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TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

This forum is dedicated to discussions pertaining specifically to the Motorola ASTRO line of radios (those that use VSELP/IMBE/AMBE), including using digital modulation, digital programming, FlashPort upgrades, etc. If you have general questions please use the General or Programming forums.

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libuff
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TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby libuff » Fri Apr 04, 2008 6:10 pm

i know this subject has been tossed around from time to time on this message board, but i have found the solution...

FDNY uses TPS signaling on their fireground channels to transmit an ASTRO ID on conventional channels.

to enable this on the 2500/5000... you need to setup a personality with:
Mixed Mode RX
Astro Tx
T/G Disabled
Signaling Disabled
and secure disabled or set to clear only.

under the TPS options in radio-wide settings...
Conventional TPS Signaling:
PTT Transmissions -- Both

now when you assign the personality to a channel, it will transmit identically to the way the FDNY portables do... how buffy!

i do not have the FDNY tone options that many have talked about prior... i wonder if the signaling will xmit over a conventional repeater, although i doubt it will... and im not even sure if it xmits PL/DPL under the signaling... i'm testing as we speak...
Last edited by libuff on Sun Apr 06, 2008 6:31 am, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Eureka! - TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Fri Apr 04, 2008 8:31 pm

It may or may not over a repeater w/PL... It may on POST, but it probably won't decode. Really all TPSK is is P25 digital signaling with analog voice. FDNY does not use an PL/DPL on fireground, I think they went as far as to tell the FCC don't license someone within X miles of NYC proper so that they own the channel.

Any radio regardless of having the FDNY option in it should support TPSK providing it has digital in it.

The option enables different logic when certain actions are performed that are specific to their fire ground operation. Short of that, you should be able to set the radio up as mentioned above, or by simply following the help file. There's a specific mix of features as you can see that turn this on/off.

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Re: Eureka! - TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Nexrad16 » Fri Apr 04, 2008 9:34 pm

Do I remember correctly that you lose scan when doing this? Something but I cannot recall. Hmmm...

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Re: Eureka! - TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby libuff » Sat Apr 05, 2008 3:50 am

repeater, works ONLY post... it does xmit pre, but too fast for the repeater to catch it...

loosing the scan is the issue with DVRS, not this... seems to be working fine...

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby KDN » Sat Oct 25, 2008 11:15 am

Could someone send me a codeplug or assist me a little further with this method. . . Tried following the above steps but cannot get it to work.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Pj » Sun Oct 26, 2008 2:56 am

What radio, host/dsp, flashcode?
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Sun Oct 26, 2008 6:14 am

KDN wrote:Could someone send me a codeplug or assist me a little further with this method. . . Tried following the above steps but cannot get it to work.


You need to read the help file. Search it for TPS or TPSK and follow through the instructions from within CPS. There has to be an almost perfect storm of features aligning for it to work right.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby KDN » Sun Oct 26, 2008 8:19 am

XTS2500 Model II 450-512

100001-000004-3

Q811 - P25 Digital Conventional
Q667 - ADP Encryption

Host Version 9.00.01
DSP 9.00.01

I followed the help file exact still with no luck. . . . Any guidance anyone?

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby KDN » Thu Oct 30, 2008 8:34 pm

Upgraded the Firmware to 12.00.10 and works flawless!

Thanks

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby ASTROnomic » Fri Nov 14, 2008 6:25 pm

Just adding an FYI or those that stumble upon this thread: Works with XTS 2500 UHF R2 with HOST R09.00.05 and DSP R09.00.02, so you don't have to be on R12.

As libuff stated before, read the CPS help, the conditions MUST BE EXACTLY AS DESCRIBED IN THERE.

For best results (and cooler sound), create a new ASTRO SYSTEM and run preamble to max (254).

n/S

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Nexrad16 » Fri Nov 14, 2008 7:42 pm

Anyone have an audio clip? What does this sound like?

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby ASTROnomic » Mon Nov 17, 2008 11:36 pm

Nexrad16 wrote:Anyone have an audio clip? What does this sound like?


No but it sounds the same as a P25 CAI Data Registration / SDNCP IP packet. The ID is transmitted well under 300ms unless you give it a little extra sync. ;-)

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby quint 18 » Mon Jul 13, 2009 11:20 am

what is tps ?????

thanks
Fred

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby dxon2m » Mon Jul 13, 2009 4:01 pm

Tactical Public Safety

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby quint 18 » Fri Jul 17, 2009 6:46 pm

ok is it a form of mdc ?

where would one use it and what for ?

will xts5k decode it?

thanks for your time

Fred

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Pj » Sat Jul 18, 2009 5:30 am

It uses an ASTRO data packet to transmit the unit ID.

The XTS5000 will decode it, if you have the correct flash that supports the FDNY signalling.
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby quint 18 » Sat Jul 18, 2009 12:48 pm

OK thanks to all for the help will try to program it and see how it works

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Sat Jul 18, 2009 6:25 pm

Pj wrote:It uses an ASTRO data packet to transmit the unit ID.

The XTS5000 will decode it, if you have the correct flash that supports the FDNY signalling.


PJ -

You do not need the FDNY Signaling in order to decode the ID's. Any radio can transmit or recieve TPS signaling without any special flash. The FDNY feature changes the algorithm that the radio follows when going into emergency and a couple other subtle things that most of us here would not notice. It does change the emergency alert to sound kind of like a pass alarm when you press emergency though!

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby quint 18 » Tue Jul 21, 2009 5:30 pm

ok will it work on an astro saberIII

Thanks Fred

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Tue Jul 21, 2009 8:10 pm

quint 18 wrote:ok will it work on an astro saberIII

Thanks Fred


ONLY Astro 25 platform radios.

Exception: XTS3500's from/for the FDNY.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Wed Jul 22, 2009 2:44 pm

FDNY signalling: It's the new MODAT! Your radio can make pointless noises that only a true radio geek thinks is cool. :lol: But everybody else on the channel just thinks "Why is that retard transmitting annoying tones on every transmission?"


Truth. FDNY signalling and modat ARE NOT COOL to use on any but private nets used ONLY by other radio geeks such as yourself. Try to use them on any
other radio system and you'll have other users asking you to quit it very shortly, and they will probably be saying very unkind things about you behind your back,
off the air.


Elroy

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Pj » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:07 pm

No. The only thing that is different is what alex said...the radio will emit a pass alarm sound if you set off the emergency feature. Otherwise, the I'd transmitted is an extremely short datapacket that is hardly noticable
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:19 pm

It's still just another pointless "roger beep" if you aren't actually USING the signalling. Sorry, but to the rest of the world, it IS lame. I'm just telling the absolute truth here, and not holding back on it.

Elroy

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Pj » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:38 pm

If you want/need a unit Id of more than 4 characters, I don't think its useless. Besides, the id itself is almost inaudible. The modat argurement doesn't hold
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby motoman30 » Wed Jul 22, 2009 3:45 pm

Elroy, I think you may be confusing FDNY Emergency TX/RX Toneset with TPS Signaling. Both are SP features for FDNY.

No ASTRO25 radio that I've ever seen supported the "FDNY Emergency TX/RX Toneset". There's no menu option for it. Even in a whored-out fully flashed radio. I think it's a feature which may be specific to the SSE5000 only.

Anyone who happens to get a SSE5000 and use the TX/RX Toneset thing, is probably a huge whacker! There's enough whackers on this board so I'm sure one will show up eventually

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Wed Jul 22, 2009 4:14 pm

motoman30 wrote:Elroy, I think you may be confusing FDNY Emergency TX/RX Toneset with TPS Signaling. Both are SP features for FDNY.

No ASTRO25 radio that I've ever seen supported the "FDNY Emergency TX/RX Toneset". There's no menu option for it. Even in a whored-out fully flashed radio. I think it's a feature which may be specific to the SSE5000 only.

Anyone who happens to get a SSE5000 and use the TX/RX Toneset thing, is probably a huge whacker! There's enough whackers on this board so I'm sure one will show up eventually



:lol:

I don't doubt that in the least!


I may or may not be right about which toneset I'm thinking of, but in any event, I consider it to be absolutely silly to be running around with some tone/data
bursts coming out of your radio on every transmission when you don't have any need for it. To me, that IS the very definition of radio whackerism.

For the moment I choose to mostly ignore the idea of someone having an SSE5000. For some time to come I think that any of those in private hands is
all too likely to be stolen. We all know that Motorola only officially sold them to a single agency. And reportedly, though I haven't gone through the entire
service manual and started entering part numbers into my MOL account order sheet to get P/A, some of the parts you'd need to build your own are not
available for ordering outside of the NY contract.

Elroy

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Wed Jul 22, 2009 6:44 pm

motoman30 wrote:Elroy, I think you may be confusing FDNY Emergency TX/RX Toneset with TPS Signaling. Both are SP features for FDNY.


This statement is not completly true. TPS signaling is standard on ANY astro 25 platform radio that has P25 in it. The FLASH option G857- FDNY Emergency Tone Set CHANGES how the radio performs emergency functions. FDNY uses ALL XTS3500 UHF Model I HT's set at 1 watt for fireground. There are some 5000's in circulation amongst the chiefs or special units, but if your on a big red truck in NYC you have a 3500. G857 changes the emergency instruction set that the radio follows when transmitting or getting an emergency.

No ASTRO25 radio that I've ever seen supported the "FDNY Emergency TX/RX Toneset". There's no menu option for it. Even in a whored-out fully flashed radio. I think it's a feature which may be specific to the SSE5000 only.


Again, ANY Astro25 platform radio supports this tone set, however, I've been told that it will only perform certain functions of the flash feature in other bands. It is really ONLY supposed to be used in the 450-520 range UHF S cut radios.

Anyone who happens to get a SSE5000 and use the TX/RX Toneset thing, is probably a huge whacker! There's enough whackers on this board so I'm sure one will show up eventually


I know a few people who are members here and also have them issued by the department here. They are not flashed for P25 and they are not flashed with the FDNY Tone set. They could be but they are not.
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Thu Jul 23, 2009 8:46 pm

No, the FDNY toneset is not supported in the firmware for the XTS5000. You could have the development software for the radio and enable EVERY feature and it STILL would not work on a 5K. If your flashcode was FFFFFF-FFFFFF-F and you had version 14 code you still wouldn't have it. (The CPS would crash, for one,
and version 14 code doesn't exist yet. But Astro 25 version 13 is out now. I'm using it.)

THERE IS NO MENU OPTION FOR THE FDNY TONESET IN A 5K!

PERIOD.

You don't have any friends who have this feature working on a 5K. Not a chance.


The firmware that might support that feature hasn't been written, and if it has, it hasn't been released to ANYBODY.

Elroy

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:00 pm

Elroy Jetson wrote:THERE IS NO MENU OPTION FOR THE FDNY TONESET IN A 5K!


Your 100% correct. There is no menu option for the FDNY Tone set in a 5k. I'm very happy to know that you have not located one and I can finally call off my search. I don't know what I'll do with my Friday now.

You don't have any friends who have this feature working on a 5K. Not a chance.


Depends on who your friends are I guess. I guess in theory I could be friends with some of the radio guys who are responsible for the FDNY radio contract, but I guess I may also not know any of them.

The firmware that might support that feature hasn't been written, and if it has, it hasn't been released to ANYBODY. Elroy


I dunno. The radio's I have seen if you put one with and one without next to each other they appear to do completely different things when you press emergency on a TPS personality.
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Pj » Thu Jul 23, 2009 9:10 pm

My XTS2500 with that option worked just fine in Staten Island today on HT-1.
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Fri Jul 24, 2009 3:19 am

The 2500 DOES have that option.

The 5000 does NOT, UNLESS it's using SP software with SP code written to support it. Which is technically possible, and I guess NYFD is a big enough
customer that Motorola might develop those things for them upon demand. But SP product support is limited to the customer that orders it in nearly
every case. Outside of the NYFD contract, you're probably going to have zero success in obtaining such code via normal channels.


Elroy

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby tvsjr » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:34 am

So I presume you have a copy of the R13 source code and have gone through it?

You seem to be missing the point. The FDNY toneset, if present in the flashcode, changes how the radio behaves when emergency is activated, assuming the conventional personality is set up in a certain way. It functions fully on 450-520 radios, not so fully on other bands (but there are still observable changes). There doesn't have to be a menu option... simply having the bit enabled in the flashcode makes the radio do different things.

Elroy Jetson wrote:You don't have any friends who have this feature working on a 5K. Not a chance.

Be careful with such blanket statements. You'd be surprised who and what happen to be lurking around this forum.

I do like your logic:
Elroy Jetson wrote:The firmware that might support that feature hasn't been written, and if it has, it hasn't been released to ANYBODY.

Elroy Jetson wrote:You don't have any friends who have this feature working on a 5K. Not a chance.

Elroy Jetson wrote:The 5000 does NOT, UNLESS it's using SP software with SP code written to support it. Which is technically possible, and I guess NYFD is a big enough
customer that Motorola might develop those things for them upon demand. But SP product support is limited to the customer that orders it in nearly
every case. Outside of the NYFD contract, you're probably going to have zero success in obtaining such code via normal channels.


So, it doesn't exist, and if it does, NO ONE has it. But maybe someone has it, but YOU don't have any friends that have it. But maybe it's an SP and the entire FDNY has it. All of which are wrong, but that's another matter! :lol:

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Pj » Fri Jul 24, 2009 4:49 am

I got the new coversheet for my TPS reports.
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Fri Jul 24, 2009 7:19 am

Elroy Jetson wrote:The 2500 DOES have that option.

The 5000 does NOT, UNLESS it's using SP software with SP code written to support it.

Elroy


Oh the 2500 but not the 5000 has the option?

Riddle me this then batman -

The XTS3500 has this feature. This radio was made well before the XTS5000. By your logic, Motorola skipped including this in the XTS5000 only to put it back in the XTS2500 firmware?

Yeah, that makes a whole lot of sense.

Find me a UHF 450-520 split XTS2500 currently used in active firefighting duty in the FDNY and we'll have another discussion about this.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Fri Jul 24, 2009 8:22 am

It's doubtful that I'll actually do that because I wouldn't waste my money on a 2500. I don't care for them.

It's all pretty academic to me anyway. We're taking about features that aren't very useful if you aren't a NY fireman anyway.

Might as well discuss the merits of MODAT. :lol:


But, if I do run across any definitive information on that particular feature vs. the 2500, I will run it by you.
Hopefully everyone here is most interested in learning the truth about what features are available on any given radio,
and what features are NOT available.


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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Fri Jul 24, 2009 10:30 am

Elroy Jetson wrote:It's doubtful that I'll actually do that because I wouldn't waste my money on a 2500. I don't care for them.


That really wasn't the point. You don't have to go out and buy one, I'm simply saying show me a 2500 in active service on the strap of a FDNY firefighter. I can save you the time, money, and effort and simply tell you they don't have them. If you choose to believe me, well, that I could care less about.

It's all pretty academic to me anyway. We're taking about features that aren't very useful if you aren't a NY fireman anyway.


You actually don't even need the flash option to decode the ID's. You just need to program the radio correctly as described in the thread. You probably will not find another agency who is using TPS signaling anyway. According to the revision list you need at least R06 Firmware and CPS. In fact, you don't even need to use TPS signaling [to see some of the emergency benefits of the FDNY Tone option]... It changed the emergency tones and everything for MDC as well. I think it's a much better implementation of emergency personally, but that's just my two cents.

But, if I do run across any definitive information on that particular feature vs. the 2500, I will run it by you. Hopefully everyone here is most interested in learning the truth about what features are available on any given radio, and what features are NOT available.


Where are you getting your information anyway that you are so dead set on the fact that NO XTS5000 has this feature?
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:31 am

8)

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby alex » Fri Jul 24, 2009 11:36 am

Elroy Jetson wrote:8)


Yeah, That's what I thought :)
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby motorola_otaku » Mon Jul 27, 2009 10:56 am

On a -somewhat- related note, when did the 5 borough VHF dispatch channels get UHF multicasts? I was quite surprised to find that I could scan FDNY and NYPD with one radio when I landed in Joisey last week.

Better still, I heard a weird pulsing hi/lo tone come across at one point, although I think that may have been their weird evac tone.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Pj » Mon Jul 27, 2009 11:18 am

Fairly recenty. New citywide UHF TRS is operational as well.
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XTS5000 TPS Emergency Beacon

Postby jbella » Wed Jul 29, 2009 8:22 am

Does anyone use this feature, and what type of info do you have for me?

The radio acts as an additional PASS device, emitting an odd multi tone squawk from a portable initiating an emergency signal.

My main problem is that the beacon resets as soon as the MCC5500 console acknowledges the emergency. I want the beacon to continue to sound until it is either cleared by the console (manually) or reset by the user. I got the beacon to sound continually before our consoles were installed. Now it resets within a second or so, rendering the feature basically useless. The radios are used in analog mode for firefighting.

The techs installing the system and programming everything have tried multiple options but can't seem to get the beacon to do what we want it to do either. They are admittedly somewhat unfamiliar with the TPS suite.

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Re: XTS5000 TPS Emergency Beacon

Postby alex » Wed Jul 29, 2009 11:13 am

jbella wrote:Does anyone use this feature, and what type of info do you have for me?

The radio acts as an additional PASS device, emitting an odd multi tone squawk from a portable initiating an emergency signal.

My main problem is that the beacon resets as soon as the MCC5500 console acknowledges the emergency. I want the beacon to continue to sound until it is either cleared by the console (manually) or reset by the user. I got the beacon to sound continually before our consoles were installed. Now it resets within a second or so, rendering the feature basically useless. The radios are used in analog mode for firefighting.

The techs installing the system and programming everything have tried multiple options but can't seem to get the beacon to do what we want it to do either. They are admittedly somewhat unfamiliar with the TPS suite.


Do the radios have the FDNY Feature in it?

The issue with this is going to be that the consoles will see this as a standard P25 Emergency and not a "TPS" function. All TPS gets you is P25 signaling with analog voice (a la MDC). So I think if you look at the protocol you will just see Emergency form Radio 12345678.

The FDNY does not activly monitor or have consoles on HT1 (Fireground). There is NOTHING to send an acknowledge packet to the radio. There are no RX sites (to my knowledge) or central transmitter for FDNY fireground in the city.

So if you are using this feature on a channel that is actively monitored by a console you probably will have to see if there is a way to disable emergency acknowledge (which there may not be a way to) on the console side.

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Re: XTS5000 TPS Emergency Beacon

Postby jbella » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:06 pm

alex wrote:Do the radios have the FDNY Feature in it?

The issue with this is going to be that the consoles will see this as a standard P25 Emergency and not a "TPS" function. All TPS gets you is P25 signaling with analog voice (a la MDC). So I think if you look at the protocol you will just see Emergency form Radio 12345678.

The FDNY does not activly monitor or have consoles on HT1 (Fireground). There is NOTHING to send an acknowledge packet to the radio. There are no RX sites (to my knowledge) or central transmitter for FDNY fireground in the city.

So if you are using this feature on a channel that is actively monitored by a console you probably will have to see if there is a way to disable emergency acknowledge (which there may not be a way to) on the console side.


Negative on the FDNY signaling package, only H14 Enhanced Digital ID Display (as well as the usual Q806 & H35).

The FDNY package really should have nothing to do with anything (except apparently to get a few members all wound up) . While I am a big FDNY buff, I'm trying to optimize the system for our members' safety, not to make us sound like the Bronx.

Any idea what the rationale is to having an emergency beacon if it's knocked down as soon as it's automatically acknowledged by the console? It makes zero sense to me.

I'm pretty sure I'll get nowhere, but I do intend on following this up with Motorola. If I have to write something up for a magazine or website I may.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Pj » Thu Jul 30, 2009 5:33 pm

(I skipped a bit of the above, so hopefully this is somewhat accurate for the question).

If the EMER is acknoledge by the console, this its done its job. Otherwise the radio will continue with its programmed polite and impolite retries until the EMER is ack'd.

Unless you need more ID's than what MDC1200 can provide you, there isn't much your going to gain with TPS. As Alex as said, all the FDNY option does is change some of the audio alerts heard thru the radio speaker while used with TPS. The TPS signalling sounds like a MDC DOS squawk and activating the EMER button transmits the EMER packet, but also turns the radio into a PASS device. I'll try to grab an audio clip of it this weekend.

I haven't played with TPS signalling with a P25 system, or a console that would/could support it. If your using P25, then chances are your not going to be using TPS signalling. If your using TPS on a conventional system - chances are your not going to be decoding the datapacket (maybe if your hardware supports mixed mode?)

Just rambling here. In short - on the FIREGROUND if you need the ID's and your going to have someone babysit a radio display, MDC should work just fine.
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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby jbella » Tue Aug 04, 2009 5:13 am

So for all the yapping someone did earlier in this thread about how uncool certain sounds were, when it comes to a legitimate question about radio options and why they don't work correctly he has no answers?

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Tue Aug 04, 2009 6:19 am

Why don't you go ahead and just mention me by name? Don't hide behind veiled references or obvious ones.

I'm exploring the question. I want to be dead certain of my reply when I give it.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby jbella » Wed Aug 05, 2009 7:17 am

Mainly because within minutes you always had a sarcastic reply.

As even those of us with more limited experience in programming know, when it comes to Motorola, even a 'dead certainty' isn't always certain. I'm open to listening to any advice, even speculation (and thanks to others for the speculation).

I had started a new thread for this but it was merged into here for some reason.

For me, and my department, I find this issue of high importance for safety reasons. I'm not your typical Safety Nazi or King of Outside Attack, but if there's an issue where I can enhance my safety and the safety of everyone I work with, I'm not going to let it rest. This particular issue pisses me off because of Motorola's propaganda about it being the total solution, yada yada. Yet their sales people have no clue and the techs have not been able to find a solution. It's also ridiculous that a customer has to resort to a message board to get technical answers.

In no way does the above paragraph denigrate anyone here or this place. In fact I think it's more of an affirmation of why this place is so successful and so full of knowledge.

So if you find an answer, thank you. If you don't, thank you but I'd still like to hear your 'uncertainty' or speculation.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Wed Aug 05, 2009 2:40 pm

You're right, there are no dead certainties with Motorola equipment. Particularly in the high tier public safety products, there
are so many ways to configure, properly or improperly, any given radio or system that any absolute statement should only be made after
extensive research.

For example, Motorola originally intended that no trunked radio should be able to invisibly monitor one of their trunked systems. Every radio
is intended to be visible to the system controller.

But many loopholes have been found, which work in every system from your ancient Privacy Plus system to today's Astro SmartZone OmniLink digital system,
and probably including the full-blown P25 trunked system type as well.

I really don't like saying "That can't be done, and that's that" and later find out that I'm not exactly right about that. I don't like to be wrong.

I can say this: There are features that in theory CAN be enabled on an XTS 2500 or 5000 that don't actually work on that specific platform but will work on
the other. And as you can tell by the absolutely ridiculous feature packages that have been listed as being in a number of radios that have shown up
on ebay, or even in our own buy/sell forums, it's very obvious that someone has cracked the flashport system for Astro AND Astro 25 radios, but by no
means does that mean that all those features actually work properly. I've seen Modat in the decoded features list in a 5K...and that's not even supported
in the firmware revisions that I'm somewhat familiar with. (However, the flash decoder may not be accurate for Astro 25 radios, too.)
I've also seen a radio that someone had enabled FPP in, but apparently botched the job very badly as you could not edit any channel in the radio AT ALL,
not with the CPS and not with the radio's keypad.


I don't want to make a definitive answer when I can't back it up. Particularly when I don't have a radio with the features of interest in this discussion
available to me for me to explore. But I'm doing what I can to gather more data.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby Elroy Jetson » Wed Aug 05, 2009 3:00 pm

Going back to square one, I explored TPS first. I'm using a VHF 5K III model which has CAI enabled along with voice channel announcement and not much else.

I'm making NO assumptions at all. Starting over. Forgetting what I know or THINK I know, just to avoid going down the wrong path or failing to go down the right one.

Attempting to enable TPS exactly as described in the first post of this topic resulted in no apparent signalling changes. The radio simply transmits in Astro mode
and I haven't YET found that the transmission is in any way different than if I had not attempted to use TPS.

The radio has "latest edition" Host R12.00.13 and DSP R12.00.04 firmware in it. Using CPS version 12.00.00 at the moment.


I'll continue to investigate.

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Re: TPS Signaling - FDNY type of signaling

Postby jbella » Thu Aug 06, 2009 9:08 am

Am I being clear enough in what I am looking for and what I'm trying to enable? I'm trying not to confuse TPS with FDNY signaling.

The audible Emergency Beacon makes a unique, PASS type sound when the emergency button is pushed. Only on the initiating radio. In theory it would give a search team another audio clue as to the location of a downed firefighter.

Before our MCC5500 was installed and we were playing around with different options for the portables, the radio would squawk until the initiator reset his emergency button. Now, with the MCC5500, the squawk happens once and shuts off automatically. [See above for a rant on how useless that is]

So in other words, we got it to work without the MCC5500, but since our emergency default is Zone 1 Ch 1, we can't get it to activate without being acknowledged.

Hope I'm being clear but not redundant.


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