DStar Update-Holy Cow: This Ain't Your Daddy's Oldsmobile!!!

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 3:39 pm

I learned a few things today about DStar. Looks like the ID-1 mobile
and the DSatr Repeater MAY be available about this September, 2003, IF
we are lucky. AES is indicating $1,349.99 for the ID-1. The repeater MUST
include BOTH boxes (digital voice AND H/S Data), even if you only need
digital voice. The issue is that the HS Data box includes various
control circuitry that is necessary to support digital voice
operations, let alone data. The $6k estimate for the combined repeater
box appears to be roughly accurate, at least at this juncture.
However, this is expected to include the duplexer, albeit not the
antenna. It is still TBD if ICOM will supply the base station antenna
(at possibly additional cost). The mobile antenna will defiantely be
left to 3rd parties, which appear to be primarily Comet, since
Radiall/Larsen no longer plays in the 1296 Ham game.

I asked about the possibilty of the DStar repeater interfacing to
various external controllers. ICOM explained that conventional
external controllers are yesterday's technology in terms of
interfacing with analog repeaters. The DStar repeater system will have
the ability to see who is out there, which mobiles and repeaters are
active, etc. by automatic digital means, somewhat akin to cellular.
The infrasture is all there, but the specific applications are
unlimited on the one hand, yet dependant upon what applicattions that
3rd parties might choose to come up with.

DStar looks to be a completely different world, as compared to today's
analog world! We need to completely re-adjust our thinking caps in
this regard! I realized as soon as he begin to answer my external
controller question that I was thinking in yesterday's terms. For
instance, I had thought about playing WAV files from my PC up the
backbone to the DStar repeater, and out over the air, for IDs and
announcements, etc. But, how crude that would be! With the DStar
system's 100% digital nature, my mobile will automatically be
displaying its ID for all DStar users to see on their displays (and
/or PC screens), and the same holds true for the repeater's ID. I will
be able to see which mobiles are active in LA, at any given time, from
my mobile in Seattle, and vice versa. The same holds true for "seeing"
which DStar repeaters are active, etc. in any given city that has
DStar (like Japan!).

Let's just hope that Kenwood and Yaesu see the light, and also go with
DVSI's 2.4 AMBE approach (@ 4.8 kb/s).

The microwave backbone will operate at 10 Mb/s. ICOM estimates that
each backbone will support up to 28 repeaters. The cost of the
backbone will be quite high. About $10k per end ($20k per link), NOT
including antennae. I would estimate another $3k per end for the
antennae, so you're looking at maybe $26k plus for EACH backbone hop
(and lots of hops may be needed for long distances).

ICOM is pondering the possibility of writing a primer to try to help
Hams see new ways to get funding for such infrastructure (particularly
the backbones), especially in light of 9-11. They point out that many
hospitals, and the like, have been urged, and even required, to have
HS data systems in place that are separate from their "normal" systems
so they have back-up capabilities in emergencies. In fact, there are
apparently certain Government requirements (post 9-11) for Ham radio
systems to fulfill a big part of this back-up requirement. The
thinking is that some of these DStar infrastructure costs might be
able to be underwritten by the involved hospital(s), which is nothing
compared to their relatively huge P25 infrastructure costs. Also, it
appears that this partnership with Hams and hospitals might be viewed
in a favorable light, particularly in connection with the
"requirement" for hospitals to have back-up Ham system support for
emergencies. We'll see.

ICOM is now testing streaming video in their Bellevue HQ over DStar,
and I understasnd that it is pretty darn awesome.

BTW, the Repeater is now said to NOT support analog FM 1296 voice,
ONLY digital DVSI 2.4 AMBE 4.8 kb/s voice and HS data. They hope to
potentially tie-in the old analog FM repeaters by way of the internet
connectivity, at some future point (so who cares about FM anyway?!).

That's it for now, Kids!

Larry

fireradio · Post by **fireradio** » Wed Jul 23, 2003 5:32 pm

Awesome, this is long past due! I can't wait for it to come out. It is exciting to see that at least one company is trying to put ham radio back into the modern world. If they drop the price a little bit, this system could become a big hit. And if D-Star takes off, maybe ham radio trunking won't be too far behind?! Or even better, maybe the next version of D-Star will have trunking capabilities built in!

I assume that it is also going to feature some sort of signalling system similar to what Astro radios offer? Call alert, private call, things of that nature?

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 1:02 pm

The DStar system design will support an infinite number of signaling schemes. It will all be up to the various 3rd Party Software Developers as to what features will/will not surface. The Marketplace will dictate this. But again, the DStar infrastructure is robust enough to do most anything that applications software develolpers decide to code and market.

Larry

apco25 · Post by **apco25** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:51 pm

OK I see a slight issue here.

Its another DVSI product like APCO25 IMBE and EDACS Provoice.

BUT, if its that close to those formats why make yet another digital system?

THat's not improving interop but decreasing it even if its aimed at the ham market.

We should ALL be using APCO25 IMBE CAI infrastructure.

Great concept and I am very glad to see digital hit the general ham market but why go this route? Its certainly not any cheaper than wat the commerical stuff costs.

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Thu Jul 24, 2003 3:57 pm

JARL selected AMBE, which was the basis for DStar.

Larry