XTS5000 RSSI & SITE ALIAS

[newtomotorola]

Hi all, is there a way to display the RSSI and Site Alias of a P25 system whilst scanning a talkgroup.

I have site aliasing ticked in "Trunking System" and the correct site aliasing number, and site aliasing txt in the "Astro 25 Alias" tab

[samsharpe]

It is possible but there are a lot of other things to be considered.

1) Do you have a site select/search button defined, if so what does it currently display?
2) Did you put the site in the alias as its HEX number (not DEC) and which alias list did you put it in. There are two lists depending on the system.
3) P25 is a loose term when speaking "Motorolan". Do you mean an ASTRO25 system or a TypeII. You can set an ASTRO25/OMNILINK as a TypeII and lock to a specific site in CPS in which case there is no RSSI reading. Which are you using?
4) Keep in mind that if you're scanning the RSSI is not updating. The radio is updating its relative BER threshold based on the VOCODER's decode value, but as far as I know the RSSI is only derived from the control channel (when the radio is not scanning), so scanning and asking for a RSSI value may yield a meaningless number if your radio is in a dynaminc evironment (moving) and is scanning more than listening to the control channel.

[newtomotorola]

It is possible but there are a lot of other things to be considered.

1) Do you have a site select/search button defined, if so what does it currently display?
2) Did you put the site in the alias as its HEX number (not DEC) and which alias list did you put it in. There are two lists depending on the system.
3) P25 is a loose term when speaking "Motorolan". Do you mean an ASTRO25 system or a TypeII. You can set an ASTRO25/OMNILINK as a TypeII and lock to a specific site in CPS in which case there is no RSSI reading. Which are you using?
4) Keep in mind that if you're scanning the RSSI is not updating. The radio is updating its relative BER threshold based on the VOCODER's decode value, but as far as I know the RSSI is only derived from the control channel (when the radio is not scanning), so scanning and asking for a RSSI value may yield a meaningless number if your radio is in a dynaminc evironment (moving) and is scanning more than listening to the control channel.

Thank you for such a detailed responce

1) No site display button set, currently for trunking the buttons are set as follows "Top Button" keypad lock, side buttons upper "unprogrammed", middle "light", bottom "unprogrammed".

2) Site alaias is in hex

3) Sites are astro 25 p25 9600bps CC, omnilink is enabled, it is a multi site network

4) i have a preferred site enabled in my "Trunking System" site id is in hex, this is the clesest site to my area.


Basically all i get is when i select the zone that i want to listen to, and by zone i mean talkgroup as it is programmed, all i see on the display is the id of the transmitting radio.

[newtomotorola]

Just an update, i have programmed the side buttons as follows

Trunking
1 (upper / no-dot): Site Lock/Unlock
2 (middle / 1-dot): Light
3 (bottom / no-dot): Site Disp/Srch

when the radio is locked on a transmitting channel, pressing button 1 or 3 do nothing.

Thanks

[samsharpe]

The site button (your #3) should show you at least the site ID followed by the RSSI value. If you have tones enabled, does the pressing your #3 button yield a "low" tone or a "high" tone? This 5000 is a model II or III correct?

Try this, take the radio out of scan and press your button #3. What does it show? If you press and hold button #3 does it say "scanning"?

Also, I'm trying to interpret what you said last, "when the radio is locked on a transmitting channel, pressing button 1 or 3 do nothing." Do you mean when the radio is scanning and stops on an active talkgroup, pressing button #3 on the radio is not displaying the site info?

By chance do you have multisite scan enabled for your scan list? Is it possible that you have a conventional channel in the scan list? How many different systems are loaded in the radio?

[newtomotorola]

The site button (your #3) should show you at least the site ID followed by the RSSI value. If you have tones enabled, does the pressing your #3 button yield a "low" tone or a "high" tone? This 5000 is a model II or III correct?

Try this, take the radio out of scan and press your button #3. What does it show? If you press and hold button #3 does it say "scanning"?

Also, I'm trying to interpret what you said last, "when the radio is locked on a transmitting channel, pressing button 1 or 3 do nothing." Do you mean when the radio is scanning and stops on an active talkgroup, pressing button #3 on the radio is not displaying the site info?

By chance do you have multisite scan enabled for your scan list? Is it possible that you have a conventional channel in the scan list? How many different systems are loaded in the radio?

Tones disabled, but when i enable them i get a high tone from button 3 and a low tone from button 1, this is when its landed on a talkgroup, unit is a model III

i prefer not to land on the channel for fear of affiliation, but i have with a dummy attached and button 1 will say "Site Unlcked" and button 3 will say "Scanning Site"

yes correct i mean an active talkgroup.

i do not have multisite scan in my scanlists "mabie ill give it a go" i have 16 conventional channels programmed in each zone and all my trunked personalities after channel 16.

Thanks for your help

[samsharpe]

i prefer not to land on the channel for fear of affiliation, but i have with a dummy attached and button 1 will say "Site Unlcked" and button 3 will say "Scanning Site"

Why?

If you don't affiliate then that's the source of your problem.

[Pj]

If you disable site alias in the system, it will show the proper ID. The site alias option is if you want to desinate a certain site with a custom name. Either way on a large system, your going to have more than nine sites that it lets you customize..

[newtomotorola]

i prefer not to land on the channel for fear of affiliation, but i have with a dummy attached and button 1 will say "Site Unlcked" and button 3 will say "Scanning Site"

Why?

If you don't affiliate then that's the source of your problem.

Ok i thought so

[Pj]

Are you scanning this system conventionally?

Is this a VHF, UHF, 700 or 800 system?

[newtomotorola]

No, i have all the control channels programmed in, and scan particular talkgroups.

[akardam]

If you're an authorized user on the system, you might consult with the system administrator to see if they can shed any light on the issues you are having.

[Pj]

No, i have all the control channels programmed in, and scan particular talkgroups.

What band?

Also, what is the revision of firmware that you are using?

[newtomotorola]

UHF low, host 12 / dsp 12

[Pj]

I will bet you that your radio actually is actually talking to the system.

The reason?

On ASTRO25 systems, the radio by design will NOT unmute for radio traffic unless you are:

Scanning the trunked channels conventionally
or
Affiaiting to the system

By changing the TX OBT channels to something other than the correct ones, it will not unmute the audio. It will show RSSI/Site ID, and the antenna display, but it will sit and do nothing else all day long but attempt affiations.

Now, SmartZone, SZ Omnilink, or Type II, this would be possible, but not an actual 9600 system.

If you found a reliable way around this, then I think it would be something that many members of the board would like to know.

[immelmen28]

I will bet you that your radio actually is actually talking to the system.

The reason?

On ASTRO25 systems, the radio by design will NOT unmute for radio traffic unless you are:

Scanning the trunked channels conventionally
or
Affiaiting to the system

By changing the TX OBT channels to something other than the correct ones, it will not unmute the audio. It will show RSSI/Site ID, and the antenna display, but it will sit and do nothing else all day long but attempt affiations.

Now, SmartZone, SZ Omnilink, or Type II, this would be possible, but not an actual 9600 system.

If you found a reliable way around this, then I think it would be something that many members of the board would like to know.

Sorry if I am misunderstanding, it sounds like the OP is using the "hidden talkgroups" method. I thought this "scan the TRS from conventional personalities" trick was tested and shown to work for 9600 systems with no affiliation but still passing audio. Even OBT could be done this way by setting up the TRS correctly, enable TX inhibit, then strap an automatic scan list with the talkgroup to a conventional channel from which you scan. the trick to passing the audio from the 9600 TG with no affiliation was the conventional channel you scan from must be set for non-astro receve.

That was what I understood when reading the 7th post from Mike M on this thread http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=81662

[newtomotorola]

That is exactly what i am doing,, i would just like to display the site that i am listening to if it was possible, its a huge system 60+ sites and all the CC's are programed in with alias, and in the TX field just a default frequency, I get the unit id on the display, i must say it works well and i am able to roam between sites.

[Pj]

I've attempted this on a system (with the admin's permission) and the result was what was posted above.

If Motorola is to be believed (and so far the radios I am playing with are adhearing to what Motorola says) is that affialition is required in order to unmute audio on 9600 systems. The radio will decode all the CC information, but will not unmute.

I have tried the Mike method, and so far no go over here, unless something has changed in the new(er) trunking software (only a guess). This system has been up for about six months and is a OBT system.

If there is any other way, I am game for it!

[immelmen28]

I've attempted this on a system (with the admin's permission) and the result was what was posted above.

If Motorola is to be believed (and so far the radios I am playing with are adhearing to what Motorola says) is that affialition is required in order to unmute audio on 9600 systems. The radio will decode all the CC information, but will not unmute.

I have tried the Mike method, and so far no go over here, unless something has changed in the new(er) trunking software (only a guess). This system has been up for about six months and is a OBT system.

If there is any other way, I am game for it!

Ok, we ran a test on this today...here are the results we got.

Radio: 800 Mhz Astro Spectra Plus
580008-000480-2
Host/DSP: R04.00.00/04.00.00 (I know its very old)
programed with Astro25 CPS R12.00.00

Radio has a legit ID and is an authorized user on a 800 Mhz 9600 system, no changes made to the TRS and TX inhibit was not used. all done properly by system manager.

A Talkgroup scan list was made with no priority and Tx voice set to "selected channel". the only personality in the scan list being the most active TG on the 9600 system.

A conventional personality was created and set for Non-Astro voice rx, and used with a random conventional simplex freq that has no traffic. The new scan list was selected to the new conventional personality(automatic scan was not enabled). All other parameters were factory default.

With the conventional simplex channel selected and Scan then turned on, the radio trunked the 9600 talk group and passed the audio correctly and consistently but did NOT affiliate with the system. We tried the mode selection sequence in a few different orders, and all had the same result: passing the audio with no affiliation.

Don't know if OBT vs 800 makes a difference or maybe the old firmware... We are going to try the same test next week with a XTS5000 running later firmware.

[Pj]

Hmmm, cool. I'll try it again sometime today. Its very possible I missed a step...but would be cool.

[immelmen28]

An 8 month old thread, but I have a relevant update for PJ or anyone else interested in the issue and I have not seen it settled elsewhere, so...

We finally had the opportunity to conduct a supervised test on an OBT 9600 system in the same manner we did the 800 system. The radios were programed in exactly the same manner as the radio in my post of 12 Feb above.

The radio specs:

XTL5000
HOST 12.00.03
DSP 12.00.40
580008-000480-2

The TRS was a multi-site 9600 UHF system with control channels/frequencies in the 380 and 400 Mhz range. Sitting on the conventional channel with the talk group in the scan list the XTL trunked the system and passed the audio beautifully with no RF attempting to leave the radio and no affiliation with the system whatsoever. System search time was set to the max, 240, and the radio was put side by side with a portable that was selected directly to the TG and affiliated with the system...the two carried the talk group identically including ID display. The un-affiliated radio did not miss any part of any conversation at any time on the TG.

I have seen this tested successfully now on both Astro and Astro25 portables and mobiles on 800 and OBT P25 TRS. It looks like Moto's claim of affiliation required can finally be put to bed.

[007]

deletia

All I want to know is which site I'm affiliating to as I roam through through the system. Is it as easy as enabling the site search/display button? I have it enabled and it says SITE XX when I push it, so I'm assuming when I'm in range of the sites it will display it, correct?

*edit*

Got in range of the system and it is that easy...never mind.