Programming split PL talkaround on XTS portables

[mab]

I noticed that under ASTRO25 CPS 14, when I enable talkaround on channels on an XTS portable, when in talkaround mode on split PL systems (different PL for the repeater input and output) it sets the transmit PL to be the PL for the repeater input rather than the repeater output. You'd not notice this on systems with the same PL for the input and the output, but the default behavior seems to be broken for split PL systems.

Other than manually programming the talkaround PL tone on every zone channel assignment, is there any way to correct this? Or perhaps I'm making some obvious mistake when I set up the zone channel assignments?

Thanks

[akardam]

Can't seem to duplicate what you're talking about. So, what you're saying is that you have a repeated channel, with say a RX (repeater output) PL of 156.7 and a TX (repeater input) PL of 173.8, and that when you check the TA Direct/Talkaround checkbox, the TA PL Frequency still shows 173.8?

[mab]

Yep, exactly. This is with CPS vers 14.00, on an XTS2500 running v12.

So it's just me? Weird.

[akardam]

Do you have Conventional > Direct Frequency Enable (global setting) enabled?

[mab]

Hmmm. That setting is unchecked and grayed out in the CPS.

Is this enabled only with a some flashport option?

Thanks

[jmr061]

Just to clarify you are saying that when your go to Feature->Conventional->Conventional Configuration->General Tab(other tab is smart ptt) that the Direct Frequency check box is greyed out?

I am getting to it from the top menu bar btw (hence starting with Feature).

Jason

[mab]

Right, exactly. That's the in the "general" menu, between the "monitor type" picklist and the "HUB Defeats PL" checkbox, but it's grayed out and uncheckable.

And I just checked a some codeplugs of two of my other radios, an XTS5000 and an XTS4000. It's grayed out in those, too. I'm running Astro25 Portable CPS 14.01.00 (the latest).

[Tom in D.C.]

I found the same exact thing, and the grayed out "Direct Frequency" box does not change status according to whether or not you have the talkaround box checked in the zone/channel listing.

Peter, what's the answer?

Regards,

[akardam]

Direct Frequency Enabled is greyed out because you have FPP in your flashcode.

Since this is the case, you'll never be able to program a custom direct frequency or PL/DPL/NAC per channel, by design it'll always use the RX frequency and PL/DPL/NAC when you go direct.

No idea why you're saying it's using the repeater input PL as opposed to the repeater output PL unless you're confusing the terms. Have you actually programmed your radio with such a channel, and verified that it is in fact working OK on repeat but not as expected on direct?

[mab]

Hmm, Akardam, that's not quite the behavior I'm seeing.

My channels are programmed in non-FPP zones on an FPP radio. When I got to direct mode on these channels, the radio transmits (as we'd expect) on the Rx frequency, but uses (contrary to expectations) the repeater input PL. This is reflected in the zone channel assignment screens, too -- for each such channel, the TA frequency is the same as the RX frequency, but the TA PL is the same as the TX PL.

However, I CAN fix this by manually editing the zone channel assignments to change the TA PL for each channel, and the codeplug loads and saves without a problem. But I was hoping there's an alternative to manually editing this on each and every channel, since the default behavior I'm seeing is obviously broken. I can't imagine a scenario where you'd ever want the TX PL used for talkaround on a split PL system-- how would anyone ever hear anyone on direct?

Just to clarify, are you unable to replicate this? If you create a repeater channel the CPS fills in the both RX frequency AND the RX PL in the TA frequency and PL fields by default?

Thanks!

[akardam]

Well, I'm not seeing that behavior, and can't duplicate it in CPS 14, with any FPP codeplug I've got on hand.

If your Direct Frequency Enable global checkbox is greyed out (and we're presuming it's not currently checked), then you shouldn't be able to edit the TA frequency, squelch type, PL freq, DPL code, or NAC, period. That you're saying you can is strange, to say the least.

You can drop me an e-mail if you want and I'll take a look at the codeplug, but unless it's something with the codeplug or somehow your CPS has gone wacky, you may just have to rely on the workaround you're describing.

[Tom in D.C.]

I opened a codeplug for an XTS5K model 1 and, sure enough, the direct frequency box is available and there is a pretty good explanation about it in the help file.

Learn something new every day, especially with Motorola CPS.

[RKG]

For what it may add to this discussion, none of our XTS2500s or 5000s display the reported behavior. In this neck of the woods, "split tones" or "split formats" are common for police and fire channels, and in all cases the direct button picks up the Rx freq, Rx signaling type, and Rx singaling value for Tx.

However, none of our radios are FPP capable; I suspect (as others have suggested) that FPP is the source of the reported problem.

[motorolo]

Direct Frequency Enabled is greyed out because you have FPP in your flashcode.

Not to muddy the waters any further here, but I have an XTS2500 with Q52 Q53 FPP in the flashcode, and my Direct Frequency checkbox is greyed-out, but also checked, strangely. I am able to freely change PL on my Direct/Talkaround assignments without any issues. Radio is R12, if that helps. Sounds like FPP presence alone isn't enough to disable Direct Frequency capability... very weird.

[akardam]

Not to muddy the waters any further here, but I have an XTS2500 with Q52 Q53 FPP in the flashcode, and my Direct Frequency checkbox is greyed-out, but also checked, strangely. I am able to freely change PL on my Direct/Talkaround assignments without any issues. Radio is R12, if that helps. Sounds like FPP presence alone isn't enough to disable Direct Frequency capability... very weird.

The only thing I can think of is a situation wherein the radio's codeplug had DFE checked, and then was upgraded to add Q52/Q53. Can you actually enable FPP on the first zone (and any subsiquent zone)?

[rc50won]

If you think this feature is wacky with XTS you should see it on APX. On APX with FPP the Direct PL/NAC+ TX/RX frequencies are grayed out because they are locked to the repeater output frequency. You get around this by disabling FPP and globally enabling the Talkaround/Direct feature. You can then program anything for the TalkAround. Once done, you disable the global TalkAround feature and re-enable FPP. Everything gets locked again but to the frequencies you entered.

Marshall

[motorolo]

Not to muddy the waters any further here, but I have an XTS2500 with Q52 Q53 FPP in the flashcode, and my Direct Frequency checkbox is greyed-out, but also checked, strangely. I am able to freely change PL on my Direct/Talkaround assignments without any issues. Radio is R12, if that helps. Sounds like FPP presence alone isn't enough to disable Direct Frequency capability... very weird.

The only thing I can think of is a situation wherein the radio's codeplug had DFE checked, and then was upgraded to add Q52/Q53. Can you actually enable FPP on the first zone (and any subsiquent zone)?

It appears that I can. All three of the zones I currently have programmed are FPP enabled, and the "FPP enable" checkbox is not greyed out on any of them. Not that I'm complaining...