MODAT on ASTRO Saber

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 12:37 am

008 asked about MODAT on ASTRO Sabers.

I went through Motorola Sales not too long ago with an offical sales request for MODAT on XTS 3000 and ASTRO Saber.

Motorola responded that it is not available, even as an SP. They said that LAPD had this option on their ASTRO Saber SIs. Further, I was on a conference call with the SP Portable group in Boyton Beach, FL and an SP group out of Schaumberg. They firmly said NO, and they also mentioned something about selling the MODAT rights to a third party, and I'd have to speak with LAPD, plus some third party to even get the rights to do this, let alone other issues.

The only way folks can do MODAT over ASTRO P radio (ASTRO Saber or XTS) is via a hacked code plug.

Also, I asked Motorola as to why MODAT is in the RSS manual and shows up on various RSS screens. They explained that this was included as part of the LAPD radios, but the screens are not active for anyone else.

I pursued this issue big time with Motorola, and I was consistently told NO by Motorola, even if I was willing to pay big SP bucks.

Larry

Post by Pj » Wed Nov 27, 2002 5:09 am

Actually, I was in a position to get MODAT about a year ago for mine. I spoke with an actual M guy. He told me the only way to get it was to order it with VSELP. Apparently MODAT is a sub-option of VSELP, and would have to be ordered at the same time. If you get one (MODAT), you get the other.

Of course, this is no good if you have an IMBE radio. If you had an "Astro Ready" radio, then no harm. It took him a bit to track it down, but he told me that he could order it for me, but the radio would become VSLEP.

BTW: The price tag would have been around $650 I believe. A tad expensive for some beeps and loss of CAI.

As an after thought, I am not sure where they are getting the notion that they would be selling MODAT to a third party, since M has had MODAT for many years, and LAPD was not the only department that used it (Denver comes to mind).

Now, if the LAPD PAID for the software engineering for it to be incorporated into the Astro line, I can see that point. Theorictally, you many be able to get a letter from LAPD or the CofLA to use it, and may be required to pay a fee for it.

However, I can't see how MODAT would take much in the software dept to warrant extraordnary cost.

mhaynes41 · Post by **mhaynes41** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:28 am

Yep you are right the city of Denver CO had used modat from the mid 60's the last radios they used it in was the mt 500 that was a fat front to back radio with the modat stuff in the back. So Motorola is full of it. I live in LA in the mid 70's and at that time they did not use modat.

My two cents worth. javascript:emoticon(':roll:')

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:15 am

Pj, you are partially correct. Yes, Motorola told me that MODAT was only available in SPed ASTRO P VSELP radios (at the time), but even with VSELP, the answer was No from Motorola. The point was that the MODAT option was only available as an SP on ASTRO P radios with the VSELP vocoder with the 1 Meg VOCON. At the same time, they were no longer supporting it as a current SP option, not at any price, and not even if you had VSELP on an ASTRO P radio. I have it in writing, not as a verbal conversation.

I certainly did nott mean to inply that only LAPD had MODAT. There are MANY PDs besides LAPD and Denver PD that had/even still have MODAT!

Anyways, I fromally requested an SP, in writing, from Motorola for MODAT on ASTRO P radios. The written, formal answer is No.

If you have a written Motorola response to the contrary, I'd sure like to see it. Could you email it to me privately?

BTW, as to the Third Party and MODAT---This was told to me on the conference call with Motorola. I had no interest in following up on details in this regard since they had told me No to MODAT. In any event, the SP Engineers had mentioned this as a further complicating reason why they were no longer making MODAT available, even as an SP.

If Pj, or anyone else on the Batboard, has an SP quote from Motorola for MODAT on an ASTRO P radio (with VSELP), could you please let me know?

Thanks,

Larry

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:36 pm

I was quoted over the phone $350 for modat operation on an XTS radio.

It was never ordered, however, I wanted to see what they would charge rfor it. Spoke to a nation rep, p/s division. Not sure what his official title was...

Guess the point is moot now however....

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:48 pm

CHEFA2001, I guarantee you that if you did manage to somehow order it, your STIC-1 wouldn't have made it through the initial, front-end factory review since MODAT is NOT available on an XTS, even as an SP. Been there, done that, and Motorola does not have MODAT on XTS. Only if you have a hacked plug.

Larry

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 4:51 pm

OK, could be, only quoting on what I was told by him.

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 5:08 pm

This stuff is crazy, especially for an astro newbie.
The one I have is IMBE and has modat. What's the deal? Are you guys saying that the two aren't compatible or they just didn't and won't offer the two together as a flash. I'm confused.
Either way it's not a big deal to me I was just curious.

mancow

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 5:33 pm

Mancow, if what you say is correct, it would only be possible if you have a hacked code plug. If you ever need to send it in to The M Depot, you're screwed, especially if it locks up, and you can't load a clean plug. Remember that Murphy's Law ALWAYS applies! In this case, it means that you will experience a complete lock-up when you have a hacked plug. In that case, you then own an expensive paperweight!

Larry

XDCLabs.COM · Post by **XDCLabs.COM** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 5:35 pm

The reason they don't have MODAT on the XTS series is because they don't want to support it. The same story with DES on Astros. They want to have a manageable feature set.

MODAT is an analog feature. So it has nothing to do with digital (VSELP or IMBE). It only works on an analog channel.

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 6:03 pm

That's typical

mancow

Post by Pj » Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:39 pm

I spoke to our public saftey M rep that handles the area. Not the MSS sales guy, but the real M guy. He told me that it was listed in the normal pricebook for Astro options.

He said he was not able to look up Q351 directly, but found it under the a VSLEP option. Apparently there are several "packages" that you can (could) order.

I will try to get ahold of him next week and see where I can go with it. I have no use for it right now, but hey, if its cheep, why not.

What is an Astro P?

XDCLabs.COM · Post by **XDCLabs.COM** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 9:42 pm

Astro P = Astro Portable

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:05 pm

Which = Astro expensive

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Wed Nov 27, 2002 10:45 pm

ASTROMODAT wrote:
Motorola responded that it is not available, even as an SP.

The only way folks can do MODAT over ASTRO P radio (ASTRO Saber or XTS) is via a hacked code plug.

Larry

Ok but what if you have a radio with factory tags....read and written with normal unhacked RSS/CPS that has fully functioning normally operating MODAT on it? I don't see how they can deny that when radios are out there unhacked that have it? Is this going to turn into reverse marketing ("You can't have that but we can sell you this instead") to push something else? It's 0148 in the morning here so maybe I'm missing something but it sounds like the left side of the brain is not communicating to the right side of the brain at Motorola. I'm not trying to be an ass I'm just trying to understand how one rep can say 'no way' but another can say 'sure why not' without someone else catching it and saying....."Sit tight and I'll show you how it is supposed to work" I think I just need to go to sleep.....

Post by Pj » Wed Nov 27, 2002 11:25 pm

I have ran into this as well. One person would say yes, one no. Its all about finding the right guy to talk to. If you get high enough in the food chain, you can really get anything you want. I have ordered a few SP products that were cancelled, and received some support on them. I have also been able to get a radio reflashed back to the original flashcode after someone blew a differenent feature set in there. This was most likely the exception to the rule, but it depends on who you deal with.

It also helps to have established accounts, and to be one of the authorized persons on that account.

At times, I have had 3 people on a conference call between FL, IL and who knows where at their expense. That was pretty cool.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:05 am

Thus far, I don't know of anyone on the Batboard claiming to have an ASTRO P with MODAT with factory tags. To date, the few people claiming to have this feature have admitted that they 1) have a hacked code plug or 2) have Lab software. Of course, in both cases this would make these radios not able to be sent in to Motorola for repair, unless they could re-load the plugs with legitimate software (often times impossible if its locked up).

The fact remains that MODAT is not available on a legitimate ASTRO P radio.

I'd love to hear from someone out there that has a legitimate ASTRO P with MODAT.

Larry

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:27 am

Well then I'll be the first. I have an unhacked Astro Saber 3 with MODAT. I'll give you my flashcode to prove it...

591001 - 4F1E00 - 8

Q806/G806 IMBE / APCO-25 Digital Operation
H14/G114 Digital ID Display
H101,G101,H169 Conventional Repeater Access (Analog Operation Only)(MDC1200 or Singletone)
H868/W298 Conventional Multikey and Analog Conventional MDC OTAR
G170/H43 Remote Monitor and Radio Trace
H35/G48 Conventional Operation
H07 Multikey software encryption
Q354 OTACS (Over The Air Channel Steering)
Q353 OTACR ((Over The Air Channel Reassignment)
Q352 Soft ID
Q351 MODAT Operation
W947/Q947 APCO Packet Data
Q387 Conventional voting scan
Q173/G173 Smartzone OmniLink Operation
G182 Enhanced Radio Call Protocol

Said Flashcode is printed on the Factory Tag.....

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:34 am

Jay, when did you buy your radios from Motorola? What freq band?

Would you mind if I forward this data to Motorola and ask them to get back to me? I'd like to clip your email to my sales order inquiry, if that's O.K. Could I also include your serial number?

This info would give me some extremely powerful help with Motorola so I can get to the bottom of this.

Thanks!

Larry

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 12:43 am

Check your PMs I will have the rest of the info when I get home from work at about 0830 today.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 1:17 am

Jay, the serial number is supposed to be on the back of the radio. Also, could you give me the name of the guy you bought the radio from?

The only way Motorola will respond is if I can give them the serial number, and the name of the original purchaser. Then, they will look up the original factory code plug data on their factory records. I had assumed (incorrectly) that you were the original purchaser. Every time I've spoken with Motorola, they always ask for the name of the original purchaser/company (me!) AND serial number(s) of the radio(s). Without this, they only have lists of features on a piece of paper and they really won't entertain a very serious conversation..

Do you know how many others owned the radio before the guy that you bought it from?

On the surface of it, this sounds like a hacked plug, based on what Motorola told me. I can't believe that many folks at Motorola would either be ill-informed, or misleading. In my 30 yeasrs of experience with Motorola, I have found them to be honest in these respects.

The only way I would want to make a trip out to Schaumberg or Boyton Beach is if I had the info I would need: Serial Number and original purchaser's name.

This would be really helpful.

If we could actually get this feature, it would save us a ton of money in avoiding having to replace our MODAT infrastructure. It would definately be worth the round trip airfare to chat with Motorola.

Thanks!

Larry

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 8:15 am

well everyones favorite ebay autioner

gives you the following

DSP N08.02.02 Q806/G806 IMBE / APCO-25 Digital Operation H14/G114 Digital ID Display H101,G101,H169 Conventional Repeater Access (Analog Operation Only)(MDC1200 or Single tone) H868/W298 Conventional Multi key and Analog Conventional MDC OTAR G170/H43 Remote Monitor and Radio Trace H38/G51 Smartzone Operation H07 Multi key software encryption Q354 OTACS (Over The Air Channel Steering) Q353 OTACR ((Over The Air Channel Reassignment) Q352 Soft ID Q351 MODAT Operation W947/Q947 APCO Packet Data Q387 Conventional voting scan Q173/G173 Smartzone OmniLink Operation G182 Enhanced Radio Call Protocol

he says modat on a imbe radio

Astro25 · Post by **Astro25** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 8:50 am

Whoooo Cares! I think we all know that by now dude.

Post by **xmo** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 9:36 am

I find it interesting that one flashcode: 591008 - 4F1E00 - 9 , seems to be in many of these radios that are supposedly hacked. It seems to me that if there were an available method to hack the flashcode, we would be seeing all sorts of combinations as suited to the hacker's needs.

This flashcode has been previously referred to as the "Chicago flashcode". I never have much luck with the search function on this board so I was not able to find the original post where someone said where that code originally came from. It could have come out of a Motorola test radio, some specific customer, or whatever.

I have never done it, but I assume that if you replace a defective controller board in an XTS/Astro Saber with a blank one, you load in an archive file and your radio has all the features it was originally flashed with. If folks like Nick are building radios from parts, they would have to initialize the controller with something - probably the best archive file they can find (i.e. one with the most features), hence the proliferation of this flashcode. That also might mean that all of these radios have the same serial number.

Either that, or they have a new enough version of LAB to initialize a radio with whatever features they want and this flashcode seems like what everybody wants. I am kind of doubting that however, because the software encryption feature does not work so why put it in there if you could create any flashcode you wanted?

The flashcode that JAYMZ5329 posted, 591001-4F1E00-8 has the same features except that it has H35 conventional operation instead of H38 Smartzone. Both codes contain feature combinations Motorola would not sell beacuse they don't work (I.e. the software encryption). This makes it likely that the tags on his radio are "field created"

I bought an XTS with this flashcode at Dayton. I have the guy's card somewhere - I don't it was Nick, but maybe this guy gets his radios from Nick or puts them together the same way - means nothing to me - the radio works great & I didn't have 5 grand for a new one.

Later, I had to send it in for service. I worried what the Depot would do because of the flashcode. They just fixed it. They updated the firmware and sent it back still with the same flash. No questions - no hassle. One thing they did was replace the casting, so now it has a new S.N. tag - one with back letters on white - when it went in it had green letters on black. If I didn't know that I would probably call it fake since it looks so different.

The MODAT feature does work on this radio and so does the IMBE.

If anybody is curious about the possibility that these radios all have the same serial number - we could exchange serial numbers by P.M.

BTW - this radio is a UHF 403-470.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Thu Nov 28, 2002 6:38 pm

I made an error earlier....goes to show what happens when you are half asleep. I made an error on the Flashcode:

591108-4F1E00-8

Which includes:
Q806/G806 IMBE / APCO-25 Digital Operation
H14/G114 Digital ID Display
H101,G101,H169 Conventional Repeater Access (Analog Operation Only)(MDC1200 or Singletone)
H868/W298 Conventional Multikey and Analog Conventional MDC OTAR
G170/H43 Remote Monitor and Radio Trace
H39 Selective Radio Inhibit
H38/G51 Smartzone Operation
H07 Multikey software encryption
Q354 OTACS (Over The Air Channel Steering)
Q353 OTACR ((Over The Air Channel Reassignment)
Q352 Soft ID
Q351 MODAT Operation
W947/Q947 APCO Packet Data
Q387 Conventional voting scan
Q173/G173 Smartzone OmniLink Operation
G182 Enhanced Radio Call Protocol

Not that it makes that much of a difference but when I wrote it all out and put the features on here I cold have sworn that is was a Smartnet capable radio. It's an older radio but legit none the less....1997 I beleive.

Post by **xmo** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:55 am

"The radio has the chicago flashcode, but I want to dumb it down if I can."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I agree with Shaun, it would be nice if we could 'unflash' some useless/incompatible features from these units...

Also, Shaun - any chance you could pass that serial number modification process on to Batwing for inclusion on the Batlabs site? I'm sure there are many who would appreciate your efforts there.

XDCLabs.COM · Post by **XDCLabs.COM** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:13 am

xmo wrote:Also, Shaun - any chance you could pass that serial number modification process on to Batwing for inclusion on the Batlabs site? I'm sure there are many who would appreciate your efforts there.

That would be a great way to "fix" stolen radios! Sorry, for being sarcastic, but I am totally against it. I'm no expert, but common-sense tells me that this could get batlabs into legal trouble.

Post by **xmo** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 1:56 pm

"...but I am totally against it..."
---------------------------------------

And probably totally against guns too?

A tool is what you make it do. A screwdriver in your mechanic's hand fixes your car. In a bad guy's hand it pries open the window to your house. So we should outlaw screwdrivers?

CD ROM drives back up your computer and archive your data - or they rip off Bill Gates (or Garth Brooks) - it's up to the user. We should outlaw them too - right?

A tool to change serial numbers lets you mix and match parts from broken/ damaged donor radios, NOS Motorola parts, etc. to repair or rebuild your unit. The fact that somebody MIGHT do something disreputable with it does not discredit the validity of the tool.

We have tools to change the serial number on Maxtracs. We have tools to change the serial number on MTX8000/9000. We have tools to change the serial number on Spectras. We have tools ... well you get the idea.

So we shouldn't have a tool to change the serial number on Astros?

otter9309 · Post by **otter9309** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 2:32 pm

Has anyone seen H99 as an option? It is QC-II from what I hear. I need to flash my ASIII if possible.

Steve

XDCLabs.COM · Post by **XDCLabs.COM** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 8:37 pm

xmo wrote:And probably totally against guns too?

Nope. I'm armed to the teeth, and I can never have enough.

I don't mean to ruffle any feathers, but I look at it this way. Changing serial numbers in radios can easily make a stolen radio "unstolen" because that is the only way to track it. If this becomes public knowledge then that could be an issue. I'm not saying you would do it. Heck I know how to change it too, and it comes in real handy when cannabalizing radios. But in the wrong hands, it could be a problem. Right?

Post by **xmo** » Tue Dec 03, 2002 9:37 pm

"But in the wrong hands, it could be a problem. Right?"
---------------------------------------------------------------

True enough.

The hard thing here is the wide range of people who get information from Batlabs. Most everybody here means well - they are just trying to fix their own problems or experimenting with radios for the sheer fun of it - but there are those who might use things in the wrong way..

Maybe some of these tricks are best kept sort of private...

BrentLA · Post by **BrentLA** » Thu Dec 05, 2002 12:04 am

It's strange that they give you problems getting MODAT "because LAPD had MODAT". True they did... but they haven't used it for over a year now

MODAT on ASTRO Saber

MODAT on ASTRO Saber

modat

modat

modet and larry

Re: MODAT on ASTRO Saber

Astro Flashcode