astro encryption module question

wazzzzzzzzup · Post by **wazzzzzzzzup** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 2:16 pm

Astro Saber modules and part numbers per batlabs

NTN1370B - DVP/DVP-XL
NTN13769D - DES-XL/DVP-XL
NTN8967A - DVP-XL/DES-OFB Project-25

my question is this... does the NTN8967A board, do DES/DES-XL analog and DES/DES-XL in digital mode?
2nd question, i think i have a VSELP radio will that module still work in digital mode even though VSELP is not project 25 compliant?

also do these modules fit astro spectra mobiles? or even XTS3000 series radios

thanks for any help.

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Sun Apr 06, 2003 2:46 pm

wazzzzzzzzup wrote:Astro Saber modules and part numbers per batlabs
NTN1370B - DVP/DVP-XL NTN13769D - DES-XL/DVP-XL NTN8967A - DVP-XL/DES-OFB Project-25
my question is this... does the NTN8967A board, do DES/DES-XL analog and DES/DES-XL in digital mode?
2nd question, i think i have a VSELP radio will that module still work in digital mode even though VSELP is not project 25 compliant?
also do these modules fit astro spectra mobiles? or even XTS3000 series radios
thanks for any help.

Let me see here....this is what I found out the hardway and what I got from some help from those in the know here;
ENCRYPTION is ENCRYPTION, DES to DES in analog will talk with the same key. DES to DES in IMBE or DES to DES in VSLEP same deal.
XYZencryption to XYZ in mode Q ect-etc.....
Asabers and Aspectras fit the same module, XTS different, BUT...I'm still waiting for mine(see other thread

)

As I've posted here previously and in PM, the only problem I ran into was having ANYTHING ASTRO turned on in the channel data and trying to talk analog XL(with an AS3) to an analog saber with XL. Even with the astro having Tx NON-ASTRO and Rx Mix-Mode it seemed the radio still companded(or something) the Tx with astro data, and the analog saber with the same Key and encryption just heard RAW.

.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Tue Apr 08, 2003 9:36 pm

Wrong! DES Securenet (e.g., DES-CFB) will NOT work with IMBE, nor VSELP.

Larry

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Wed Apr 09, 2003 4:33 am

ASTROMODAT wrote:Wrong! DES Securenet (e.g., DES-CFB) will NOT work with IMBE, nor VSELP.

Larry

DES-CFB??? For Radios in the US???

DES and DES-XL _DO_ work, At least they work in my 5 AS3's on VHF to eachother, and My UHF AS3 to my friends XTS3500.
My VHF's are VSLEP and My UHF is IMBE.

.

Post by Pj » Wed Apr 09, 2003 10:23 am

You many have a problem if your two radio's are not talking to each other....at least in the hardware module or maybe even in the deviation.

We have a few Astro radios (XTS and AS) that still work with our fleet of Saber I's. This is from an EMC ver 0.6 to the new UCM modules, and all loaded with a DX loader..

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:01 pm

Wait one second...

For IMBE and VSELP, DES SECURENET (e.g., DES-CFB) will NOT work. DES SECURENET will only work in the FM (analog) mode, not in the digital mode (be it IMBE or VSELP)!

Larry

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 3:34 pm

ASTROMODAT: You are incorrect. I use (daily) 2 astro sabers with DES only (XL is turned off) and it IS secure. I am using IMBE. I can't vouch personally for VSELP though.

tpg

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Fri Apr 11, 2003 4:53 pm

If you are are TXing in C4 digital with IMBE, then IF your encryption is working, it is DES-OFB (and it can NOT be DES-CFB Securenet).

Yes, Securenet will work with an IMBE and/or VSELP radio, but ONLY if you are running in the analog FM mode.

Larry

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 5:00 am

NOPE! Not OFB!!!!

In C4FM, with an 1153 module (DES - DESXL Only, no OFB)

The astro saber will talk clear to any IMBE Digital Squelch radio on that channel. Turn secure on, and only those with the DES secure key will be able to hear it. (Yes it's still IMBE, NOT analog)

All the Sabers I have are 1153 modules, not OFB. All of them have XL turned off....

Why is this soooo hard to accept?

tpg

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 7:27 am

DES-CFB will NOT work if your radio is in the IMBE or VSELP mode(s). Check your settings.

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 10:47 am

Look Capt. Skeptical... come out of your sales manual... I made two flippin' Maxtracs pass Astro... I think I know what's what.

Plain DES, IS working. I don't need to check my settings because it's WORKING. Maybe you should check yours because it doesn't work for you!

Fly over and I'll SHOW you! Would you like me to prove it to others who are on this board in my area? Seems like a waste just to make you think outside the box.

Alex should know.... 2 of the radio's I'm using are from him, and they ONLY had 1153 modules in them. XL is turned off. So how can C4FM (can prove it on a service monitor) be OFB? if the module doesn't even support it!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This is my last post on this topic. If you can't accept it... it's your loss, not mine.
tpg

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 11:41 am

Attn: Pager Geek- Suggest you email the Batboard a jpeg of you talking DES-CFB on IMBE whilst walking on water!

Post by **wavetar** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 1:35 pm

Jeezus Larry, be a man & admit when you're wrong, or at least not completely right. DES-OFB is simply the APCO-25 accepted variant, not the only one that'll work in the Astro radios in digital mode. VSELP was around well before DES-OFB, how do you think they accomplished encryption in that case? If you're confused by the RSS calling the encryption "Securenet" when in analog mode, that's simply because it's Motorola's proprietary name for all their 12.5Kbs encryption. DES is DES is DES...whether it's used for analog or digital. The "OFB" codes & recovers differently, with a much different error correction scheme, but the 56-bit DES algorithm is the same regardless. As long as all radios have the same module, it'll work.

Todd

nitornemo · Post by **nitornemo** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 2:39 pm

HEATED

Topic....

What is the CFB stand for in DES-CFB refered to here.

I can't find a reference for it

The Pager Geek · Post by **The Pager Geek** » Sat Apr 12, 2003 4:31 pm

CFB = Cypher FeedBack... though I've never seen it written that way. Seems like just another term used to express an error correction variant...

I dunno, I could be wrong.

tpg

Post by **wavetar** » Sun Apr 20, 2003 3:23 pm

Just a thread I came across recently, for a little further info on the subject. The post at the end of the thread is the one that specifically applies to this one.

http://www.trunkedradio.net/groups/show ... eadid=3320

Todd

scoops · Post by **scoops** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 7:21 pm

Will a 1153 DES-XL module work with DES- OFB turned on . It sound like it would from reading the above post.
Thanks
scoops

mancow · Post by **mancow** » Sat Jun 14, 2003 9:37 pm

Ok, simplify this for a dummy (me) here please.

I thought it worked lilke this.

The VSELP or IMBE is just a form of digital modulation. Since it's digital it's basically converting the analog voice to the equivalent of 1s and 0s. If you put a DES or DES-XL module in the radio it just mixes up the 1s and 0s in the format that's used.
So my question is, why would it matter what module was installed? I would think that the only way some sort of incompatibility would arise is if some sort of timing information in the signal got lost.

I'm obviously not trying to prove anything right or wrong, just trying to see if I have it right.

mancow

ASTRO_25 · Post by **ASTRO_25** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 4:00 pm

hmmm.... larry's response?

Twisted_Pear · Post by **Twisted_Pear** » Sun Jun 15, 2003 6:01 pm

[sarcasm] Moto sales said "insert most priciest product" is the only thing that works! We know they are always correct! [/sarcasm]

-W

astro encryption module question

astro encryption module question

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