radios and the fcc

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 2:14 pm

going to go up into a remote area and use radios to communicate within a 3-5mile area max.

some are hams some are not

if we use the ham bands on portables is it really wrong if some arent hams?

probally use the radios within 3-5 hours tops

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 2:20 pm

it is very wrong. Those friends that are hams should know better.

What band are you guys going to use?
Why not use MURS VHF? Or FRS UHF?

Heck, better yet, why not have everyone in the group get the Tech Class Ham ticket. It's really not THAT hard to take.

Please, don't ask if it's okay to use a band that you are not entitled to. I think the answer is pretty obvious. It would really help everyone's blood pressure.

_________________
Jonathan KC8RYW
I'm voting Green in 2004! <a href="http://www.takethepledge.com/">www.take ... /a>

[ This Message was edited by: KC8RYW on 2002-03-31 17:24 ]

10-95 · Post by **10-95** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 2:56 pm

One of the nice perks of having a valid ham ticket is the large choice of simplex frequencys you can use for special events or just for talking around when you go to Disney land ! of course it is best to take the time and get a ticket.

Frank
AD4XE

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 7:56 pm

well they will also come in handy if they get lost. nothing like getting shot at and you slip down the ravine or fall into the hole and no one can hear you.

they'll probablky just use ham no one will be using them out here anyway.

always the govt trying to get their hands in what they can

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 8:19 pm

If you are using ham HT's in case of emergency, being unlicenced really doesn't matter. When a human life is at stake, the rules can be bent. I'm sure other hams and the FCC would cut you some major slack.

FYI: you can apply this rule to any radio service you can think of. If it helps save a human life in an emergency, then it can be justified.

However, rag-chewing with others in your group is an entirely differant situation altogether.

Contrary to popular belief, the FCC probably won't be the one listening in and waiting for you to operate illegally.

Your major threat when operating unlicenced in the ham bands will be other licenced hams scanning. The overwhelming majority of us hams don't want our service turing into CB.

I suggest that your group start saving up for some MURS HT's for next time.

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 8:50 pm

they would be Sabers anyway

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 9:15 pm

On 2002-03-31 23:50, Astro_Saber wrote:
they would be Sabers anyway

What band? VHF-Hi or UHF?

If they are VHF, then program in MURS.
If they are UHF, then program in FRS.

Use a DPL tone, to avoid kiddie radio interference.

Post by **HumHead** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 10:16 pm

Not that either of those options would be any more legal than unlicensed ham use anyway................

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Sun Mar 31, 2002 11:41 pm

On 2002-04-01 01:16, HumHead wrote:
Not that either of those options would be any more legal than unlicensed ham use anyway................

MURS might be legal, if the power is under 2 watts PEP. Part 90 (read: Saber) radios are approved for MURS (as long as they can put off 2 watts PEP or less.)

I suppose FRS is pushing it though. According to the FCC, we're supposed to have a un-removable antenna, and 500 mW ERP of power. And, an FRS type-approval. TalkAbout getting your signal nowhere

(pun intended.)

I'm pretty sure that the FCC won't cry because you used 5 watts on MURS, in the middle of nowhere.

This topic is becoming stale.

_________________
Jonathan KC8RYW
I'm voting Green in 2004! <a href="http://www.takethepledge.com/">www.take ... /a>

[ This Message was edited by: KC8RYW on 2002-04-01 02:43 ]

Tom in D.C. · Post by **Tom in D.C.** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 5:41 am

Two points:

1. MURS requires type-accepted equipment. You're not supposed to just set up a VHF HT for MURS, if you follow the rules, because for one thing MURS requires sliver-band deviation.

2. In an life-or-death emergency, anyone anywhere can use any radio on any channel. No rules have to be bent to do this.

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

P.S. I commend all of you guys who were quick to point out the legalities involved in this "situation." Contrary to commonly held belief, the FCC IS out there catching people. Not everyone by far, but enough of them to make one think twice before trying anything really dumb, with unlicensed amateur frequency operation being right up there with the dumbest. Read QST if you don't believe this is true.

April · Post by **April** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 2:59 pm

Any use on MURS requires narrow banded transmitters with nomore that 2.5khz deviation and max of two watts ERP.

§ 95.401 Radio Services
(f) The Multi-Use Radio Service (MURS) -- a private, two-way, short distance voice, data or image communications service for personal
or business activities of the general public. The rules for this service are contained in subpart J of this part.

§ 95.631 Emission types.
j) A MURS station may transmit any emission type as specified in § 90.207 of this chapter.

95.632 MURS transmitter frequencies.
(a) The MURS transmitter channel frequencies are: 151.820 MHz, 151.880 MHz 151.940 MHz 154.570 MHz 154.600 MHz.
(b) The authorized bandwidth is 11.25 kHz on frequencies 151.820 MHz, 151.880 MHz and
151.940 MHz.
The authorized bandwidth is 12.5 kHz on frequencies 154.570 and 154.600 kHz.
c) MURS transmitters must maintain a frequency stability of 5.0 ppm, or 2.0 ppm if designed to operate with a 6.25 kHz bandwidth.
§ 95.639 Maximum transmitter power.
(h) No MURS unit, under any condition of modulation, shall exceed 2 watts effective radiated power (ERP).

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:29 pm

as the saying goes.

we do what we want.

ever since the 90's the govt has been doing what they want anyways so we can too

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 7:30 pm

i mean the 80's

RFdude · Post by **RFdude** » Mon Apr 01, 2002 8:09 pm

Hmmm... It's exactly the old philosophical scenario:

"If a tree falls in the forest and there is nobody around does it make a sound?"

hycheng · Post by **hycheng** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 1:29 am

Astro,
Whats the point of asking if you've already decided what you are going to do ?
A better alternative might be getting GMRS license online from FCC (just pay and no exam) and then you can have 5W on the first 7 channels of FRS and use all the UHF Sabers you can carry.

10-95 · Post by **10-95** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 4:16 pm

Why did you ever get a ticket Astro_Saber???

Why not buy the radios and do what you want, that's what you seem to be saying???

You must be about 17 years old or so, am I right???

Astro_Saber · Post by **Astro_Saber** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 4:28 pm

we've had our run ins but you seem to never learn, but you act like your 10 from some of the PM's youve sent me

pmb1010 · Post by **pmb1010** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 5:02 pm

Contrary to popular belief, the rules of Part 97 (ham rules) apply to ONLY to part 97, and do not cross to other radio venues. For example, the statement "can use any frequency anywhere to summon help" (and I paraphrase, I don't know the exact wording) is *IN* Part 97. Therefore, what that means is a *HAM* may use any *HAM* frequency (a Tech could use HF for example) to summon help. That does NOT grant a ham to use public service frequencies to summon help. Now, with this said, would I? Darn right I would... I'd understand the consequences taken after the fact, as these transmissions would be illegal, and I'd understand that as such...

[ This Message was edited by: pmb1010 on 2002-04-02 20:09 ]

10-95 · Post by **10-95** » Tue Apr 02, 2002 6:18 pm

Hey , seen anyone trying to sell a Browning Golden eagle lately???

Frank Drake
HAM CALL: AD4XE

[ This Message was edited by: 10-95 on 2002-04-02 21:19 ]

RESCUE161 · Post by **RESCUE161** » Wed Apr 03, 2002 2:46 pm

LOL, I think that's what HAM radio is going to Frank...
God, I didn't know "Power hungry illegal CBers" still existed???
Where did this guy come from?
KE4FHH

mts2000des2 · Post by **mts2000des2** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 9:13 pm

On 2002-03-31 17:14, Astro_Saber wrote:
going to go up into a remote area and use radios to communicate within a 3-5mile area max.

some are hams some are not

if we use the ham bands on portables is it really wrong if some arent hams?

probally use the radios within 3-5 hours tops

What is wrong with using MURS radios? You can get a good three solid miles outdoors with a Motorola portable type accepted for this service? You wouldn't piss anyone off and you would be 100 percent legal.

Piracy on the ham bands is a bad thing. Especially if you are a ham, you should know better. One of the reasons the FCC is looking long and hard at getting rid of some of the service is because of the blatant abuses that go on, like the above, malicous interference, questionable radio traffic, etc. I could understand this maybe years ago, when we didn't have MURS, FRS and so many other license free and CHEAP radios out there, but in my mind there is no excuse.

No it is not the crime of the century. But wrong is wrong. And anyone who is a true member of the amateur service wouldn't even think twice. Just my two cents.