AS3 and message "OLD EMC"

[oh2glg]

Dear Moto gurus,

I while ago I bought an Astro Saber III from another Batboard member.
Then I purchased a DES-XL NTN1153D module from another Batboarder. Thanks for both sellers.

Now, after installing the module into my AS3 and enabled "secure equipped" tab on CPS I seem to have some sort of problem.

After startup AS3 beebs once and shows text "OLD EMC" and does that again after a while. I should note that the radio still works well with analog or digital (APCO-25) mode, as long it's clear, not secure.

Also, probably related to problem described above, I haven't been able to transfer a test key from my KVL to AS3. All what KVL says is "FAIL". It works with analog Sabers.. although they are quite different beasts to compare.

Here's some information of this radio from Service mode:
Host R07.22.01
DSP N08.03.02
EMC: R01.00
KG1 None
KG2 None
KG3 None
H04RDH9PW7AN
Flash code 599108-145E00-0

So, does my radio have too new firmware or what's the deal here? How to fix this annoyance?

There lies another thing to solve. As far as I know, I was told that this KVL T3011 has been upgraded from AX to DX, but how can I be sure and verify it has actually been upgraded?

(oh, by the way, this KVL says "ASM" on startup. This means.. what?)

[tvsjr]

The encryption module is too old. If memory serves, the EMC must be >R02.00 for R07 host firmware.

[oh2glg]

The encryption module is too old. If memory serves, the EMC must be >R02.00 for R07 host firmware.

OK, that's what I was afraid of.. Can it be upgraded?

[tvsjr]

The old modules, no. The R03 UCMs can be.

You should probably look around for an NTN8967 board. You might check with oh2lak (I make the assumption you know him) and see if he has a newer board you could try for testing purposes.

[Pj]

The old encyption modules should work fine, but will not work with CKR? management turned on. I have some .06 and 1.0 modules that work just fine (1153) for your normal secure stuff.

Check to see if CKR is turned on. If it is, uncheck it, and the message should go away.

[oh2glg]

The old encyption modules should work fine, but will not work with CKR? management turned on. I have some .06 and 1.0 modules that work just fine (1153) for your normal secure stuff.

Check to see if CKR is turned on. If it is, uncheck it, and the message should go away.

Ah, thanks a lot! Using "CKR" as key word I was able to find more articles about this subject where others have explained similar problems - like here: "CKR/ASN/Multikey and keyloading".
I'll look at it more tomorrow and report what I'll find.

Then there's the issue with my KVL. The display text on its display in power on looks more like "ASN".. Advanced SecureNet"? So it is a DX model after all? Right?

[MattSR]

Not necessarily, that menu is there in the CX as well.

Disable CKR on your radio and try again, I am sure this will fix the issue. If not, then you probably don't have a DX.

[K2JLX]

I had the exact same issue this evening, but in a mid power Astro Spectra. I thought it was game over for my module until i read this thread that was conveniently started today.. cheers..and PJ your a genius. Hats off.

[tvsjr]

and PJ your a genius. Hats off.

Now I wouldn't go *that* far.

[MattSR]

You dont *NEED* CKR anyway if you are using a T3011 series keyloader.

Only time you need CKR is when you are using a KVL3000/KVL3000+ that is flashed for ASTRO25 operation.

I can't think of any reason why you would need it otherwise..

[oh2glg]

Well, CKR it was! After disabling it a few things changed.

One thing remained same though, KVL still says "FAILED" when trying to load a test key into AS. Radio goes into KEYLOAD mode when KVL cable is connected, it didn't do even that when CKR was enabled..

Hmm. Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't AS have same pins used to connect a KVL as analog Sabers did?

[MattSR]

That sounds right. when the firmware is too old, the radios HOST firmware disables all secure operations, including keyloading.

The ASTRO saber and analog sabers use the same cable - I have a DX and it works on both my analog sabers and AS3.

Cheers
Matt

[oh2glg]

Maybe I should clarify few details, in case I expressed myself in a way that could be taken wrong... That might happen easily since my third language is the one that is spoken widely all over the world: "Bad English"

So after I disabled CKR from CPS, the behaviour of AS changed in three ways: Firstly it doesn't say "OLD EMC" anymore at all and secondly it started transmitting in secure on both analog (securenet) and digital astro mode. Third difference is that when I connect KVL cable into AS, it beebs and "KEYLOAD" text appears on the AS display.

One thing remained as it was before: When I press PTT on the KVL it tries to send key into AS, but after a second KVL beebs and "FAIL" text appears on the KVL screen. From that I might conclude that my KVL isn't a DX model, despite the fact it was sold as DX..

[mr.syntrx]

Does the KVL prompt you for a KID immediately aftering a complete DES key?

[oh2glg]

Does the KVL prompt you for a KID immediately aftering a complete DES key?

Aftering = after entering I believe? :)

I checked 3011DX manual again and compared instructions to my KVL behaviour.. I'm afraid no, it doesn't.

In the user manual it's called Logical ID Key Identifier. My KVL does not ask for any ID number after entering key variable.

So then I believe it's quite sure that this KVL is not in fact a DX model. Hmm. Me, sucker? Oh yes, I'm afraid..

Well, next logical step would be to upgrade my KVL to DX-model. Right?

[4n6inv]

The bad news is, you have a T3011CX, and you have to have the DX to work with Astro, regardless of EMC rev.

The good news is, you only have to upgrade the firmware chip. The better news is, I have plenty of the upgrade chips and will sell you one for $40.00, which was the NSO price when they were avaiable. Let me know if you're interested. I'm out of town untl the end of the week, but I can help you out on the KVL, and possibly the seurenet module, if you're interested.I'll have to check my stock on DES modules.

Jim

[mr.syntrx]

Does the KVL prompt you for a KID immediately aftering a complete DES key?

Aftering = after entering I believe?

Sorry, yep - that's what I get for posting at 0400

I checked 3011DX manual again and compared instructions to my KVL behaviour.. I'm afraid no, it doesn't.

In the user manual it's called Logical ID Key Identifier. My KVL does not ask for any ID number after entering key variable.

So then I believe it's quite sure that this KVL is not in fact a DX model. Hmm. Me, sucker? Oh yes, I'm afraid..

That's right.

Well, next logical step would be to upgrade my KVL to DX-model. Right?

Yep, if you can still find an upgrade kit out there, which consists of a new EPROM with firmware and an EEPROM for key storage. There have been upgrades available from clandestine sources from time to time, but even those are rare.

[4n6inv]

My Firmware chips are 100% Motorola original. I bought a pallet of old KVL's some years ago, and upgraded them. I have about 8 sets left. The EEPROM is a x24c16 serial - still available, but hard to find in the socket configuration. I have about 8 of those left, also if anyone is interested.