smartzone interesting hack idea question

wazzzzzzzzup · Post by **wazzzzzzzzup** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 1:00 am

ok fellas, i was sitting back at the shop thinking of a few things the county radio tech told me and also about what i am seeing with a new 900 private smartzone system, heres my 2 thoughts coming together and see what you all think is possible........

the county system is a multisite smartzone 800 system
the county tech told me that he has problems with east county sheriffs that live in the west site area, leave for work from home and turn thier radios on while in the west zone, cause the system to then rebroadcast thier dispatch channels on the east onto the west system for 4 hours, thus tieing up a west site channel every time east dispatch keys up.

my thought is this, ok this 900 smartzone system has about 8 sites scattered around 17 countys. my thought is this, say that a truck from county a in the south end travells to the north end, 17 countys away, and keys up his radio, the system wiuld then, rebroadcast his south dispatch up to the north end for 4 hours......

lett me wrap this up, say you live in the north end, and want to use a moto radio as a scanner, knowing it will affilliate when you turn it on, whats to say that if you knew a south county unit id, and had it in your motorola scanner, that when the moto scanner turns on, then affilliates BINGO!, the system thinks its got a south county unit in the north end, and start rebroadcasting the south channel that you want to hear, 4 hours at a time.

in theory i think this is possible, but in reality of course its not possible unless someone had the approval of the system owner and have them set it up

what do you think?
wazz

Post by **wavetar** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:17 am

What's with the '4 hours'? Is that how long the system waits before sending a request for the radios to re-affiliate? Could be, I know it does it, but never heard of an exact time.

As far as the tech's problem, it shouldn't be happening. The radios will re-affiliate with whatever tower they roam to while they travel from the 'west' to the 'east'. The towers which were being keyed will no longer be keyed the moment the radios switch sites. That's how SmartZone is supposed to work. Otherwise you have a glorified Simulcast system.

The problem with your scanning scenario is this: If you have a 'south' ID in your radio, and you allow it to affiliate, the 'legit' radio will be booted off the system, until the user attempts to transmit or changes channels. The system will in turn allow his radio to re-affiliate & subsequently boot your radio from the system, and cease sending audio to your 'north' site. So, by using a legit ID, you are interfering with the user on the system, causing him to need multiple re-tries to transmit on the system. As well as possibly missing audio altogether, depending on whether or not he's the only radio affiliated to his particular site on that talkgroup. Do it enough, and the system admins will start looking for you, which nobody wants.

So, that's the main reason one tries everything possible NOT to affiliate on the systems.

Todd

RKG · Post by **RKG** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 4:50 am

In a SmartZone system, if we made all talkgroups valid in all "zones," we would be tying up voice repeaters to carry traffic that no one is listening to, and either run out of voice channels or run out of money buying enough repeaters. So for each zone, talkgroups can be programmed into one of three categories:

Home zone t/gs will be carried regardless of where the traffic originates.

S/Z talkgroups will be carried if, and only if, a radio has affiliated on this zone and has selected that t/g.

Non-S/Z talkgroups will never be carried.

As for the scenario you describe, as r0f says, it is designed to do exactly what someone is complaining about. If that is a problem (because it is tying up voice repeaters in the non=home zone and that is causing busy signals for local users), there are three solutions:

1. Re-designate the talkgroup so that it is valid only in the home zone.

2. Split the zones so that troopers only pull-in the S/Z talkgroup when closer to their home zones, but not when further from them.

3. Train guys not to listen to their radios until they get to some geographic location.

1 is probably not feasible, since the talkgroup was programmed as S/Z for a reason. 2 can get expensive. 3 will never work.

wazzzzzzzzup · Post by **wazzzzzzzzup** » Mon Jan 05, 2004 8:48 pm

wavetar - So, that's the main reason one tries everything possible NOT to affiliate on the systems.

i totally agree, that affiliation shoud be avoided at whatever means possible.
the thoughts on the 900 system are just thoughts, looks like it prob would cause problems, and nobody wants that, so it wont be pursued any further than the discussion.

you all have given me some interesting things to understand and some new questions to ask the admin, next time i cross paths with him, i will pass along the information about...... disabling the RID's at the site, but the units that are doing it are sheriffs and sheriffs have full county jurisdiction, even if they typically only patrol in the east or west of the county.

the 4 hour thing may sound unusual to some of you, as you have stated, but i know what i heard him say, it is possible then that the system is not fully smartzone, as it was once 3 separate systems, now recently tied together. so it might be, in some ways a "glorified simulcast" system at the moment, with the intention of bringing several more "NEW" sites on line in the next year you all have given me more information to quiz him on next time he stops by.

thanks
wazz

Twisted_Pear · Post by **Twisted_Pear** » Fri Jan 09, 2004 5:39 pm

The duration the controller waits for any communication from a subscriber radio before requesting it to affiliate is variable and, IIRC, is set by default to 24hrs. I don't see any reason for 4 hours being strange, if subs are roaming or leaving the coverage area a lot it is a good idea.

-Wayne