XTS 1500

[tom IL]

Looks like Motorola has finally come out with the low tier digital potable.
http://www.motorola.com/cgiss/portables/xts1500.shtml

[Jonathan KC8RYW]

Neat, when's the UHF version going to come out?

[tom IL]

Haven't found that info yet, but thats what I'm wating for !

[penstar]

What about pricing? The catalog sheet says it's "cost effective"....to whom I wonder, Motorola to manufacture, or the end user to buy?

[Pj]

I find it interesting that the radio can use MT1000 accessories on up...

[HumHead]

It looks like they borrowed a lot of the construction from the Professional Series portables.

I am also curious about the claim to use such a variety of accessories.

[fireradio]

That MT1000 thing has got to be a typo.... maybe they meant JT1000?

[/\/\y 2 cents]

Im pretty sure it would be MT1000, many departments that are reluctant and too poor to change their equipment skipped the jedi generation entirely and still carry MT1000's...mostly smaller cities and rural places....This is a BRILLANT and CALCULATED move by motorola due to the fact that the time is coming where A: these portables can no longer be legally used due to 12.5 Khz compliance and B: by now those portables are about on thier last leg and the department is going to HAVE to buy new radios. They needed a way to push these guys into digital for the same cost as they are used to paying, plus when EFJ is in there competing with their lower cost P25 product motorola wants to have the upper hand by touting compatability with their already substantial investment in accessories such as speaker mic's and survaillece kits programming hardware, etc. This could mean a city or county could save thousands if not hundreds of thousands. I just drove through georgia the other day and ALL of the troopers were carrying VHF MT1000's and thats just one of maybe thousands of departments with these radios as their primary units in service. Good strategy....and also I forgot that MT1000 is super duper popular with Fire and EMS still, let alone pub. works, parks you name it. Do you agree with me on my theory or not? Let me hear it.

[/\/\y 2 cents]

I am retracting my ealier post. My bad...I wrote the previous post before looking at the brochure picture. It is obviously a typo and should be HT1000/JT1000.......sorry I shot my mouth off to early....I hope motorola dosen't use my plan because it probably wouldn't be a half bad thing to do considering they will probably price it about what an MT1000 was 12 years or so ago. Anyways, they say it is high quality a, and whenever you have to say it's something, it usually has a problem with that. It's like a good doctor or lawyer dosen't advertise because reputaion and performance speak for themseves. Probably a POS that sounds like a nextel.

[xmo]

"...when's the UHF version going to come out?"
---------------------------------------------------------

The inside story is: 'not staffed - no date commitment'

Read that as at least a year out [unless they get a BIG contract and go into hurry-up mode].

[tom IL]

I think they ment to type MT 2000.

[1 Adam 12]

The units uses accessories from the XTS series and MTS series, obviously most likely batteries from one series either XTS or MTS and audio accessories are common in the most part to both lines..... The base cost to a pretty good sized govt user will be around $2,000. Actually have a agency that is gonna demo some here in the near future .

[Renamon]

A GRAY XTS? WTF?!?!?! Sorta plain looking and a tad ugly, but other than that, Cool!

[ASTROMODAT]

No key pad, and thus no RF remote control of the DIU 3000. And, no encryption. Ouch.

I would guess the XTS 1500 will go for something approaching $4,000 list, typically equipped, which would be a full one-third less than the very pricey $6,000 XTS 3000. Maybe we will all be pleasantly surprised, and it will be only $3,000, but I doubt it.

As soon as the XTS 1500 shows up in the current price book, I will post. I get a new price book every month, and as of August, 2003, the XTS 1500 is not yet in the price book. If the Nov, 2003 availability date turns out to be correct, I should see something pretty darn soon. This will also spell out all of the detailed options, as well as accessories, etc. I find that the price book is the BEST source of actual/true information on Motorola radios, since you must have a number for everything ordered, thus nothing is left to speculation, etc. Like my old boss used to say: "If it ain't on the STIC-1, you ain't gittin' it!" He's the same guy that also used to say: "A handshake don't mean nuttin'---Don't book it until you gotta' FO and cash down."

Now, if Watchbuddy can get a bunch of parts...

Larry

[Josh]

A cheaper radio is nice, but NO keypad and NO display, means NO good!

I guess that's what the XTS2500 was designed for....it's almost the same except black, and available in models I, II, and III (as the XTS3000, 5000 is).

I think that the XTS1500 is the same thing as the XTS2500 model I, come to think about it!

-Josh

[ASTROMODAT]

Then again, "Beggars can't be choosers!" and "You can't have your cake, and eat it, too!"

I guess if you want a cheap radio, you must be willing to forgo some of the features.

Larry

[/\/\y 2 cents]

ASTROMODAT I'm going to bet your predicted prices are WAY off (this is not an insult)........Remember...This is the poor mans ASTRO.....I'm betting $1000-$1200 for a model I through about $1500 for a model II or III (if their even is one)...Motorola is clearly trying to bring everybody system to digital entirely. The recycling of the molds/ design has probably allowed them to lower their cost due to the previous selling model's (HT series and Cosmos series influences evident) success and decreased
R/D...Who knows, I could be wrong but lets not forget about the LTS2000 (based on GP300/P110) being put in place in cities while Pub safety uses new MTS even older XTS contracts for a mixed mode system (city of boca raton, fl as example) etc...and what is the price comparison between the two? (most cities get smartnet LTS for a hare under 1000$ ea.)This radio seems to aimed at pub works and local gov. utilities the "civil" side of the city....you never know though. One thing is for sure...they sure are aggressive with new digital model rollout theese last 2 years. Heres a story, One time about 3 years ago 2 young engineers from the plant in fort lauderdale stormed my office looking for brochures on the EFJ stealth and P25 portable. We were the local EFJ SMR dealer so not many people in the office knew what they wanted, of course being a radio freak I had a pretty good idea of what they were up to...either they were looking to file a lawsuit for infringement and need some technical info, or wanted something to throw darts at while they pumped themselves up to compete with EFJ in the low-tier digital market. One things for sure....prices will only fall when it comes to most electronics. What do you guys think?

[ASTROMODAT]

I hope you are correct---that would be great to have a $1,000 new ASTRO portable. However, I don't think the case is much of an issue. It's the continued drive to recover R&D, including the horrendously expensive software costs. Then, there are the royalties for the IMBE coder, etc. ICOM, for instance, has some real concerns about offering a P25 radio just based on the various 3rd party royalties, which is why they say these radios are all over $4,000.

We'll see--I hope I'm wrong.

Larry

[/\/\y 2 cents]

In refrence to the 2500 model I being the same as a 1500 model I.....does the 2500 support encryption?, because if it does than that is your difference right there. No secure socket these days may = no reccomendation to Pub saf. market for future secure upgrade and sensitive ops use. Although I could think of many utilities that could benefit from securenet, especially in these times. Think of it like a MTX and an MTS but w/o the 1 meg flashport difference, just the securenet socket present or not.
Steve

[xmo]

This thing is supposed to be CHEAP.

Motorola has had one big problem converting the entire world to Smartzone 6 / P25 digital trunking. Many customers buy trunking systems for ALL the radio users in their geography, not just public safety.

Public works agencies cannot affort full featured Astro radios - and really don't need all the features. A lot of customers still buy mixed-mode systems because they believe that analog is the only way they can get a cheap radio.

This product is supposed to change all that. Notice what the announcement says: "cost-effective and compact radio solution for public works and utilities"

This baby is stripped down - feature poor - and CHEAP. Look for 16 modes - no zones - one trunking system per radio - just basic talk and listen.

[ASTROMODAT]

As Mr. Clinton would say: It depends on the meaning of "cheap." That's the operative word here.

If they price the XTS 1500 at $3,000, that's one-half the price (or a 100% price reduction) over a loaded XTS 3000.

Anyways, we will know when the price book spell out the price. Until then, ...

Sure hope it is $1,000---heck, that's a lot less than the new Ham DStar radio!

Larry

[Pj]

But here is the thing. Most public safety users don't need a fully loaded XTS. Large or small. CT State Police fully implemented their statewide SmartZone Digital system last year, and their flashcode is IMBE and H38. That's it. Mass State is the same way for the most part.

Even with large agencies, how many need or can afford:
Multikey
One Touch
Singletone
OTAR/OTACS
Soft ID
Conventional Voting
Etc etc

I was told by a Motorola man that most of the Astro options were put in place to sell the new stuff and work with the old stuff. He told me that for the most part, its only IMBE/APCO-25 that you are getting for the Astro name. A MTS etc will do want you want for everything else...and yes you have to maintain some backwords compatibility.

Our XTS3000's with IMBE, Display ID, DVP-XL and all the accessories etc were less than $3000 each I believe. We only ordered 15 this time around. The Astro Spectra's were in the same ballpark.

Flashport is what Motorola is selling these days. You can buy this now, but you can always get that later...(even though it will cost more).

For most of us on this board, most of us like to have the loaded flashcodes to play with, but we ultimalty NEVER use any of it.

[ASTROMODAT]

Forgive me if I don't hold my breath for a $1,000 ASTRO portable, but...

Have you seen the new prices on the analog MT 2000?

Remember last month when the list price on the lowest priced UHF MT 2000 was $1,155?

Surprise: The new August, 2003 price for this same radio is a meere $1,505. Heck, that's only a 40% price increase.

Yep, I'm still not quite yet convinced we'll being seeing a $1,000 ASTRO radio.

Then again, I'll GLADLY eat crow if I'm wrong, and it will be well worth it!

Larry

[werdnuts]

Larry, where do you work again?

In case you haven't noticed, M increases prices of models they are phasing out in order to make the new model more enticing. Go back and compare your price pages between the HT750 and the HT1000. This is a perfect example. They have done this consistently with just about every new line they have introduced and their replacements.

I would not be surprised to see the xts1500 priced in the $1400-$2000 range. Honestly, it would not shock me if it were lower. Pretty much eveyone here has hit on the fact M wants to push conversion of systems to P25 Digital. In order to get all those Public entities to get rid of their STX800s and upgrade, they have to make it cost efective. Look at the big picture. M wants to sell infrastructure. That is the big money. Imagine the money they will make converting a trunk system to digital. The radios are very cheap to make, thus allowing for the most flexability to get the sale. Example: $1 million in infrastructure upgrades at almost full price and 100 radios at 2 grand a pop (lets say list would be $3500). That's a $1.2 million deal. vs full price radios at $3500 each. $150K difference. If you want to convince someone to buy the infrastructure, you have to do what it takes to get them. In the long run, once they go digital, that eliminates all the non-P25 products you sell. Now they have only a small selection of higher priced radios to choose from. From the initial sale, they know the guy driving the trash truck doesn't need a $3000 radio. In order to sell the infrastructure, the product line has to support it. Therefore, having a very reasonably priced radio for all those departments that don't need high end radios will justify the initial costs of the infrastructure.

Another point, if you refer to your Above the Price Book information, you can price out xts5000s with encryption and a decent flashpackage for $5000. I have not found a way to price an XTS3000 at $6000. Not to mention, quanity does count. Agencies buying significant quantities are able to get closer to a $2000 per unit cost. In fact, many buy off state bid. This allows them to get very low prices AND they can buy without going out to bid.

I think we have beaten this dead horse enough.

-werdnuts

[Pj]

You also have to remember, the price in the price book may not be the actual selling price when negitioted with public safety contracts. I saw the pricebook when we ordered new stuff and the compared that to the prices we paid....complete difference.

Motorola Sales (not the larger MSS) are capable of some magic..

[/\/\y 2 cents]

I've never heard of ANY department even payong close to what the price says in the price book.....there is a thing called RFQ's, Bidding, and competiton, and even if the Moto factory sales people are one of the few that can sell this stuff, there are a few large dealers in the united states that can deal in this level equipment no problem....even if they don't win, they drive the price down a whole heck of alot, and usually the factory ends up beating them but with alot less profit than intended. Anybody that pays list is a guy off the street who buys 1 radio or is a radio nerd like us that has no idea about Ebay or Watchbuddy and puts it on layaway.

[ASTROMODAT]

Someone here posted:

“I have not found a way to price an XTS3000 at $6000.”

Lets check the August, 2003 Price Book. List prices for a loaded XTS 3000, which is what I referenced:

1. H09UCH9PW7N (800 MHz, 255 Chnl, 1-3 Watts) $2482
2. Q806 CAI $515
3. H38 Smartzone $1500
4. Q361 ASTRO 25 Software $300
5. Q387 Conventional Voting Scan $100
6. H101 Repeater Access Tone (RAT) $100
7. H14 Digital ID $75
8. H43 Radio Trace & Remote Monitor $100
9. H46 Trunked 1 Button Status/Msg $150 10. Q173 Smartzone Omnilink $200
11. H62 Encryption $949
12. Q498 ASTRO P25 OTAR (includes Multikey) $740
13. Q712 heavy Duty Battery $93
-------
Sub Total: $7304

You can also add an additional $415 to this for additional options such as packet data interface and cable, stat alert and 2 yr warranty. Don’t forget sales tax and shipping, etc.

As to discounts, the Feds and large Public Safety Depts can realize discounts up to about 26% or so. The largest discount I ever saw on the job was a 35% discount, which is nowadays unheard of. Even that deep of a discount would put this loaded XTS at over $4,700. So, with a typical discount and a lesser equipped XTS 3000, you might get it for
Something around $4,000.

Again, my comments about a cheap radio were in reference to the list price of a fully loaded XTS 3000. I said that if they sold it for $3,000, that’s one-half the list price of a loaded XTS 3000, so maybe this is what they mean by “cheap.”

Who knows? If the XTS 1500 is $1,000, you’ll have to shove me aside to get ahead of me in line to buy ‘em!

Larry

P.S. By the way, I just checked the list price of a comparably equipped XTS 5000. Wanna' know what that Baby lists for? Hint: A LOT more than the XTS 3000!

[xmo]

Larry is exactly right about the discounts. If anyone is thinking that Motorola sells these at 40%, 50% or more off they're dreaming.

As far as the price of the XTS5000 vs. the XTS3000 it really isn't any more money except that there may be more available options so you can run the total tab higher.

The base price for the tier 3 XTS5000 is $2482 - the same as the XTS3000
The Q806 CAI, H38 Smartzone, H14 ID options are all the same prices.

So for the average customer [that doesn't need every line item in the price book] - they cost the same. Of course, as Larry pointed out, that can be pretty spendy regardless of 3000 vs. 5000.

A reasonable configuration would be a tier 3 with CAI, Smartzone, 9600/P25 [which includes Omnilink], ID display, UCM, DES-OFB, two year service extension, nicad, and tri-chem charger. This will sticker out just past $5850.00. Multikey will put you over the $6K mark. OTAR is a big hit & not many local govt systems have it.

That means even with discount you are looking at the $4500+ range per radio.

[ASTROMODAT]

For example, the GSA ASTRO contract involves a discount of 26 to 29%, depending on basic model vs/ options, etc. So, apply that to the list prices, and the features you want, and you will have a very close estimate of what the GSA would pay (and they are a bit bigger than any of us, I think!). In the end, the net price is a bit higher than Watchbuddy's prices!

larry