T3011DX KVL Does Not Support DES-OFB on UCM

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 5:55 pm

Found out today that one really does need the KVL 3000 Plus!

Since the UCM now replaces virtually all previous encryption boards, it is interesting (and sad) to note that the T3011DX will not talk to a UCM, even in the case where you are simply replacing a bad DES-OFB board with its replacement---the UCM. Turns out that any flavor of UCM needs the KVL 3000 Plus. Even the older KVL 3000 will not work, let alone the T3011DX, fort DES-OFB on the UCM (even if you never use AES).

I was under the impression that the KVL 3000 Plus was only necessary to support the AES mode on the UCM. I found out from Motorola today that any flavor of encryption on the UCM board (including DES-OFB) must have the KVL 3000 Plus for code key insertion (and you must have the Plus series with the 3Q02 latest firmware) to work. So, even if you just are doing a Mtce swap out, if you use the UCM 9and you have to unless yoiu can find an old DES-OFB board), you must buy a KVL 3000 Plus, and they ain't cheap. I suppose the eBay price for a T3011DX now goes to almost zero. Now, how can we hire that Mktg GENIUS from the Big M?! Oh well, it's just money...

Larry

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 7:22 pm

Whats the actual part # for this?

XDCLabs.COM · Post by **XDCLabs.COM** » Mon Jan 13, 2003 9:30 pm

Did they mention which version? I know for a fact that certain versions of UCM will support DX KVLs. The UCMs can keyload in 2 modes. The old mode is called ASN mode. The new mode is APCO mode and the keys can only be used when CKR key management is turned on in RSS. You need fairly new firmware for this. Did I loose anyone...?

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 1:44 am

They said if you need to operate in DES-OFB P25 IMBE and you have the UCM you need the KVL 3000 Plus. I was surprised that the KVL 3000 will not work either.

Larry

XDCLabs.COM · Post by **XDCLabs.COM** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:16 am

Something sounds fishy. I have used UCMs in DES-OFB mode with a Dx KVL. The UCMs were version 3.x. I believe the newer UCMs are version 4.x. BTW, all modules that are version 3.x or greater are UCM based. Universal Crypto Module.

Post by Pj » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:11 am

We just received 30 Astro radios from the factory with DVP-XL modules in them...would these contain UCM modules? We were told we would not have to replace our DX loader.

XDCLabs.COM · Post by **XDCLabs.COM** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:32 am

If the EMC version is 3.x or greater, then it's a UCM. To the best of my knowledge, these are compatible with DX KVLs and don't force you to use CKR key management. M is usually pretty good about backwards compatibility. They take great pains to make sure older equipment and features still work. But they may have made an internal decision to discontinue PID based ASN key management and steer customers towards the newer CKR based key management in order to keep dev and maintenance costs down.

See whether they accept keys and actually rx/tx in secure mode with a DX KVL.

ScannerDan · Post by **ScannerDan** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 7:13 am

XDCLabs.COM wrote:If the EMC version is 3.x or greater, then it's a UCM. To the best of my knowledge, these are compatible with DX KVLs and don't force you to use CKR key management.
See whether they accept keys and actually rx/tx in secure mode with a DX KVL.

My Agency has the Astro Saber and Astro Spectra with a ECM version of "R03.43" and I can tell you that the T3011DX will load code with out any problems.

Dan...

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 9:50 am

The context of my discussions involved the most current Host/DSP in the XTS 3000 and ASTRO Spectra mobiles (I'm going to have them upgraded---Ouch!) and then the current UCM running AES and DES-OFB (replacing our existing DES-CFB in these radios). They told me I will need the KVL 3000 Plus, although we have many KVL T3011DX new in the box and several that we've hardly used, so it was not great news. I asked about the case where for a short time we may need just DES-OFB and would we need the 3000 Plus for that and we werer told Yes.

Larry

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 2:47 pm

Not an option. In competing for copter air support contracts, it is becoming increasingly necessary to be AES capable, or you are not even allowed to submit the bid (it gets rejected outright as Non Qualifierd). I didn't make the rules, it's just reality. I wasn't kidding when I mentioned how fast this thing is moving.

larry

mike m · Post by **mike m** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 3:43 pm

I just loaded up a bunch of brand new, just came in yesterday, VHF xts3000s today with the UCM (EMC 3.53) and they loaded ok and OTAR'd fine with my T3011DX KVL and they talked to each other just fine.

Mike

ASTROMODAT · Post by **ASTROMODAT** » Tue Jan 14, 2003 4:05 pm

Do these radios that work have the UCM that includes AES and DES-OFB algorythms, even though you may not currently be using AES?!

XDCLabs.COM · Post by **XDCLabs.COM** » Wed Jan 15, 2003 9:28 pm

ScannerDan wrote:My Agency has the Astro Saber and Astro Spectra with a ECM version of "R03.43" and I can tell you that the T3011DX will load code with out any problems.

Dan...

It will load just fine with a DX KVL.

T3011DX KVL Does Not Support DES-OFB on UCM

T3011DX KVL Does Not Support DES-OFB on UCM

KVL3K+