The Official Dayton Thread [2003]

Post by **alex** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 10:41 am

Batboard Dayton Frequency Plan 2003

BOLD on a certain frequency listing means that it's the PRIMARY frequencies. Note that the MURS channels are narrow band 11.25 khz.

Name Frequency Service PL

Green 151.880 MURS D143
Blue 151.940 MURS D143
Red 154.470 MURS D143

-----------------------------------------------------
You need a license to use the following
-----------------------------------------------------

Name Frequency Service PL

xband 146.5750 Analog Ham ___ D143 } Crossband
xband 446.8250 Analog Ham ___ D143 } DPL 143!

Astro 146.5650 Astro Ham IMBE CAI Digital CSQ
Astro 446.9250 Astro Ham IMBE CAI Digital CSQ

alpha 462.6625 GMRS DPL 072
Bravo 462.6875 GMRS DPL 411
Charlie 462.7125 GMRS DPL 143
Delta 462.5500 GMRS DPL 627
Echo 462.7000 GMRS DPL 331

-----------------------------------------------------

A few notes:

1) Crossband will be setup as soon as we get a chance to assemble it. Don't expect it to be setup at 0700 on Friday. It's just not going to happen. ( We want to shop first! )

2) When Crossband isn't up, then monitor those channels, and if you have 2 radios, be kinda and relay if someone is looking for someone else.

3) Please do not talk on channels your not authorized to. Getting your ham license is cake. 6.50 for the test. Go practice on http://www.hamtest.com, and read up on the rules. It's well worth it. See #4 about GMRS.

4) Getting you GMRS license requires such minimal effort that it's almost worth doing anyway. I had my call w/in 8 hours of registering, and it was $75 for 5 years.

5) Keep it legal. For one, this is an open forum that anyone can browse to and get these frequencies. Please make sure you take some time and referesh your memory about your operating practices, and please adhear to them. There is rumored to be people wandering about representing a number of agencies that could easily get you in trouble. Be kind, curteous and thoughtfull of this. Say a few words on one channel your not supposed to isn't worth $10,000 and or a few months/years (whatever the penalty may be). Listen to where some of us are and try and meet up.

6) Have fun. Use your board name in conjunction of your call sign for the respective services that require it so we know who you are.

7 )new Astro info: Simply use the default settings for the astro personalities, and turn talkgroups off. 293 is the default system as it is, maybe even use Digital CSQ just to keep things compatable.

8 )new We had a pretty good group of people last year who were able to be others eye's and ears. Key up and say hi. It's tough to break the ice, but we all have known eachother for a while here.... Key up and let people know what your looking for. I know a LOT of people from the board are going this year, so hopefully I'll get the chance to say hi.

9 ) The Crossband repeater will be supporting IMBE, VSELP, and Analog communications. Set your radios for mixed mode so you can hear in both digital and analog. I supspect most poeple will be using IMBE radios anyway.

Post by **batdude** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 5:20 pm

yes, already looking at airfare... looks like $191 again for me.

flying in thursday at noon and departing saturday early evening.

based on what i noticed last year, astro voice is going to be the way to go to keep all the intermod and scanner duuuddezzz away.

doug

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 6:21 pm

Well for frequency plan can we just stick to what we had last year? Just for nothing else but it worked nicely then and not for nothing with the thread from last year and the "Batlabs Frequency" threads the issue has been beaten to death several times over only to come back right where we started.

This is the info I had posted in the "official frequency" posts. It's quick easy simple direct and straightforward. If anyone wants to do something else go right ahead I'm always open to suggestion.

<<<<VHF MURS - 151.880 PL 94.8
UHF GMRS - 462.550 PL 94.8

2M HAM - 146.575 PL 94.8
70cm HAM - 446.825 PL 94.8

All compliments of last years Dayton radio Frequency Posts....only difference is the PL really....94.8 is easy for me to remember....>>>>>

Oh and count me in for this year......I have already submitted paperwork for a week of my vacation time that week....1 week down 4 to go.....

copcarguy · Post by **copcarguy** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 6:34 pm

Im there every year, Including next!!

kc8svs · Post by **kc8svs** » Tue Dec 10, 2002 7:54 pm

Count me in!

I'll have everything programmed to meet up with some of you people. That would be some fun conversation!

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:15 am

I plan to be there along witha buddy of mine. Now as to what nifty technology we can use well, lets start thinking.

Post by **alex** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 11:45 am

Anyone have a quantar they can spare for the weekend?

I agree with James - the frequency's we had last year worked fine.

The crossband channels were used for Hams, which GMRS was used for the GMRS folks.... MURS, if you had VHF - You had MURS.

I don't think we much need to plan on anything much more. Stick with the astro channels as planned.

Is there someone who has a spot at the flea market that is willing to put a HAM repeater up that will do cross band? I'm sure all of us can get enough parts together. I don't think Will will mind donating the module again for a weekend...

personally, i'll once again be walking around with two portables, one UHF and one VHF.

I think we should stick with DPL.. I'll double check the posts.

-Alex

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 12:56 pm

I think DPL is the way to go. Are we going to mix mode IMBE and anolog or stay with analog? I'm assuming we're just going to run analog. I plan this dayton to be my astro portable hunt, I need 3 of them!

My vehicle is equiped to crossband from UHF to VHF via VRS. Only problem is the VHF rig is a 110w so it would run down my battery.

Post by **alex** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 1:24 pm

I say we choose a secondary astro channel. That way no one has to listen to digital... can get annoying and fast.

Using the same channels as we did last year, I'll revise the frequency plan:

Name Frequency Service PL
-----------------------------------------------------
Green 151.880 MURS D143

xband 146.5750 Analog Ham ___ D143 } Crossband
xband 446.8250 Analog Ham ___ D143 } DPL 143!

AstroV 146.8750 Astro Ham IMBE CAI Digital CSQ
AstroU 446.9250 Astro Ham IMBE CAI Digital CSQ

alpha 462.6625 GMRS DPL 143

I think this is more than enough space for people to use. Everyone has their own channels as it is for their groups. None of the auxillery channels we had established never got used.

I will update the very top posting on the first page as things develop to keep things current as best I can. This way there is 1 place to look, and people won't have to weed through the several pages of discussion that this topic has the potential to become.

-Alex

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 2:55 pm

Why don't we pick a secondary MURS and GMRS Digital channels for those that aren't HAMS.

And just for curiousity why the DPL and not a regular PL?

Although I shouldn't complain.....no reprogramming needed here....

Oh and I am willing to donate my RICK and a UHF Maxtrac for the weekend if someone has a VHF maxtrac to hook up to it to do the crossband.

Haloncloud · Post by **Haloncloud** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 3:37 pm

It looks like there will be 6 of us from the Richmond, Va. Area coming for the first time. Does anybody have a lodging suggestion? I have been put incharge of lodging. Thanks

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:08 pm

I've got a VHF gm300 I might not be using as data radio by then. That would work.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 4:26 pm

Well all we need is a coupld of antennas and and a place to put it...then we are good to go. How say you Alex? Unless Bob and I get a top floor room close by I doubt we could leave it there at all.

Post by **alex** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 6:54 pm

For lodging, your going to want to be as close to Trootwood, OH as possible. You can find the address for the Hara Arena at http://www.hamvention.org.

Interms of DPL over PL, there's less chance of DPL causing a falsing... There have been issues with radios that I and others have had in the past where other people transmitting close to me have desensed the radio enough to get a false PL reading. Personally - I'm up for DPL.

I decided that the other frequencies didn't get used (EDIT: well, I guess I'd like to point out they really weren't used...) - so why include them this year. For the most part, they are used to contact eachother directly. Most people do come with groups of other folks - not really alone. These groups too have their own frequencies set aside. With that in mind, lets save some spectrum.

Just my $0.02.

I don't think we have a problem locating the radios, rick's, whatever - the problem is will there be someone who actually will have a space with enough power for us to run 2 maxtracs at ~5-10 watts for medium duty during the day.

Also - A note to the person who is going on an astro quest - Think about buying a sellers pass and going Wednesday or Thursday. Supposably there was a buy ban in effect for those days - however - it was again not strictly enforced. Just about everyone I talked to sold all their good high end stuff Wed/Thurs.

-Alex

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 9:04 pm

Can we pick an Astro Channel in the 450-512 range, as My radio is such a split and I'd love to have some "real" field testing with it and I don't want to hack my radio since I just got it back from depot with R housign replaced, re tuned and aligned to fac. sepcs for falt rate.

Also, for those whom are intersted, "Chicago" flashcode remained intact, although they upgraded the host/dsp and obviously the software revision to the newest.

All went well with that, and I did include a specific memo on Department letterhead that the flashcode was "our" property and was not to be changed, altered, or modified in any way, shape or form.

Ciao all~

Someone decide on a AStro freq.

wazzzzzzzzup · Post by **wazzzzzzzzup** » Wed Dec 11, 2002 11:47 pm

anybody want to do DES on 151.880? or another MURS freq (prefer 151.880) it uses csq so it would not open the squelch to annoy anyone else running pl or DPL

we can have a common key, myself and 3 other des radio buddies will be there if people are interested, i can post a key as time approaches.

definately keeps the scanner folk out of the loop.

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 7:25 am

I didn't want to do this but here is my suggestion:
(yes it is a JPG of an Excel File)

No sense in cutting everything down to nothing. Then we'll all be stepping all over each other using all the different modes of operation. Some things shouldn't really be used in certain modes but that would be up to you if you want to brave it. This will keep it open enough for everyone to get together and BS but still have alternate channels for the other clicks to have their own chat sessions.

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 12:40 pm

Hmm... you might want to re-check those MURS color frequencies...

MURS
-------
#1 - 151.820 - 11.25 KHz
#2 - 151.880 - 11.25 KHz
#3 - 151.940 - 11.25 KHz
#4 - 154.570 - 25 KHz - Blue Dot
#5 - 154.600 - 25 KHz - Green Dot

FYI, Red Dot (which is really 151.6250) is not part of MURS.

It is worth mentioning, that people with non-narrow capable equipment will be unable to use the three 151 MHz MURS frequencies, however, will still be able to use channels 4 and 5.

Just something to remember, since there is a lot of surplus wide equipment in our hands.

Also, don't forget, when programming, to kick down the power on the MURS channels to 2 watts or less to be legal.

2wayfreq · Post by **2wayfreq** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 2:28 pm

462.6625? isnt that FRS? I thought it would be .625

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 5:05 pm

Jonathan....for the record I used what Alex posted last year as reference for that. I honestly can never remember or could really care less what color is assigned to which MURS frequency. At this point all they do is take up space in my radio.

Either way the list is a suggestion....everyone can do what they want but that is basically what was used (not used) last year.

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 9:50 pm

I am planning on atleast trying to attend along with a friend, hopefully two. We would have 1 astro saber III (the only astro available to us) VHF IMBE and any and all other bands from HF to 800.
I could get in on some DES/ DES-XL if that's up on a channel as well. Maybe we could have a secret DES bat freq. to pass hot info on good deals. We could PM the KEY around prior to going.

Hope to see you guys there.

mancow

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Thu Dec 12, 2002 11:17 pm

I ask again! Is there any freq we can use there that is in this range as the astro radios I have to borrow are nota capable of going below 450 and I am not going to hack a department radio.

Anyone???

Bueller???????

Let's get creative........

I don't think that IF someone is lic'd on a certain freq and as long as there is not one within 30 + miles of that freq, that the FCC will collar us for using a freq for two days.

OK, start flaming me.

J~ Don't speech me about the legalities of freq. coordinations, etc...

I'm not in the mood.

Ciao

Dale Earnhardt · Post by **Dale Earnhardt** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 12:28 am

yeah lets use LAPD N. Hollywood Division freq lol, they will never know lol

I can hear it now, man LAPD sure put alot of power

wa2zdy · Post by **wa2zdy** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:35 am

I came up with an idea that may or may not be a good one, and it doesn't affect me anyway.

I recall some question from folks with MDC about what to program into the encode for Dayton. How about those who have MDC and choose to use it programming their Batlabs membership number (from the membership roster)? So far they're four digit numbers, except for the early joiners, and they could always use leading zeros to fill the four digit code.

Just a thought of course, for those who don't already have their MDC programmed for a more important purpose. And as I said, it doesn't affect me as I don't have MDC on my radios.

I may well try to get to Dayton this coming year. I chose to pass on the opportunity this past year, so maybe it's time now after 28 years of hamming.

Later,

Post by **alex** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:48 am

There have been a few good points brought up here.

These are my concerns:

We do our best here to make sure others are licensed, and operating with the right equipment for the right frequencies. We should hold ourselves to the same standards that we would want anyone else to be held to.

Also, this is a public forum, so keep in mind that using the stuff illegally and planning it out on a public forum isn't the best idea.

Jonathan - Your right about 151.88... we'll prob. have to PLAN B that one. I haven't looked into the other frequency that is close to FRS...

Chef - maybe we could run astro on 449.975mhz or something like that - right on the border. I believe GMRS prohibits the use of digital on their frequencies, so that's out of the question....

Such a pain to figure out.

Interms of MDC ID's, I personally don't forsee myself carying a list of member numbers... Just post your MDC ID you'll be using and I'll start a list on the post of the forum.

-Alex

motor59 · Post by **motor59** » Fri Dec 13, 2002 7:38 pm

w5atx wrote: I may well try to get to Dayton this coming year. I chose to pass on the opportunity this past year, so maybe it's time now after 28 years of hamming.

Chris -

I'm thinking about going too, workload permitting. Maybe we should start organizing the NJ contingent - carpool/caravan, hospitality suite

, etc...?

Chris · Post by **Chris** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 6:40 am

Astro CPS allows programming down to 445.00, you don't have to hack a thing.

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sat Dec 14, 2002 1:10 pm

I think one of our guys is going to sell so that might cover that pass. Otherwise I'll just buy my own pass. Time to start saving money for the astros!

I really think we should keep the number of channels to a minimum

1 VHF MURS
1 VHF HAM simplex, analog or digital
1 VHF HAM XBAND

1 UHF GMRS
1 UHF HAM analog or digital
1 UHF HAM XBAND

I think that's enough. Like Alex said we all have our own discreet channels.

Stick with DPL and if some of us want to run secure either post a key to our PM's or we should all just plan to meet at a local greasy spoon and share the info and check to make sure we're all up and running.

MDC I'd should be distributed, but I don't think we need a list or set up call lists. Too much work. Most of the radios decode raw MDC anyway these days. If you need to page them just use what's on your display.

We've got months to plan all of this, but lets at least get the freqs nailed down and stick with that posting.

A buddy and myself may be staying at anothe friends residence so there MIGHT be the chance of setting up the xband unit there but I can't promise anything at this point. It really close to the arena.

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Sun Dec 15, 2002 2:37 pm

Why not? I can't operate astro below 450.........

hfitzgerald · Post by **hfitzgerald** » Wed Dec 18, 2002 1:50 pm

80% chance I'll be there. (assuming no conflicts with training) Last year was my first Dayton because until then we've had Tulip Time festivities overlap with that weekend. I don't know that I'll be able to contribute a spot, but I did notice that there were an abundance of dealers selling extra dealer passes a few hours before the gates opened.

If there's any way I can help, let me know. I'm driving from the Holland/Grand Rapids area of Michigan. Last year I remember seeing a group of people wanding around Dayton with Saber 1s and 2s on their belts. One of them had a wide brim hat. Anybody from this board? Who had that 800 Mhz repeater running?

Lastly, if everybody can use DPL, I would strongly advise it. The group I was with last year had one guy without DPL so we all were stuck with straight PL. There was so much noise that my squelch was opening and closing all day long. I'd like to avoid that experience again. Also, some PL frequenies are more lilkely to get 'falsed' than others, I don't know the specifics but I'll ask our repeater guy.

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:36 am

alex wrote:
Just my $0.02.

I don't think we have a problem locating the radios, rick's, whatever - the problem is will there be someone who actually will have a space with enough power for us to run 2 maxtracs at ~5-10 watts for medium duty during the day.

-Alex

Alex,
we'll be there.
I'll have the boss' service van with the trailer.
I don't think he'd mind.

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 11:38 am

wazzzzzzzzup wrote:anybody want to do DES on 151.880? or another MURS freq (prefer 151.880) it uses csq so it would not open the squelch to annoy anyone else running pl or DPL

we can have a common key, myself and 3 other des radio buddies will be there if people are interested, i can post a key as time approaches.

definately keeps the scanner folk out of the loop.

YES!
Send me your DES key via PM or Email!

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Sun Dec 22, 2002 3:15 pm

Hopefully, I will go this year.

Last year, stuff came up, so it was a "no go" situation, even though I wanted to go to Dayton.

According to the website: "Hamvention's 2003 Theme is "Year of the Young". Our show's focus will be on the young ham and on bringing 12 - 18 year olds into amateur radio." I guess that just gives more incentive, since I'm just a little past that age group.

I plan on finding a 24-hour supermarket parking lot nearby to spend the night in my car. It's my idea of the most affordable lodging arrangements.

Let me just say, sleeping in a car isn't half as bad as sleeping on the ground, in a tent.

I should know. And food isn't very far away, for a quick midnight snack.

I most likely won't be there friday, and maybe will slither in sometime on saturday. I'll be around for the whole day of sunday. I want to see Panik smashing radios, like someone told me he did last year near closing on sunday.

I will be monitoring the cross-band ham freq (did we decide this one for sure?)

I'll also be monitoring 154.600 MHz [DCS 143] (Green Dot MURS-5) as primary, and 154.5700 MHz [DCS 143] (Blue Dot, MURS-4) as secondary. Both of these can be used as wide channels, and my radio will be set for wide. No MDC ID from me, though.

This is all, of course, if I go. The amount of cash-ola I save between now and then will be a deciding factor. I mean, it won't be as much fun, if I'm broke when I get there.

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Mon Dec 23, 2002 5:18 pm

nitornemo wrote: Alex,
we'll be there.
I'll have the boss' service van with the trailer.
I don't think he'd mind.

Alex,
I was up at the shop today and asked the boss and he said no problem!

Ooops! I quoted myself.....if that a Phopar or like playing with.....eerrrr....nevermind!

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Tue Dec 24, 2002 8:44 pm

Can't go this year, but those who do go, someone please bring a digital camara, and post some picts. of the board members who attended, that would be a cool idea

Hopefully next year I'll be able to attend. My job sch. has been tough this year. Not only that, but I live in CT, and I'm to cheap to get a flight

:) ( just kidding, the real reason IS work )

JAYMZ · Post by **JAYMZ** » Thu Dec 26, 2002 10:05 am

MT2000 man wrote:and I'm to cheap to get a flight

Drive. I drove last year 11 hours by myself in my pick up truck and have the chiropractor bills to prove it....

MT2000 man wrote:someone please bring a digital camara, and post some picts. of the board members who attended, that would be a cool idea

I'll have my camera and laptop to post pictures if any are taken....

Post by **alex** » Sat Dec 28, 2002 11:19 pm

nitornemo wrote:
alex wrote:
Just my $0.02.

I don't think we have a problem locating the radios, rick's, whatever - the problem is will there be someone who actually will have a space with enough power for us to run 2 maxtracs at ~5-10 watts for medium duty during the day.

-Alex
Alex,
we'll be there.
I'll have the boss' service van with the trailer.
I don't think he'd mind.

Excellent! Would you be willing to supply the radios/repeater interface kit of sorts? Or would you like me to gather the equipment, setup, test, etc, and just send do to you?

-Alex

Bob · Post by **Bob** » Sun Dec 29, 2002 6:53 am

If we're going to Cross-band a couple of ham freqs, I have a Kenwood TMD700A that I could contribute to the project. Granted, it's not /\/\, but It will draw a little less than a couple maxtracs and it has a built in duplexer. The offer is out there; I'll leave it up to the powers that be to figure out the details.

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Fri Jan 10, 2003 7:58 am

alex wrote:
nitornemo wrote:
alex wrote:
Excellent! Would you be willing to supply the radios/repeater interface kit of sorts? Or would you like me to gather the equipment, setup, test, etc, and just send do to you?

-Alex

I don't know about the rik and radios but we'll have a secure saber Breifcase base set up on VHF w/DES.

I've been chatten with Waaaazzzzzup and we agreed on some freq's and pl/dpl's.

more later

RADIOMAN2002 · Post by **RADIOMAN2002** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:04 pm

I know that I will be using DES on the 170 mhz Press channels and a DES suitcase repeater on 406 and another, if I can finish it on time on 460 GMRS. BTW what has happened to the official BAT channels.

Post by **alex** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:07 pm

I honestly don't know.

I haven't been putting a ton of time/throught into it as of recent, but I think we should firm up our plans, and soon!

-Alex

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 12:17 pm

For the Bat Wingers going to Dayton this Spring..

Would you be kind enough to stop by at ICOM's booth and encourage them to:

1) Get their commercial P25 radios and repeater designed ASAP, and on the market (can't let Motorola have 100% of this market!), and

2) Ask them why in the heck their Ham DStar radios and repeaters (which are sceduled to be shown and available for sale at Dayton 2003) are using a non-P25 digital voice format.

I can't make it this year, so Thanks, in advance, should you get a chance...

Larry

wazzzzzzzzup · Post by **wazzzzzzzzup** » Wed Jan 22, 2003 2:49 pm

i still like 151.880, worked before should work again. and if anyone is worried about calling any freq "OFFICIAL" batlabs freqs and think there could be problems with licensing, consider this, call it the "UNOFFICIAL" batlabs freqs, that way there is no solid connection with batlabs. that way you rely on the users to be licenced, that is if they choose to use a freq that requires licensing. (a local radio station calls themselves the "UNOFFICIAL" station for a certain yearly city party, because there is another station that can claim "OFFICIAL" locally, they have no problems saying "UNOFFICIAL" )

just an idea...

Barry Dehatchit · Post by **Barry Dehatchit** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 8:47 am

Perhaps Alex can start a poll on the question of frequencies, modes, pl/dpl, network access codes, bandwidth. I've attached all the suggestions so far at the end of this reply.

In terms of frequencies, it would be nice to have two sets for each "band" and mode. i.e:

VHF:
primary and secondary for analog ham (dpl or pl use on both).
primary and secondary for astro ham.
primary and secondary for commercial analog (dpl or pl use on both)..
primary and secondary for commercial astro.

UHF:
primary and secondary for analog ham (dpl or pl use on both).
primary and secondary for astro ham.
primary and secondary for commercial analog (dpl or pl use on both)..
primary and secondary for commercial astro.

Users with enough space in their radios can program all channels. Always nice to have a few extra channels just in case a channel is already in use (we landed on a food vendor's freq a few years back). We should also make sure everybody has compatible bandwidth, NAC's, pl/dpl's, astro talkgroups etc. We should also come up with some common names for each channel/mode.

If there's too many frequencies then we could always combine analog with digital on each band (primary for analog and astro on same frequency).

Here's the list so far:

VHF Commercial
151.880 PL 94.8 MURS GREEN
151.880 DPL D143 MURS GREEN
151.820 - 11.25 KHz
154.570 - 25 KHz - Blue Dot
154.600 - 25 KHz - Green Dot

VHF Ham
146.575 PL 94.8
146.5750 D143 (X-Band)
146.8750 IMBE CAI Digital CSQ

UHF Commercial
462.5500 PL 94.8

462.6625 D143 GMRS

UHF Ham
446.8250 PL 94.8
446.8250 D143
446.9250 IMBE CAI Digital CSQ

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 9:01 pm

Anyone who has the interest and energy to approach any of the amateur manufacturers, such as Icom, about digital comms and standards would do well to also lobby the ARRL to get its house in order and make a definitive statement on an amateur digital voice standard. ARRL has a committee which is supposedly studying this and will eventually, one would hope, come out with something sensible and workable. Why in God's name they don't just go P25 I personally can't understand, but we have to remember the built-in, stupid, amateur prejudice against anything that smacks of a tie to commercial/LMR methods. I still encounter this strange reaction, mostly among older guys (of which I'm now one but hopefully better informed on this particular subject than a lot of them). As it now stands, Alinco has a digital radio for sale which will work with (yep, you guessed it!) only other Alinco radios. Between Alinco and ARRL we could end up with several NEW methods in a couple of years. Now ain't that just what we all need?

Sorry to rant, but it bugs me that a hobby organization which has members who are so technically capable that they just made a new 150 gHz (yes, GIGAHERTZ!) 40 km path transmission record but can't decide on a simple digital standard is really in need of some strong member input.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 10:58 pm

Tom, it's also interesting to note that the ICOM DStar digital voice and high speed data radio (due to be shown and sold at this year's Dayton) will not be able to speak to the Yaesu nor Kenwood digital voice radios, nor repeat digitally through their repeaters---each of the Big Three (and Alinco) are developing their own proprietary digital voice flavors. None of them will be P25 IMBE.

I spoke to ICOM recently (to find out if there is a chance they might give M a run for their P25 dollars) about this non-P25 compliant issue, and they mentioned two issues, from their perspective:

1) The DStar system was a system that ICOM recently developed for Government use in Japan, and mainly involved 128 kb/s data, with some limited digital voice requirements. Probably not that surprising that Japan's commercial digital voice standard is unlike ours in the USA (after all, they have Sony and the Beta snafu to model after!).

2) They mentioned that P25 has a noticable licensing fee, on a per radio basis, which is pretty hard to overcome in the thin margined Ham market.

I have also found that other countries have to be different than each other, just "because." Have you ever wondered why the main rotor blades on US manufactured helicopters (like Bell and Hughes) turn counterclockwise (when viewed from above), while European copters' rotor blades (like Eurocopter) turn clockwise? As a pilot flying US manufactured helicopters, you have to push on the exact opposite direction on the anti-torque pedals, as compared to European copters. Everything is back asswards. Takes a little getting used to when you are first transitioning.

Kind of like Europe's 220 volt and 50 Hz system, too. It just sucks!

Larry

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Sat Jan 25, 2003 11:37 pm

well no offense, I've been a ham for 12 years now, but I must say most non public safety or commerical radio hams are well weird! Ham is really unusual in that often high end technology is at work here like the Ghz path distance at the same time CW and RTTY are still being used out there on the bands

I'm not starting the anti-cw debate, but some of the oldest technology in radio is perpetuated by the ham world. No wonder they don't want or understand the digital standard.

Similar issues with Tetra and its related formats which I hope stay over in europe and out of this market. Anyone know of a tetra product that can do convetional let alone talkaround? Might as well just all use nextel.

And to keep this on topic, we might as well use 853.4875 simplex with DPL for the 800 channel.

wazzzzzzzzup · Post by **wazzzzzzzzup** » Sun Jan 26, 2003 3:52 am

apco25 wrote:I'm not starting the anti-cw debate, but some of the oldest technology in radio is perpetuated by the ham world. No wonder they don't want or understand the digital standard

well i personally like the fact that ham radio has kept all the current "modes" in many of thier high end radios, like CW,AM,SSB,FM
i can hope that in a few years, as digital becomes hopefully more standardized, that you now have digital as an option in these radios, while still offering the older technology. i suspect very soon that the government will start requiring the new biz band licensing for narrow band also. hope they dont "require" hams to follow that standard, dont think they will. so i say bring on the digital technology, get it standardized and make it selectable in your radios, so you could see radios like this digital APCO 25,FM analog,AM,CW,SSB. having all these options and still allowing us to use analog as an option. let all the older technology continue to be " perpetuated" as you called it. but embrace the new technology also.

what about "calling" channels, like one in VHF.... 151.880 CSQ, and one in UHF 464.550 CSQ or something like that.... you meet there in analog FM mode CSQ, then change to one of the many channel options we decide, depending on what those people had discussed on the calling channel. that way everybody has atleast a chance to cross paths, and discuss what "UNOFFICIAL" bat freq to go to and what mode/frequency from a list we setup here.

KitN1MCC · Post by **KitN1MCC** » Wed Feb 26, 2003 5:34 pm

just to let you all know i just booked my room at marrioit on south patterson ohio

The Official Dayton Thread [2003]

The Official Dayton Thread [2003]

dayton? is it that ((@#@)@# time again????

Dayton

Dayton

UHF 450-512 ASTRO FREQ @ DAYTON

NO UHF 45- OR HIGHER ASTRO CHANNELS?

Dayton '03

Repeaters

Sounds like we need a poll?

Digital ham equipment...