Astro and LAPD questions

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:03 pm

i got a Motorola Astro w/ a flashcode of 591008-4f1e00 and a model# of H04SDH9PW7AN

i know this can work on the LAPD system to listen... i was wondering if i needed any encryption keys to listen to them??

i would be greatful for any info that you all can provide...

THANKS

chad
[email protected]

[ This Message was edited by: chad_g69 on 2002-04-06 18:09 ]

10-95 · Post by **10-95** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:11 pm

I beleive they are now operating in Digital mode and you probably need to know exactly how the units are program,med to receive the Digital transmissions. Check out the Astro section of this site.

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 3:13 pm

also - do astro radios loose the encryption key if the battery is removed??

thanks again

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 5:34 pm

On 2002-04-06 19:29, r0f wrote:
On 2002-04-06 18:13, chad_g69 wrote:
also - do astro radios loose the encryption key if the battery is removed??

thanks again
That's dependant on the "Key Retention Time" in the RSS programming. You can set it for like 30 seconds, or infinite.

Don't think of listening to encrypted stuff. I had my residence raided only a few weeks ago for monitoring non-encrypted astro communications (Canada). I'm not sure how the police in LA would react to you monitoring anything that is secure. I'm sure it's illegal.

Shaun

How did they find out that you were listening?

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 6:50 pm

I spoke w/ a LAPD watch commander from VanNuys, CA - she stated the following:

-one can listen to broadcasts
-one CAN NOT use information in broadcasts to commit a crime, or to assist in any illigal activity
-one CAN NOT listed to broadcasts in any motor vehicle
-one CAN NOT discuss broadcasts heard with any one else
-one CAN NOT transmit on ANY LAPD channel at anytime for any reason

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 6:57 pm

ALSO: bearcat is comming out with a digital scanner (APCO25)
i think it is the BC250D (or BC300D)
-what is the LAPD going to do when these come out..

i was told that LAPD dispatch channels are digital, but ARE NOT encrypted. FCC states you can listen to anything, as long as you do not use the information to commit a crime, etc.. FCC states you CAN NOT de-scramble an encrypted transmission.

digital does not mean it is encrypted

techie · Post by **techie** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:08 pm

On 2002-04-06 21:50, chad_g69 wrote:
I spoke w/ a LAPD watch commander from VanNuys, CA - she stated the following:

-one can listen to broadcasts
-one CAN NOT use information in broadcasts to commit a crime, or to assist in any illigal activity
-one CAN NOT listed to broadcasts in any motor vehicle
-one CAN NOT discuss broadcasts heard with any one else
-one CAN NOT transmit on ANY LAPD channel at anytime for any reason

All true EXCEPT for the bit about not being allowed to listen in any motor vehicle.
Some states prohibit scanners in vehicles, but California is not one of them.

Also, you can discuss broadcasts, but not the specific contents. (ie; you can report that the police are working a hostage incident in the XXXX block of YYYY street, but not the specific activities that are taking place.)

The use of information obtained via monitoring to aid in the commission of a crime, or to avoid arrest or prosecution is a violation of California Penal Code section 636.5.

the rest are covered by FCC regs.
_________________
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[ This Message was edited by: techie on 2002-04-06 22:29 ]

Post by **Code3Response** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:20 pm

Techie... FYI - You CANNOT posess, whether on or off, a scanner in the city limits of Los Angeles while in a vehicle... it is a city ordinance. I know - strange, but true !

techie · Post by **techie** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:47 pm

Interesting.. I'm starting to wonder about the legal implications of banning scanners on a local level, since it is legal in the state as a whole.

I know I would challenge the ordinance if I were stopped while passing thru LA, since my scanner is permanantly installed (or will be once I get the console built), and is legal in the area in which I live (SF Bay area).

I also seem to recall some sort of FCC pre-emption for ham operators, based on some states trying to confiscate ham rigs with wideband RX, but I don't remember the details.

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 7:52 pm

Got my astro... i have RSS 8.5, and get a 'codeplug to new for this application', and i do not have LAB, or the older codeplug, that is needed for the workaround listed in the ASTRO section...

anyone have any ideas????

chad

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 8:02 pm

If you can come up with a codeplug for the SAME model radio and the SAME flashcode that can be read via Astro 8.5, you should be able to write it or clone it into the radio.

Your radio's flash code will ring alarm bells at Motorola's depot. Do not ever send that radio to the depot for service if you want to get it back. This is because it contains both OTACS and OTACR, and that pair of features is product specific for the 'old' LAPD system and no other. The radio has obviously been hacked by someone who wasn't particularly careful. That pair of features has never been installed by Motorola in any non-LAPD radios.

What are your firmware version numbers?
While your radio has the right options to monitor the current LAPD system, it won't work right if the radio's firmware hasn't been properly updated. We can tell if this has been done if you give the revisions.
Put the radio into self-test mode to find out what the HOST and DSP versions are, and post them.

Elroy

techie · Post by **techie** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 8:13 pm

There also appears to be a LA County ordinance prohibiting scanners in vehicles, although it contains an exemption for FCC licencees, provided that the sheriff is provided with the license plate of the exempted vehicle.

LA City's ordinance prohibits reception of official transmissions by LAPD, LAFD, or any law enforcement agency by a receiver located in or upon a vehicle, but it does not prohibit the posession of scanners in vehicles.

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 8:13 pm

R07.07.00
DSP N7.03.20

when i was talking to the watch commander,i gave them the S/N (the sticker on the back matches the one displayed in test mode), and it is a clean S/N...

what exactly do those features do??
chad

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 8:29 pm

as it stands - i can not listed to the LAPD.

i would not mind listening to main dispatch... the watch commander told me i could, and she said that dispatch channels (1-18) are NOT ENCRYPTED (another LAPD officer who works in the IT department even told me what frequencies are not encrypted (but are digital)

i called them to make sure the radio was clean, before i finalized purchase.

i main use of the radio is to use it on frequencies my employer has licensed (which is APCO25), and for gmrs/frs channels.

[ This Message was edited by: chad_g69 on 2002-04-06 23:31 ]

Elroy Jetson · Post by **Elroy Jetson** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 8:33 pm

You can not legally use anything but an FRS radio to transmit on the FRS channels.

From the Batlabs main page, click on 'utilities and other resources' and then click on the interactive flash code decoder. From there, type in your flash code and you will see what you have.

Your firmware versions are just fine, and fairly recent. Your radio is fully capable of monitoring LAPD.

Elroy

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 8:36 pm

thanks for the info for FRS

i know what the flashcode options are... just wondering what they did as far as functions on the radio (the OTACx ones)

anyone have a codeplug that will read w/ 8.5rss w/ my flashcode/model#???

chad

[ This Message was edited by: chad_g69 on 2002-04-06 23:37 ]

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 8:39 pm

Speaking of monitoring a digital police band, has anyone accomplished to listen to the CT State police? What options does the astro radio have to have to do this? I remember awhile back that someone has accomplished this?

Jonathan KC8RYW · Post by **Jonathan KC8RYW** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 9:45 pm

On 2002-04-06 22:20, slolightbar wrote:
Techie... FYI - You CANNOT posess, whether on or off, a scanner in the city limits of Los Angeles while in a vehicle... it is a city ordinance. I know - strange, but true !

I don't care what anyone else says: I believe that no state or local government can make rules restricting where you can use a reciver.

Recievers are not FCC regulated, other then for Part 15 emmissions. That is the joy of the USA, compared to other countries. In some countries, you have to get the reciver licensed from a regulative body.

If you can have an AM/FM radio in your car, you should be able to have a scanner, too. Both are recievers. And, both are capable of scanning (newer car radios.)

Each day that our government controls what we can or cannot listen to is nothing more then blatent censorship, which is a violation of our First Amendment rights.

No body owns the air. I think that our government has forgotten this important core value over time, especially lately with the Electronic Communications Privacy Act of 1986.

I believe that this is due to lack of public opinion on the topic. Write a letter! Let the FCC rulemakers know what you think!

I can only wonder how much "soft money" the FCC recieved from cellular and paging companies during the rule making of ECPA. It makes me sick.

Our authorities need to get a clue.

Terrorists use cars... so does that mean I'm a terrorist because I drive a car? No.

Terrorists use scanners... so does that mean I'm a terrorist? NO!

Final thought: I say, find a lawyer, and get arrested with your scanner. And fight it all the way to the top.

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 10:34 pm

As for the thing about getting caught with a scanner, or for that matter an astro saber radio which was monitoring the local astro 25 system, If you get pulled over, turn the radio off.
As long as your radio has a lock code on it, (Which mine does in case it happens to get stolen by someone who does not know what they stole=useless)then they will never be able to say that you were listening to anything. Just make sure it has a lock code.

Not that the above is anything new, but I figured that I would mention it anyway.

Most States should exempt certain people, such as Vol FD people, Cops, 2-Way radio service tech's etc from not being allowed to have a scannner/ or other radio that are capable of rx on PD freqs.

I know the chances of a cop, fireman, etc getting busted for one would be slimmer than a plain Joe, But never the less, It should be on the books somewhere, or at some point someone will get burned.

Post by Pj » Sat Apr 06, 2002 10:47 pm

FOR MT2000 MAN

The CSP flashcode is 100008-000000-0
IMBE and SMARTZONE. That's it. The portables are XTS3000 Model 3's, and the mobiles are W4 Spectra's. Only the SWAT and special teams are using DES-OFB. Each troop has two talkgroups-Dispatch and a car/car channel.

CSP is letting news agencies monitor their transmissios via a line connected to a troops or Middletown's HQ. The news people are prohibited from rebroadcasting any transmission and have to pay all costs associated with the link.

Right now the only link you can hear is at Troop W. The troopers are on the 800 system but the NG are on the old Troop W VHF system which is cross linked. This is due to a shortage of radios. But you will only hear Trp W.

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:04 pm

PJ, I know this may be an obvious question, but can a CAI radio monitor such a system as the Conn. system you mentioned in your last post?

Thanks

Oh, and theoretically speaking, how hard is it to program the astro to monitor such a system like the CSP?

Lastly, I would think that it would be cheaper and better quality audio to purchase an astro capable radio for the News monitoring people, as I can say that at work I am paying Verizon over $2000 monthly to keep lines in service for an Orbacom system. (I know, there should be links in place of the copper and data lines) but the management wanted to cut $18,000 off of the bid quote. Funny part is that the lines always have level changes and such which require the system to "re-train" nightly and even then, if levels change during the day, it's over...(DUH)

[ This Message was edited by: CHEFA2001 on 2002-04-07 03:07 ]

[ This Message was edited by: CHEFA2001 on 2002-04-07 03:08 ]

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:17 pm

its me again...

i need help

please -....

anyone have a codeplug that i can use, so that i may program my radio...

thanks
chad
[email protected]

Post by Pj » Sat Apr 06, 2002 11:22 pm

As long as you set the radio to digital csq, you should be all good without a system key. I believe the trick for scanning the smartzone system should work just fine. Also, for CT at least, it would be a matter of where you live if you can get the radio chatter. Being a smartzone system, if the CSP isn't active in your area, you may never hear anything until a radio affilates in your area. SO yes, as long as you have IMBE, you should be all good.

I can't wait until we start to install our ONE whole channel IMBE system. Should be fun to play with

CHEFA2001 · Post by **CHEFA2001** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 12:02 am

Just for reference to anyone who may be interested on this topic:

Late in 1993, the FCC issued another declaratory ruling that upholds the idea of Federal preemption of any state or local regulation that would impinge on the ability of licensed amateur radio operators to have mobile ham equipment that was incidentally capable of receiving police or other frequencies. The docket number for this ruling is P.R. 91-36.

Here is where I obtained this "clip" from:
http://nf2g.com/scannist/usa_index.html

chad_g69 · Post by **chad_g69** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 12:30 am

on the RSS i have, the main menu option 'F4' states change/create/view radio codeplug data

on my MT2000, and my Saber III i can create a codeplug from scratch, and program it into the radio...

the Astro has that option on the main menu, but once i push F4, the option to CREATE the codeplug can not be found... any ideas???

chad

Post by Pj » Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:49 am

You CANNOT create a codeplug with the ASTRO line of radios, legally. On a legit radio, the codeplug is unique to the radio, and is defined by Model number, Serial number, and Flashcode.

You can CLONE radios, but the model number and flashcode HAVE to be identical.

Only the factory/depot can CREATE codeplugs with the Depot software that is not available (legally) outside the service center. Local service shops do not have access to the software.

Playing with LAB can kill your radio, and if you send it to motorola for repair, they will know exactly how it was killed. The depot software is issued to specific employee's and be traced back....

Hope that helps.

MT2000 man · Post by **MT2000 man** » Sun Apr 07, 2002 7:52 am

Pj:

Thank you for your help !

Post by Pj » Sun Apr 07, 2002 1:07 pm

If ya need anything, PM me, and I'll try to help out anyway that I can