What are the common problems with the HT1250/750?

[hsfdchief200]

We are planning an upgrade to our radio system soon. We will either go with HT1250s for radio dispatchers and HT750s for all other firemen, or Kenwood TK-2180s for radio dispatchers and TK-2160s for all other firemen.

I know there are varying opinions on the 750/1250. I also work for the Sheriff's Office as a dispatcher, and all the deputies have just received new HT1250 LS radios. They are so much worse than the HT1000s and even the few HT750s they used to have. At an accident scene the other day, 3 separate officers tried to call dispatch using the 1250 and couldn't get through. One of our firemen was there with his Kenwood TK-270 and was able to relay their messages with no problems at all - clear as a bell.

So what should we be aware of and consider when trying to decide between the HT750/1250s and the TK-2180/2160s? Any experiences, good or bad, with either radio is appreciated. We have no preference either way; we just want the best radio.

[Splat]

I'd go with the Kenwoods. We've got TK-3180 (uhf brother of the TK-2180) radios and never had a problem yet. Daily useage, bumps, drops, etc., and still working. In all fairness, have those 1250's that were problematic been checked out afterwards for alignment? The HT series being made today is a lot better than the first couple of batch runs.

Another thing to consider.... If you had HT1000 radios then the dept pro'lly has accessories for them. They might want to look at the newer "PR" series radios coming from Motorola which are compatible with the HT1000 accessories. Check here for more info on them: http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.p ... sc&start=0

[hsfdchief200]

In all fairness, have those 1250's that were problematic been checked out afterwards for alignment?

To my knowledge, they haven't been checked. Almost every 1250 they have doesn't transmit very good at all. They've had them for about 2 months now.

I don't think the S.O. is worried about the accessories - all of the new HT1250s and speaker mics were purchased by OEP, so it's nothing out of their pocket, except the ability to transmit!

[SonicSounds]

In all fairness, have those 1250's that were problematic been checked out afterwards for alignment?

To my knowledge, they haven't been checked. Almost every 1250 they have doesn't transmit very good at all. They've had them for about 2 months now.

Check alignment, programming, and make sure you have the correct antenna. You can get a "broad band" (pardon the language its early in the AM) antenna for those things that isn't worth a hill of beans. I have never found a radio that will out-talk a properly setup HT1250! Besides, for mission critical applications, Motorola seems to have a much better reputation for standing behind their products and quickly turning around repairs at the depo.

Jon

[jim]

Make sure to have the correct later style antenna.
Also, make sure the AUTO POWER is disabled. It seems that most "M" shops have no idea on how to program a Waris radio other than dumping in 16 channels and throwing it out the door.

Another thing to consider with the Kenwoods is that if you may someday need MDC signalling. You'll have to add a Cimmaron or Midian board. If going Kenwood, look at the 90 series portables.

[firecomm]

Another thing about the 1250's is that you can transmit Quick Call II with them so they would be very handy for your dispatchers. (That is if you page volunteers on the same band as the portables)

[Alan]

We sell both and from a service shop side, go with the Kenwood’s. They are big revenue produces. We will service a Kenwood far more often than a Motorola. Basically the Kenwood’s can not take as many drops as a Motorola.
The parts are generally much longer delivery on the Kenwood’s so we make extra money from rental radio when customers are waiting for parts (2 months is not unusual).

From a user point of view, buy the Motorola's. By far more reliable, especially if you are talking public safety.

Just my experience from years of practical experience.

[Pj]

Are they actually operating on a LTR system?

The current HT1250's are actually pretty good radio's. The firmware issues from a few years ago have been resolved. If they are using LS radio's and not on or need to be on a LTR system, I would consider trying to get them normal HT1250's.

I would have the programming double checked. A common problem I find is that:

Pre/demphasis are not turned on
Power level is not set to High
Running narrowband on a wideband channel
Trying to use the Xpand stuff on a wideband channel (earlier CPS allowed this, not sure if the newer ones will disable it if the channel is on a wideband channel)

[wx4cbh]

Don't forget the Auto Power mode could be enabled. Auto Power is a plot by MotherMoto's competition to slip a Trojan Horse feature into Waris radios to make the end user wish he'd bought a different brand of radio. Guaranteed to work, too.

[5-sides]

Its been some time since I worked with them, but I seem to remember the PROfessional series portables had problems with the side bezel. It came off often, resulting in the loss of the keypad for the PTT--also corrosion on the PTT swx/flex cable. Oh, and corrosion at the bottom of the main board. Not my first choice for a fireman exposed to water on regular basis...just my 2 cents

[Wes]

I have never owned or used an HT1250, but we service many, many of them on a regular basis. They seem to have major performance and durability issues. I will acknowledge that if a product is subject to the right amount of abuse, it will fail, no matter what make or model it is.

I can provide positive comments and first hand experience for the Kenwood TK-x180 and TK-x160 series portables. They are feature rich will do many of the same features of the HT1250 and will do some things that the HT1250 will not. Just a note, these radios will encode 2-tone as well. People seem to make a big deal out of MDC, I personally dont see what a big deal this is. As long as a radio has some type of PTT ID that works. Kenwood's FleetSync is working just fine. It allows for quite a bit of advanced signalling options. Another note about these radios, they have a built in voice inversion scrambler, I know this is not FBI, CIA level security, but is nice in a pinch or on the fly.

We have put several of these Kenwoods in service and they are all running strong. Only time will tell their durability, etc. So far, so good.

We have to face the music and take better care of our radio equipment than we used to, nobody makes MT500's anymore.......

I would offer this suggestion. Go to a reputable Kenwood shop and get a couple of the TK-x180, TK-x160 radios for demo. If they are a reputable company they will let you keep them for a couple of weeks to evaluate them. This is my shop's policy. We would rather you decide if the product will work for you, before spending a wad of money and then having something you cant use.

My $.02......


Wes
Wes

[wx4cbh]

I have both a VHF and a UHF HT1250 and have had no problems whatsoever with either, HOWEVER I do NOT recommend these radios for daily abuse by those who think a radio is a multipurpose handtool. Compared to let's say a Jedi series, you're dealing with a semi-toy radio. I have no trouble because I take great care with my radios, and that's the most important consideration here: they're my PERSONAL radios.

As mentioned, there are programming considerations that most shops seem ignorant of, and ignorance of and/or ignoring these considerations can make the radios damn near useless. May as well use 'em for multipurpose handtools.

IF you have shop that can make you a good deal, and IF that shop knows how to program the units to perform for your application, and IF your users can take reasonable care of them, I see no real difficulties in getting HT1250s. If you can't answer all the above questions positively, take Wes's advice.

[JD]

My experience with Kenwood vs. Motorola. Go with A Motorola radio. Kenwood parts not readily available in a timely manner, severl days to weeks,don't hold up over the years as well as Motorola, have had interference with the receivers in the Kenwoods.

Motorola parts and repair are quick, if you can get throught the screeners ,the techs are very helpfu, even foloow up calls.

I have several radios out in a dusty damp environment. The Motorola HT series,(P1225 discontinued), hold up much better then the Kenwoods the company uses.

[Splat]

Over the years I have construction and shipyard friends who have switched to Kenwood. They all claim the repair turnaround has greatly improved as of late. Speaking to a shop that knows us as Motorola-only, they gave high marks to Kenwood products that have come out within the past two years. For non-Motherola I prefer the new Kenwood TK-2180/TK-3180 radios. My personal experience is I prefer the feel and performance of an Astro Saber or Jedi series.

[craig]

We have 20 HT1250s and 7 EX600XLSs, both models have been flawless for us. This is a small police department that uses them daily, each officer has their own issued radio. We have the newer (2003 era) firmware. The officers love the radios and they are a huge improvement over our previous GP300s.

[TWL911]

I have owned an HT-1250 since early 1999, my radio has very early firmware 1.00.03 if I recall. I, unlike many others, have never experienced any problems with my radio. I will say that the 1250 will take some substantial abuse. It has been dropped, submerged, scratched, banged, you name it. And it still works flawless. The only thing I wish I had known was how poor the Tx performance is when using a speaker mic. Like noted above my radio has survived because I paid for, and I take care of it. I would NOT buy or reccomend any waris series radio to any public safety agency, because lets face it, if you didn't pay for, you're a lot less likely to take care of it.
To be perfectly honest I would have said "go ahead, buy some 1250's" That is of course BEFORE I picked up a Kenwood TK-290.
The 290 is more rugged, easier to use (IMHO) , easier to program (can you say field progammable) , from what I have seen offers superior performance, and once you compare audio quality side by side you'll never want to use a Motorola again. The Kenwood X90's and newer X160-X180's are designed for, and hold up better to Public Safety use
I have been a die hard Motorola fan for years, but my recomendation: Look to Kenwood for your Fire dept radios.
My next purchase: TK-5210

[N3IVK]

I will put my HT1250 up aginst ANY Kenwood portable.

The receiver will out hear it , even in high IMD environments

The receive audio volume will run you out of a vehicle on the interstate at 70 MPH. The HT1250 has rx audio, and lots of it . Kenwood should rename the volume control to "distortion".

Anybody can build a transmitter, but the ability to build a good receiver takes good engineering. Motorola has proven to do this time after time again.


Check programming. By defualt expansion is turned on in every channel....turn it off. That's one setting that drives me bonkers.

A good Motorola shop should be able to set them up properly. I have programmed literally hundreds of them locally for fire depts and all the feedback has been positive.

Kenwood makes good ham radio rigs, Motorola builds a working radio for business and public safety.

Matt

[Splat]

N3IVK, I disagree about the TK2180/TK3180 radios' audio. I compared the audio on a 3180 to a HT1550 and both had what appeared to be the same amount of actual loudness/volume and intelligibility. Crank a 3180 up, as I have done, and you'll have no problems hearing it flying down a freeway with all windows down. We could have went with the HT series, but we didn't. We've been happy with the 3180's.

[jmr3865]

how do you know when you just upgrade the firmware?

[Garyf629]

We have over 250 Ht-1250's being used by Police, Vol. Fire & EMS. We had some problems back in 1999, solved most of them with a MT-1000 antenna, and a reflash of the firmware. We still have all 12 of the 1999 models still in use today.

Over the years I found that most of the problems we experienced were as a result of faulty programming. I still believe that most of the early problems with the Waris line was that the programing was to much for the average radio tech. It took me almost 6 months to get it right. Back in 1999, there was not a lot of programming experts like there is now.

We have had our share of hardware problems, including one run over by a type III ambulance. When I got it back to the shop, connected it by jumpers to a battery, replaced the antenna, it STILL WORKED! Both transmitt and receive. The majority of our other problems were the satndard battery contact problems that a quick trip to depot fixes.

I have just got our first batch of Kenwood TK-2180's, there is no doubt that Kenwoods program a lot easier than Motorola's. Our Kenwood dealer, is a small shop in Western Mass, has been just as fast, if not faster than the local multi shop, multi state Motorola dealer. We have used both 30 & 90's series moblies, Tk-290 portables over the years. So I can't say anything bad about Kenwood service.

As a matter of fact the owner of the Kenwood shop helped me out more with fixing the programming problems back in 1999 with the 1250's, than the local Motorola tech.

Just my .02, not likely even worth that much

[SlipNutz15]

Well I believe I've understood a lot of the options that need to be a certain way but how do I get my radio upgraded to a different firmware? and does it benefit to flash the firmware?