon not even have the power to consume because we will all be out of work if our live-for-today who cares about tommorow self centered CEO thugs keep selling us out to cheap labor. And thanks to SHAFTA we give great incentives to send our jobs across the border to sweat shops where a .50 an hour wage is king. There is no OSHA, Dept of Labor, health insurance, or unions to deal with in Mexico. So it is easy to see why the Ed Zander wiget company would want to sell out.

Face it folks Ma M is dying and going the way of other once great American icons like General Electric, RCA, Zenith, and so many others. All Motorola will soon be is just a trade name for sale to the highest foriegn bidder. Can you soon see user guides being printed in Chinglish and Spanglish? You know, like the early manuals for the Japanese rigs...
reads like some of the stuff on http://www.engrish.com
The views here are my own and do not represent those of anyone else or the company, the boss, his wife, his dog or distant relatives.


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