thanks for your time
steve
motorola service monitors
Moderator: Queue Moderator
-
stangmansvo
- Posts: 66
- Joined: Thu May 23, 2002 3:15 pm
motorola service monitors
Well its come time for me to think about purchasing a quality "Motorola" service monitor and would like to ask all you Motorola techs which one should I purchase?? I will be using it for mt & ht portables, maxtrac & radius mobiles, and Minitor pagers.
thanks for your time
steve
thanks for your time
steve
Hi:
I am sure you will receive a lot of comments from many
Techs and from all points of view.
This is just a quick review of why I chose the R2200B as
my main Portable / Mobile Monitor Not applicable for use
in Trunking where advanced modes of Digitial requirements
are needed.
I will share a few examples of my point of view, which may or may not be shared with others. These are just a few ( not all ).
I personally chose the R2200B Series ( Now Discontinued ) only
from the stand point I wanted a Visual Display of the Freqs,
( 2 Large LCD's were used for that ) with a Analog Graph of tunning values ( + & - ) , along with a Nice Scope.
Some of Motorola's Service Monitors rely on JUST A CRT Display
Alone....Loose the Display there, and you are pretty much dead
in the water.
The LCD Displays in Motorola Monitors have proven to be very
reliable, and do well over years. However, the small CRT's in these
Monitors are Horribly expensive 500.00 and Up, sometimes over
1000.00 so make sure the CRT Display is in good condition, and does not fade away when heated up.
I also illuminated mine when used in a dark area.
Service Tip: Turn the SCOPE OFF when not needed, as the CRT;s
for the R2200B, and R2400B have a Horrible Replacement Cost. I use a External Tektronix Scope when used in the shop, and only use the Internal Scope when in the field.
The original Telefunken CRT's are no longer made, and its repleacement is a real piece of ( you know )
Other nice features is "Off the Air" monitoring, and a High Level
Gen Output so you can even program one channel like a Mobile
Radio to access repeaters, or even simplex.
It also has a " Option " board ( about 1000.00 ) and that allows
DPL Decoding and a host of other nice features.
Its also small enough to carry around...So do not leave it
alone in a vehicle.
Monty
I am sure you will receive a lot of comments from many
Techs and from all points of view.
This is just a quick review of why I chose the R2200B as
my main Portable / Mobile Monitor Not applicable for use
in Trunking where advanced modes of Digitial requirements
are needed.
I will share a few examples of my point of view, which may or may not be shared with others. These are just a few ( not all ).
I personally chose the R2200B Series ( Now Discontinued ) only
from the stand point I wanted a Visual Display of the Freqs,
( 2 Large LCD's were used for that ) with a Analog Graph of tunning values ( + & - ) , along with a Nice Scope.
Some of Motorola's Service Monitors rely on JUST A CRT Display
Alone....Loose the Display there, and you are pretty much dead
in the water.
The LCD Displays in Motorola Monitors have proven to be very
reliable, and do well over years. However, the small CRT's in these
Monitors are Horribly expensive 500.00 and Up, sometimes over
1000.00 so make sure the CRT Display is in good condition, and does not fade away when heated up.
I also illuminated mine when used in a dark area.
Service Tip: Turn the SCOPE OFF when not needed, as the CRT;s
for the R2200B, and R2400B have a Horrible Replacement Cost. I use a External Tektronix Scope when used in the shop, and only use the Internal Scope when in the field.
The original Telefunken CRT's are no longer made, and its repleacement is a real piece of ( you know )
Other nice features is "Off the Air" monitoring, and a High Level
Gen Output so you can even program one channel like a Mobile
Radio to access repeaters, or even simplex.
It also has a " Option " board ( about 1000.00 ) and that allows
DPL Decoding and a host of other nice features.
Its also small enough to carry around...So do not leave it
alone in a vehicle.
Monty
Need help on a Program Cable or (/\/\) Rib Box ?
Contact me anytime/All availible / Free Support Info !
mail to: [email protected]
PLease avoid PM's whenever possible. Box gets too full.
Contact me anytime/All availible / Free Support Info !
mail to: [email protected]
PLease avoid PM's whenever possible. Box gets too full.
-
Tony Soprano
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm
Can't really go wrong with an R2200, for day-to-day performance, compact size and serviceability. I use an R2410 (an R2200 with spectrum anaylyzer option) on the test bench, and it just does the job. Much better for test bench work than say an R2600, with the aforementioned big CRT.
Only drawback is that they are no longer supported by the Motorola Test Equipment Depot, and parts are getting high priced, if you can find them at all. Take good care of it, turn the scope intensity down (or off) and it won't let you down.
Only drawback is that they are no longer supported by the Motorola Test Equipment Depot, and parts are getting high priced, if you can find them at all. Take good care of it, turn the scope intensity down (or off) and it won't let you down.
WRONG.....The Motorola Test Equipment Service Depot DOES support the R2200/R2400 series. In fact they still support the R2000 series (except for the "A" models). I've also read and heard complaints that they charge too much, but when you think about it, they haven't raised their rates since May of 2001, they have a very liberal warranty & are pretty quick on turn around, I think they are a good support service.Only drawback is that they are no longer supported by the Motorola Test Equipment Depot
Just my 2 cents.
Dave
-
Tony Soprano
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm
DJP126 wrote:WRONG.....The Motorola Test Equipment Service Depot DOES support the R2200/R2400 series. In fact they still support the R2000 series (except for the "A" models). I've also read and heard complaints that they charge too much, but when you think about it, they haven't raised their rates since May of 2001, they have a very liberal warranty & are pretty quick on turn around, I think they are a good support service.Only drawback is that they are no longer supported by the Motorola Test Equipment Depot
Just my 2 cents.
Well, if that's indeed the case, then they are going back on their own announcement of being outside the window of support, effective 6/01/03. Source: Motorola Online, Cancellation Notices
But, it wouldn't be the first time they did something like that.
Okay Tony,
I just spoke with Mary Anne at Test Equipment Service. It turns out that both of us are correct. MOL should have stated that as of 6/1/03 the R2200/R2400 series would not be accepted for Service Agreements. As far as repairs of the units, Motorola will look at them and if the necessary parts are available, they will repair the monitor at their flat rate. So far, they have NOT had to send one back unrepaired but as you stated earlier, parts are getting hard to find.
A point of clarification... If you have an R2200/2400 under a service contract, they will repair it under that contract but they won't renew it when the time comes as of 6/1/03.
I just spoke with Mary Anne at Test Equipment Service. It turns out that both of us are correct. MOL should have stated that as of 6/1/03 the R2200/R2400 series would not be accepted for Service Agreements. As far as repairs of the units, Motorola will look at them and if the necessary parts are available, they will repair the monitor at their flat rate. So far, they have NOT had to send one back unrepaired but as you stated earlier, parts are getting hard to find.
A point of clarification... If you have an R2200/2400 under a service contract, they will repair it under that contract but they won't renew it when the time comes as of 6/1/03.
Dave
-
Tony Soprano
- Batboard $upporter
- Posts: 418
- Joined: Mon Sep 03, 2001 4:00 pm
Good to know that there is still a safety net for the time being. Their repair prices do seem expensive, but what are you gonna do, buy another monitor? Best to repair it if possible.
Something else that begs to be addressed: Motorola isn't the only game in town for service monitors. Some people swear by their IFR's, I've never used one myself. What are the impressions of full-time techs about non-Motorola monitors?
Something else that begs to be addressed: Motorola isn't the only game in town for service monitors. Some people swear by their IFR's, I've never used one myself. What are the impressions of full-time techs about non-Motorola monitors?
When you send a service monitor in for repair they can't just fix the one thing that failed, they have to check it out completely - which is essentially the same thing as a full calibration.
When you think about the number of functions performed by a service monitor and look at the extensive process for calibration and the amount of equipment it takes to do it - the Motorola Test Equipment Service pricing starts to look like a pretty good bargain.
Their contract rates are attractive as well because they include annual calibration and also cover items like the CRT that are not included in the flat rate fix-it pricing.
As far as non-Motorola monitors - that is sort of like asking about different brands of cars or cameras. The major brands all build solid, quality products, but there will be a lot of personal preference issues[size, weight, display, user interface]. There will also be suitability/features issues.
If you need [or will need soon] P25 capability, there are only two choices - R2670 or IFR2975. This was discussed in another thread here recently.
For 'traditional' two-way [analog] there are a wide range of choices and with change in the wireless [cellular] industry there are a lot of used monitors available at good prices.
Flat out - the best bargain in sheer RF performance, features, and capabilities is the HP8920 series. These are way ahead of the R2600 series and [except for frequency range] outperform even the new IFR 2975. If you work with duplexers and filters - the spectrum analyzer/tracking generator in the 8920 is way better than the R2600's - and you can forget about the 2200/2400/2001 units because they don't come with a tracking generator at all.
When you think about the number of functions performed by a service monitor and look at the extensive process for calibration and the amount of equipment it takes to do it - the Motorola Test Equipment Service pricing starts to look like a pretty good bargain.
Their contract rates are attractive as well because they include annual calibration and also cover items like the CRT that are not included in the flat rate fix-it pricing.
As far as non-Motorola monitors - that is sort of like asking about different brands of cars or cameras. The major brands all build solid, quality products, but there will be a lot of personal preference issues[size, weight, display, user interface]. There will also be suitability/features issues.
If you need [or will need soon] P25 capability, there are only two choices - R2670 or IFR2975. This was discussed in another thread here recently.
For 'traditional' two-way [analog] there are a wide range of choices and with change in the wireless [cellular] industry there are a lot of used monitors available at good prices.
Flat out - the best bargain in sheer RF performance, features, and capabilities is the HP8920 series. These are way ahead of the R2600 series and [except for frequency range] outperform even the new IFR 2975. If you work with duplexers and filters - the spectrum analyzer/tracking generator in the 8920 is way better than the R2600's - and you can forget about the 2200/2400/2001 units because they don't come with a tracking generator at all.
I Like Our Motorola R2600D
I like our motorola R2600D
Service Monitor.
"I like our motorola R2600D ..."
-------------------------------------
A lot of people like the 2600 series with good reason. They are solid, reliable performers with enough features for most two-way work and have always come with a big easy to read screen.
They have been around long enough to be available used at reasonable prices, yet they still have prospects of a long support life.
Here is one that was sold recently on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... egory=4669
I would personally pick a 2600 over a 2200/2400 because I like the screen. The RF capabilities are about the same, so if the smaller size of the 2200/2400 is important [or you prefer the LCD] then that would be the way to go [for less money, too]
Here is an ebay sale of a 2410:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=25394
-------------------------------------
A lot of people like the 2600 series with good reason. They are solid, reliable performers with enough features for most two-way work and have always come with a big easy to read screen.
They have been around long enough to be available used at reasonable prices, yet they still have prospects of a long support life.
Here is one that was sold recently on ebay:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... egory=4669
I would personally pick a 2600 over a 2200/2400 because I like the screen. The RF capabilities are about the same, so if the smaller size of the 2200/2400 is important [or you prefer the LCD] then that would be the way to go [for less money, too]
Here is an ebay sale of a 2410:
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?Vi ... gory=25394
Motorola 2600D Remote
The Motorola 2600D was made that you
could install it at a remote radio site and
run it from any remote location.
We have never run it from remote.
We have never used it with a computer.
Has any one used it from remote or
with a computer.
It is just a service monitor for us.
CRT and replacement
Hello.
I had a friend replace the entire video section of a 2000?.
The CRT is simply no longer available, so, he "HAMstered it".
The display is now a SVGA LCD display, brightness was not enough, so, the backlight from hell is used.
Instead of the dainty little cold cathode tubes, the lamp driver for a LCD projector is employed, with a heat shield.
This thing could be seen by the blind!
What they do in Mexico city will amuse and amaze, but they make it work.
When the 2200s become cheap surplus, I may want to replace the video, perhaps with a LCD, but not the suntan model.
I had a friend replace the entire video section of a 2000?.
The CRT is simply no longer available, so, he "HAMstered it".
The display is now a SVGA LCD display, brightness was not enough, so, the backlight from hell is used.
Instead of the dainty little cold cathode tubes, the lamp driver for a LCD projector is employed, with a heat shield.
This thing could be seen by the blind!
What they do in Mexico city will amuse and amaze, but they make it work.
When the 2200s become cheap surplus, I may want to replace the video, perhaps with a LCD, but not the suntan model.
We have an IFR 2975 Monitor, and it is pretty good. I have some issues with it: saving set ups and freq lists is not exactly uncomplicated, the fan is too loud (I know, tough sh**), and, once I updated to the latest software revision, now my lists don't work anymore. IFR is supposed to be working on the list thing, but I haven't heard from them since the day I called to tell them about it. (the day after the revision came available) The price of this monitor makes it pretty much a "professional" monitor. Meaning that you would probably not want to spend $30, 000 to $40,000 on a monitor for a hobby. Before we bought this one, we used an IFR 1500, and an IFR 1000S. Both were pretty good, but had some issues as well. Overall, though, I would say that we have had good success, and have been pretty happy, with the IFR monitors.
Your 2975
What version of firmware are you running?
What do you mean "my lists don't work"?
How would you suggest making saving setups less complicated?
What do you mean "my lists don't work"?
How would you suggest making saving setups less complicated?
This is my opinion, not Aeroflex's.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
"How would you suggest making saving setups less complicated?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give us some sort of file operations capability. When you go to save a setup on the 2975 it's up to the user to remember what numbers are in use and what they do. Even when recalling a setup, it's cumbersome to scroll through the numbers to see the setup names.
I really like the alphabetized list you get with an HP8920, but I have several other instruments from Anritsu, Agilent, Advantest and Tektronics that store files. They all have some sort of listing capability.
I also like the way file saving works with the Agilent ESA-E spectrum analyzer. You set up what the current operation is going to be [store screen, store setup] . Then, when you push the front panel "SAVE" button [as opposed to going down through the file menu tree], the machine will instantly store the designated file type with a sequential number to the current location [internal / floppy] - like: STATE005. Later, you can go back and rename the file if you want to.
Every machine has a different user interface, but the easier you make it for us, the better we like it - especially if we don't have to dig out the book because we are STUCK.
Anyway, it's not a show stopper for me [your guys dropped in today and left with a P.O.]
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give us some sort of file operations capability. When you go to save a setup on the 2975 it's up to the user to remember what numbers are in use and what they do. Even when recalling a setup, it's cumbersome to scroll through the numbers to see the setup names.
I really like the alphabetized list you get with an HP8920, but I have several other instruments from Anritsu, Agilent, Advantest and Tektronics that store files. They all have some sort of listing capability.
I also like the way file saving works with the Agilent ESA-E spectrum analyzer. You set up what the current operation is going to be [store screen, store setup] . Then, when you push the front panel "SAVE" button [as opposed to going down through the file menu tree], the machine will instantly store the designated file type with a sequential number to the current location [internal / floppy] - like: STATE005. Later, you can go back and rename the file if you want to.
Every machine has a different user interface, but the easier you make it for us, the better we like it - especially if we don't have to dig out the book because we are STUCK.
Anyway, it's not a show stopper for me [your guys dropped in today and left with a P.O.]
-
George
- Posts: 266
- Joined: Wed Apr 16, 2003 11:14 am
- What radios do you own?: X9000, HT1550XLS, MTS2000, etc
I had to add my input to the service monitor discussion...
I have a 2600 and a pair of 2001D's. I have had 2001 series monitor from the A model on up and have done most repairs from the crappy Magnavox CRTS being changed to Telefunkens all the way to I can't tell you what.
With that resume in mind, I have to say I would have my 2001 D or even my 2001 B model over the 2600. I won't speak about the H/P, IFR products or others, but the problem I have with the 2600 is, well, maybe I am not using it right or there is an option I don't have set right, but if you have a frequency set, like 155.000 and your transmitter is putting out fifty watts on 154.000, the wattmeter doesn't show it. It's like the wattmeter is frequency selective, like an old Rycom unit. Mine only shows power with about 20 db of attenuation and with the receiver set to the proper frequency.
Is this the way it's supposed to work?
Also, I really dislike the amount of delay in the CRT for the spectrum analyzer function. The 2001/a/b/c/d is much faster in updating.
Also, less keystrokes are required to do something in a 2001 than in a 2600. Too much diddling around between areas on the screen.
When I have a choice, and I make the test equipment decisions, I will pick a 2001-D.
Yes, the 2600 has lots of nice functions that the 2001 does not, but still for the fuctions I do, the 2001 is best.
George
I have a 2600 and a pair of 2001D's. I have had 2001 series monitor from the A model on up and have done most repairs from the crappy Magnavox CRTS being changed to Telefunkens all the way to I can't tell you what.
With that resume in mind, I have to say I would have my 2001 D or even my 2001 B model over the 2600. I won't speak about the H/P, IFR products or others, but the problem I have with the 2600 is, well, maybe I am not using it right or there is an option I don't have set right, but if you have a frequency set, like 155.000 and your transmitter is putting out fifty watts on 154.000, the wattmeter doesn't show it. It's like the wattmeter is frequency selective, like an old Rycom unit. Mine only shows power with about 20 db of attenuation and with the receiver set to the proper frequency.
Is this the way it's supposed to work?
Also, I really dislike the amount of delay in the CRT for the spectrum analyzer function. The 2001/a/b/c/d is much faster in updating.
Also, less keystrokes are required to do something in a 2001 than in a 2600. Too much diddling around between areas on the screen.
When I have a choice, and I make the test equipment decisions, I will pick a 2001-D.
Yes, the 2600 has lots of nice functions that the 2001 does not, but still for the fuctions I do, the 2001 is best.
George
"...I have to say I would have my 2001 D or even my 2001 B model over the 2600..."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2001D is really the last high-tier monitor Motorola made. The 2600 basically has the same mid-tier Rf as the 2200/2400 series.
When Motorola came out with the first 2001A they told everybody how much ergonomic research went into the control placement and it shows. The 2001 is one of the easiest units there is to use. If you want to adjust something you just reach for the knob and adjust it!
When they came out with the 2600 - I thought it was very impressive looking. After playing with it - I found that I didn't like the user interface - all that jumping from zone to zone.
Back when the 2600 was new you also could still buy the 2001D new. One day I had a sales guy come to me and want to "borrow" my 2001D. It seems he had a customer that was going to buy several monitors and they couldn't decide between the 2001D and the 2600. The test equipment rep was bringing a new 2600 so I said if my 2001D was going anywhere I was going with it.
The test equipment sales guy showed up and I set up my 2001D along side his 2600. Then the customer said "make it do such & so". A couple button pushes and the 2001D was there. Five minutes later the sales guy was still trying to find it through the menus. Next the customer said "make it dial DTMF" - no problem with the 2001D push the two arrow keys - special function 16 - bam -you're there - live DTMF dialing. I don't think the sales guy ever figured out how to get the 2600 to do DTMF at all...
Oh, the customer? Bought 2001D's!
My 2001D is my go-to on bench monitor [the same one - I bought it from M when I left]
Of course the 2600 is still a pretty face and a competent performer - and unlike spouses - you aren't limited to just one service monitor!
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
The 2001D is really the last high-tier monitor Motorola made. The 2600 basically has the same mid-tier Rf as the 2200/2400 series.
When Motorola came out with the first 2001A they told everybody how much ergonomic research went into the control placement and it shows. The 2001 is one of the easiest units there is to use. If you want to adjust something you just reach for the knob and adjust it!
When they came out with the 2600 - I thought it was very impressive looking. After playing with it - I found that I didn't like the user interface - all that jumping from zone to zone.
Back when the 2600 was new you also could still buy the 2001D new. One day I had a sales guy come to me and want to "borrow" my 2001D. It seems he had a customer that was going to buy several monitors and they couldn't decide between the 2001D and the 2600. The test equipment rep was bringing a new 2600 so I said if my 2001D was going anywhere I was going with it.
The test equipment sales guy showed up and I set up my 2001D along side his 2600. Then the customer said "make it do such & so". A couple button pushes and the 2001D was there. Five minutes later the sales guy was still trying to find it through the menus. Next the customer said "make it dial DTMF" - no problem with the 2001D push the two arrow keys - special function 16 - bam -you're there - live DTMF dialing. I don't think the sales guy ever figured out how to get the 2600 to do DTMF at all...
Oh, the customer? Bought 2001D's!
My 2001D is my go-to on bench monitor [the same one - I bought it from M when I left]
Of course the 2600 is still a pretty face and a competent performer - and unlike spouses - you aren't limited to just one service monitor!
hmmm.
well, besides the fact that i pray to god my CRT lasts for a LOOONG time, i will probably keep my 2012/d until it absolutely will not work with anything anymore. (yes monty, i keep it DIM DIM DIM indoors)
like about 2018 when everyone is supposed to be "narrow band" or something.... or maybe 2030 when analog voice is gone (except on 2m...440 will be a commercial band by then... no way hams will keep 30 Mhz of UHF for that long)
anyway, the 2012/d does more crap than i will probably ever understand.
some of the SPF stuff is flat out over my head (now anyway)
the secure stuff still boggles me a little, but i can make it work.
thanks to bernie i'll probably be shipping it to hawaii for a calibration here in a bit
for the tinkerer - i would like to look into replacing the CRT with some kind of LCD driver.... but i need to do some research on exactly HOW the CRT is interfaced to the logic of the monitor.
and for the comments on the R2600 - i absolutely agree... the menu system SUCKS. that's why i sold the one that i bought. it was nice, especially the "see & hear" spectrum analyzer... but way too time consuming to do practical work.
the only thing i think i'll miss with the 2001/d (series) is that the jackasses at motorola never thought to add a tracking generator to the damn thing.
so (at least for me) ... tuning duplexers is best done with a separate sig gen and the 2001/d as a spectrum analyzer
doug
like about 2018 when everyone is supposed to be "narrow band" or something.... or maybe 2030 when analog voice is gone (except on 2m...440 will be a commercial band by then... no way hams will keep 30 Mhz of UHF for that long)
anyway, the 2012/d does more crap than i will probably ever understand.
some of the SPF stuff is flat out over my head (now anyway)
the secure stuff still boggles me a little, but i can make it work.
thanks to bernie i'll probably be shipping it to hawaii for a calibration here in a bit
for the tinkerer - i would like to look into replacing the CRT with some kind of LCD driver.... but i need to do some research on exactly HOW the CRT is interfaced to the logic of the monitor.
and for the comments on the R2600 - i absolutely agree... the menu system SUCKS. that's why i sold the one that i bought. it was nice, especially the "see & hear" spectrum analyzer... but way too time consuming to do practical work.
the only thing i think i'll miss with the 2001/d (series) is that the jackasses at motorola never thought to add a tracking generator to the damn thing.
so (at least for me) ... tuning duplexers is best done with a separate sig gen and the 2001/d as a spectrum analyzer
doug
-
ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
Supposedly, GD (ex-Motorola) is finally coming out with a notebook sized service monitor sometime in 4Q03. There is supposed to be an FM version, as well as a high end ASTRO25 version. All standard options are supposed to be available, such as encryption, extra hi stability, wide range spectrum analyzer, etc. Land mobile and cellular versions. The display is like the newer Tektronix scopes. Sounds nice, and very portable. Don't mistake this for their current capability to interface a Windows laptop to a blackbox, such as the various GD cellular monitor/test stations. This is supposed to be a dedicated service monitor instrument, again similar to the Tektronix newer scopes that have an LCD display, and dedicated electronics, all contained in a rugged and sealed plastic/fiberglass case. The heat sink (associated with the internal 50 ohm termination load) is supposed to be good for 100 watts, and runs along the bottom of the service monitor case. This heat sink is probably the heaviest/biggest part of the new service monitor. AC and DC operation, plus built-in, removable, and rechargable batteries. There were some good jpegs running around on this. I will forward these to Monty for posting, if I can find them.
Larry
Larry
"the only thing i think i'll miss with the 2001/d (series) is that the jackasses at motorola never thought to add a tracking generator to the damn thing. "
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Undocumented feature!
It DOES have a tracking generator. [It just doesn't work very well.] There is too much leakage to get high dynamic range and too much phase noise to align notch filters, but you can look at pass cavities!
Just set your duplex offset to zero. Then - while you are in spectrum analyzer - turn on the duplex generate switch. RF comes out the duplex gen port. The RF I/O port will probably give you a flatter display than the Antenna port.
Rudimentary but useful none the less.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Undocumented feature!
It DOES have a tracking generator. [It just doesn't work very well.] There is too much leakage to get high dynamic range and too much phase noise to align notch filters, but you can look at pass cavities!
Just set your duplex offset to zero. Then - while you are in spectrum analyzer - turn on the duplex generate switch. RF comes out the duplex gen port. The RF I/O port will probably give you a flatter display than the Antenna port.
Rudimentary but useful none the less.
I used to work at the Motorola Test Equipment Service Depot. I started there when the old S1327 monitor was THE instrument. In fact, I even trained Bernie on some of the equipment. I guess it's time to clear up some issues on the R2001D/R2600A arguments.
1) The R2000 CRT is no longer available. WRONG! Motorola part number RPX4270A - almost $1400 (ouch) but STILL available. Replacement cost of the CRT when serviced at the depot is $1200.
2) The wattmeter on the R2600 won't read unless on frequency, is this how it's supposed to work? YES! The wattmeter is frequency selective to give better accuracy throughout the spectrum.
3) Why didn't Motorola put a tracking generator into the 2000D series? Lack of memory space. Old technology. The R2000 series was based on the old 8 bit 6800 series microprcessor. At the time, it was more critical to get the trunking and secure comm options out. As it was, each option board required additional memory.
4) The 2000 spectrum analyzer is faster than the 2600. Apples and oranges. The 2000 series has an analog display, the 2600 has a digital display. Could they make it faster in the 2600? Probably but at how much addition cost to you? Don't forget, the R2001DHS sold for $19,500 when it was king. The R2600 starts at less than $12,000.
5) The user interfaces are different. THIS is a complaint that I have heard every time there has been a MAJOR change in test equipment. When the R1200 replaced the S1327, we had complaints because the three button attenuator was replaced with a rotory switch type. When the R2001A replaced the R1200, the complaint was that the thumbwheels were replaced by a keypad. So yes, the interfaces are different. When the R2600 series is replaced by whatever its replacement will be, I guaranty there will be complaints that the new one doesn't do this or that like the R2600 did.
Thanks for allowing me to explain (&vent a little).
1) The R2000 CRT is no longer available. WRONG! Motorola part number RPX4270A - almost $1400 (ouch) but STILL available. Replacement cost of the CRT when serviced at the depot is $1200.
2) The wattmeter on the R2600 won't read unless on frequency, is this how it's supposed to work? YES! The wattmeter is frequency selective to give better accuracy throughout the spectrum.
3) Why didn't Motorola put a tracking generator into the 2000D series? Lack of memory space. Old technology. The R2000 series was based on the old 8 bit 6800 series microprcessor. At the time, it was more critical to get the trunking and secure comm options out. As it was, each option board required additional memory.
4) The 2000 spectrum analyzer is faster than the 2600. Apples and oranges. The 2000 series has an analog display, the 2600 has a digital display. Could they make it faster in the 2600? Probably but at how much addition cost to you? Don't forget, the R2001DHS sold for $19,500 when it was king. The R2600 starts at less than $12,000.
5) The user interfaces are different. THIS is a complaint that I have heard every time there has been a MAJOR change in test equipment. When the R1200 replaced the S1327, we had complaints because the three button attenuator was replaced with a rotory switch type. When the R2001A replaced the R1200, the complaint was that the thumbwheels were replaced by a keypad. So yes, the interfaces are different. When the R2600 series is replaced by whatever its replacement will be, I guaranty there will be complaints that the new one doesn't do this or that like the R2600 did.
Thanks for allowing me to explain (&vent a little).
Dave
You do realize that as you scroll through the numbers, we show the text field of the setup - that's how you can tell if it is in use or not.xmo wrote:"How would you suggest making saving setups less complicated?"
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Give us some sort of file operations capability. When you go to save a setup on the 2975 it's up to the user to remember what numbers are in use and what they do. Even when recalling a setup, it's cumbersome to scroll through the numbers to see the setup names.
If we had a dedicated "SAVE" button I would agree. However, we don't - so you would still have to go through the mode menu.xmo wrote: I also like the way file saving works with the Agilent ESA-E spectrum analyzer. You set up what the current operation is going to be [store screen, store setup] . Then, when you push the front panel "SAVE" button [as opposed to going down through the file menu tree], the machine will instantly store the designated file type with a sequential number to the current location [internal / floppy] - like: STATE005. Later, you can go back and rename the file if you want to.
That's why we have the HELP button, and the HTML based help system - if you get stuck you can use that. If there are areas of the help you don't feel are up to snuff, please send me or Rob an email with your suggestions, and we'll put them in.xmo wrote: Every machine has a different user interface, but the easier you make it for us, the better we like it - especially if we don't have to dig out the book because we are STUCK.
This is my opinion, not Aeroflex's.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
Wow,
I am using revision 1.7.0. And what I meant by my lists aren't working is that,every time I load a list and go to save it, it "drops" some of the channels. One time it might only save the odd numbered channels, another it might only save every 3rd channel, etc. Also, when I go to "list" in the duplex mode? As I scroll through the channel #s in the list, only the "rcv" side of the duplex screen actually changes frequency. The generator side stays at whatever frequency it is currently at. I have had no serious problems with this monitor until this last upgrade. I do think that the AF counter is kind of slow, when selected to DEMOD. And the Deviation "meter" gives me some trouble sometimes. ( I think it just takes a while to compute the deviation as well) All in all, I think it is a great monitor, I just have some issues with it. I am trying to talk the powers that be into getting some training on it, so that I can be sure that I am not just operating it incorrectly, but that means spending money, and we all know what a slow process that can be.
I am using revision 1.7.0. And what I meant by my lists aren't working is that,every time I load a list and go to save it, it "drops" some of the channels. One time it might only save the odd numbered channels, another it might only save every 3rd channel, etc. Also, when I go to "list" in the duplex mode? As I scroll through the channel #s in the list, only the "rcv" side of the duplex screen actually changes frequency. The generator side stays at whatever frequency it is currently at. I have had no serious problems with this monitor until this last upgrade. I do think that the AF counter is kind of slow, when selected to DEMOD. And the Deviation "meter" gives me some trouble sometimes. ( I think it just takes a while to compute the deviation as well) All in all, I think it is a great monitor, I just have some issues with it. I am trying to talk the powers that be into getting some training on it, so that I can be sure that I am not just operating it incorrectly, but that means spending money, and we all know what a slow process that can be.
My two bits worth:
1) I agree with most everything said so far about the various models of test equipment. Unfortunately, most repair parts seem to be no longer available for the R2001 series, such as feet, or exchange boards.
2) The R2600 (I have an R2600B, which Ray F. at test equipment just overhauled for me.)
Providing that you have never used any other kind of monitor the R2600 is fine. It just requires very much button pushing, and remembering exactly where what function is hidden at what location.
The tracking generator: as long as you don't mind a 5DB ripple@ 5 meg on the trace it works fine. That is at a wide span, such as one would use for a site preselector, there is a saw tooth wave on the trace. I think this has to do with how the unit is swept.
I have used the RF detector probe with the R2001, and with a little experimentation, it works well enough to get most jobs done.
On the other hand the little bugger is very accurate, and stable.
It is also much easier for me to lug up stairs when I go in the field.
Unfortunately, it is very hard to repair in the field, which is why I am $1225 poorer.
3) Speaking of R2001D, I very badly need an A-5 board (power supply output) I have a "cherry" unit some one gave me, but the A-5 is missing.
Finally, HI & Aloha to DJP-120, I was wondering when we were going to hear from someone from test equipment. Please e mail [email protected]
1) I agree with most everything said so far about the various models of test equipment. Unfortunately, most repair parts seem to be no longer available for the R2001 series, such as feet, or exchange boards.
2) The R2600 (I have an R2600B, which Ray F. at test equipment just overhauled for me.)
Providing that you have never used any other kind of monitor the R2600 is fine. It just requires very much button pushing, and remembering exactly where what function is hidden at what location.
The tracking generator: as long as you don't mind a 5DB ripple@ 5 meg on the trace it works fine. That is at a wide span, such as one would use for a site preselector, there is a saw tooth wave on the trace. I think this has to do with how the unit is swept.
I have used the RF detector probe with the R2001, and with a little experimentation, it works well enough to get most jobs done.
On the other hand the little bugger is very accurate, and stable.
It is also much easier for me to lug up stairs when I go in the field.
Unfortunately, it is very hard to repair in the field, which is why I am $1225 poorer.
3) Speaking of R2001D, I very badly need an A-5 board (power supply output) I have a "cherry" unit some one gave me, but the A-5 is missing.
Finally, HI & Aloha to DJP-120, I was wondering when we were going to hear from someone from test equipment. Please e mail [email protected]
Aloha, Bernie
OK, nobody has reported that. Please contact me directly here at IFR (david.hagood@), and I'll tell you how to send me the info I need to troubleshoot this.kmoose wrote: I am using revision 1.7.0. And what I meant by my lists aren't working is that,every time I load a list and go to save it, it "drops" some of the channels. One time it might only save the odd numbered channels, another it might only save every 3rd channel, etc.
That is a known issue (bug #1420, to be precise). It is scheduled to be fixed this next release (1.8.0). I cannot give you a release date as I am still haggling with the marketing guys over what new features MUST go into this release vs. being slipped.kmoose wrote: Also, when I go to "list" in the duplex mode? As I scroll through the channel #s in the list, only the "rcv" side of the duplex screen actually changes frequency. The generator side stays at whatever frequency it is currently at.
Again, could you give me a bit more quantitative explaination? The AF counter updates 10 times a second no matter what the input source is, unless the measured frequency is so low that we have to change algorithms to get a better reading.kmoose wrote: I do think that the AF counter is kind of slow, when selected to DEMOD.
Again, I'd like a chance to talk to you about this (since this is a bit off-topic for this particular thread).kmoose wrote: And the Deviation "meter" gives me some trouble sometimes.
This is my opinion, not Aeroflex's.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
My two bits worth:
I fat fingered my address.
It is: [email protected]
Yes, indeed DJP126. You have been my mentor since the days of the S1327A. You have put up with my questions for the last 25 years or so.
I fat fingered my address.
It is: [email protected]
Yes, indeed DJP126. You have been my mentor since the days of the S1327A. You have put up with my questions for the last 25 years or so.
Aloha, Bernie
DJP126 is the man
I concur....I've known DJP126 since about 1980. When it comes to Motorola service monitors...He IS the expert. If he doesn't know (which is rare) he will find out AND the answer will be accurate and the best solution. Hats off to D for many years of help with Motorola Service Monitors.........
2000 series video interface.
Hello.
The strong point of the 2000 series is the video interface, there is nothing special about it whatsoever.
To interface to computer monitor is very easy to do, as the video chip is industry standard.
The only problem is the CRT, it is a vacuum tube, with all the drawbacks.
Pull the covers, look at the telefunken unit, you will see, it is a monitor all it's own, mounted with a small chassis.
I do hope the 2000 units are not scrapped, as adding a display is so easy, but hope I can get one cheap.
The strong point of the 2000 series is the video interface, there is nothing special about it whatsoever.
To interface to computer monitor is very easy to do, as the video chip is industry standard.
The only problem is the CRT, it is a vacuum tube, with all the drawbacks.
Pull the covers, look at the telefunken unit, you will see, it is a monitor all it's own, mounted with a small chassis.
I do hope the 2000 units are not scrapped, as adding a display is so easy, but hope I can get one cheap.
"Supposedly, GD (ex-Motorola) is finally coming out with a notebook sized service monitor sometime in 4Q03..."
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I am about to issue a P.O. for a new 2670, this rumour was certainly interesting. Who would want to buy something and immediately find out that you could have waited for a brand new model?
Accordingly, I posed this question to G.D.
They deny it formally and in writing.
So... If anyone else was thinking about holding off your service monitor purchase pending release of this new product - forget it - it DOES NOT EXIST.
For P25 testing - there are still just two choices - R2670 & IFR2975.
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Since I am about to issue a P.O. for a new 2670, this rumour was certainly interesting. Who would want to buy something and immediately find out that you could have waited for a brand new model?
Accordingly, I posed this question to G.D.
They deny it formally and in writing.
So... If anyone else was thinking about holding off your service monitor purchase pending release of this new product - forget it - it DOES NOT EXIST.
For P25 testing - there are still just two choices - R2670 & IFR2975.
After a day of many emails back and forth, I just feel compelled to add this to this thread: Thanks, Wowbagger, for all your assistance. For those of you with IFR 2975 Monitors........Wowbagger is an excellent resource for you. His replies to my questions were absolutely professional and knowledgable. I solved most of my "issues" with the thing, and it was mostly just my ignorance of how to operate it correctly. Never once did Wowbagger lose patience, nor seem the least bit "put out" by what must have been, to him, some rather elementary questions. Thanks again, David!!
Aww great...
Aww great. Now I'm gonna get flooded. I'll never get 1.8.0 ready to release!
Seriously - that's part of the job. All the features in the world, all the accuracy, all the speed mean nothing if you cannot figure out how to use it. By getting good feedback, we can improve the product. All I ask is that if you have a problem, let IFR/Aeroflex know so that it can be fixed.
Seriously - that's part of the job. All the features in the world, all the accuracy, all the speed mean nothing if you cannot figure out how to use it. By getting good feedback, we can improve the product. All I ask is that if you have a problem, let IFR/Aeroflex know so that it can be fixed.
This is my opinion, not Aeroflex's.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
A friend has an S1327A, and asked me to fix it. In a previous life I was an analog circuit designer at Tektronix so he figured it was no problem. I couldn't fix the S1327A, too much of the ancient ECL was destroyed and is not available. I did fix the original power supply problem though.
Anyway, for my business I needed a new service monitor so I looked at the IFR2944 and the GD2590. I got the 2590 and though it has it's warts it has proven very reliable, and very easy to drive. I found the IFR menu system almost impenetrable. Of course the IFR2944 is really a Marconi so we can't blame IFR(!)
For used units I would look at the HP8920B.
Anyway, for my business I needed a new service monitor so I looked at the IFR2944 and the GD2590. I got the 2590 and though it has it's warts it has proven very reliable, and very easy to drive. I found the IFR menu system almost impenetrable. Of course the IFR2944 is really a Marconi so we can't blame IFR(!)
For used units I would look at the HP8920B.
-
ASTROMODAT
- Posts: 1825
- Joined: Tue Nov 05, 2002 12:32 am
US Dept of Interior Found Problems w/ R 2670B
R2670B Communications System Analyzer
Accepted with deficiencies
Issues noted:
1. The unit would intermittently fail to decode digital voice frame information or decode digital audio. The unit would have to be powered down and back on to clear this condition.
2. No reverse polarity protection for external DC input is provided.
3. The unit would not test for proper radio keypad operation for digital signaling (equivalent to DTMF in analog mode).
4. The unit does not display OTAR and mobile data handshake packets.
Number 3 is a biggie.
FYI.
Larry
Accepted with deficiencies
Issues noted:
1. The unit would intermittently fail to decode digital voice frame information or decode digital audio. The unit would have to be powered down and back on to clear this condition.
2. No reverse polarity protection for external DC input is provided.
3. The unit would not test for proper radio keypad operation for digital signaling (equivalent to DTMF in analog mode).
4. The unit does not display OTAR and mobile data handshake packets.
Number 3 is a biggie.
FYI.
Larry
In fairness to GD
In fairness to GD, the USDOI document you quoted ripped just about everybody a new one. The guy who prepared the report was charged with finding the problems in ALL APCO-25 gear, and he did his job well.
He even had a few bad things to say about us - although we were already aware of many of them and corrected them in the current release (or are correcting them in current development.)
He even had a few bad things to say about us - although we were already aware of many of them and corrected them in the current release (or are correcting them in current development.)
This is my opinion, not Aeroflex's.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
I WILL NOT give you proprietary information. I make too much money to jeopardize my job.
I AM NOT the Service department: You want official info, manuals, service info, parts, calibration, etc., contact Aeroflex directly, please.
In fairness to GD, here is what the USDOI had to say about the 2975.
http://www.blm.gov/natacq/IDIQ/radio_plans.html
IFR
IFR 2975 Communications Test Set
Accepted with deficiencies
Issues noted:
1. Need bar graphs to indicate position of volume and squelch settings.
2. Off air monitoring not possible due to poor receiver sensitivity.
3. The unit will not allow the entry of the hexadecimal characters A thru F from the front panel, when entering talkgroup or source IDs.
4. The unit would not test for proper radio keypad operation for digital signaling (equivalent to DTMF in analog mode).
5. Several times during the course of testing, the unit would not boot-up when first power-up. After several attempts to boot the unit, usually over a 30 minute period, the unit would usually boot-up. This is very frustrating when using the unit in the shop environment, but completely unacceptable for field operation.
6. The unit does not display OTAR and mobile data handshake packets.
Will number 2 be fixed in the next release?
http://www.blm.gov/natacq/IDIQ/radio_plans.html
IFR
IFR 2975 Communications Test Set
Accepted with deficiencies
Issues noted:
1. Need bar graphs to indicate position of volume and squelch settings.
2. Off air monitoring not possible due to poor receiver sensitivity.
3. The unit will not allow the entry of the hexadecimal characters A thru F from the front panel, when entering talkgroup or source IDs.
4. The unit would not test for proper radio keypad operation for digital signaling (equivalent to DTMF in analog mode).
5. Several times during the course of testing, the unit would not boot-up when first power-up. After several attempts to boot the unit, usually over a 30 minute period, the unit would usually boot-up. This is very frustrating when using the unit in the shop environment, but completely unacceptable for field operation.
6. The unit does not display OTAR and mobile data handshake packets.
Will number 2 be fixed in the next release?
re: LCD?
Hey, throw me and my R2001D/HS on the pile for wanting a set of instructions to install a "video out" port or similar video change that would be great for bench use... and unlimited "on" time. I forever more leave the thing on and forget about it, since the display is turned down every time I'm not doing a reading.
Thanks!
Thanks!
•·•·•
Woody
---Please use the EMAIL button, not PM, tnx!---
Woody
---Please use the EMAIL button, not PM, tnx!---