trying to upgrade the radio comm within my town for our local ch
we have a simplex freq w/ diff radios.
I have to make all of the radios in the rigs the same
to give each member a radio
upgrade the dispatch console
add a tact ch
add a repeater
add an emergency dispatch center
I also need to get a tip on the type of a console or should i got for a cad system. I was thinking the cad system would be the dispatch console. thanks
upgrade comm
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jmr3865
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upgrade comm
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fire_master_21
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Re: upgrade comm
Not to sound like an ass, but what is the reason your department has chosen you to take up this task? If I were you I would tell them that they should have someone that does this kind of work on a daily basis do the work.
This scares me! If you don't know what you are doing with this you are putting the fire department at risk of law suits, the fire personnel at risk as well as the public. This just seems a a huge undertaking and risk. I wouldn't what any of that on my shoulders if something where to happen.jmr3865 wrote:add an emergency dispatch center
Light travels faster than sound. This is why some people appear bright until you hear them speak.
You are going to need a lot more than a random price pulled out of my ass for a grant. They are not going to give someone hundreds of thousands of dollars if the person asking for it doesn't know what they are asking for. We've done radio grants here and it is a lot more complicated than you think.
It isn't an insult on you. It is actually wonderful that you want to do this and the department wants your help. You and them have recognized the need for upgrades and aren't insistent on staying in the stone ages. However there must be a line drawn somewhere. This is life safety stuff we are talking about here. If my department told me to write a grant for a new engine, I wouldn't do it because I do not have the knowlege and experience to do it correctly. It just isn't that simple. You really need to have a reputable vendor or two or three write up some proposals, find one or two that you like, and base your grant off of that. Your grant needs to be based on real stuff, not made up figures and guesses.
It isn't an insult on you. It is actually wonderful that you want to do this and the department wants your help. You and them have recognized the need for upgrades and aren't insistent on staying in the stone ages. However there must be a line drawn somewhere. This is life safety stuff we are talking about here. If my department told me to write a grant for a new engine, I wouldn't do it because I do not have the knowlege and experience to do it correctly. It just isn't that simple. You really need to have a reputable vendor or two or three write up some proposals, find one or two that you like, and base your grant off of that. Your grant needs to be based on real stuff, not made up figures and guesses.
"I'll eat you like a plate of bacon and eggs in the morning. "
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
what I would do, is go around online, searching for companies that provide the equipment/services that you need, then list three or so of those companies, and their quoted prices, then "choose" the lowest price that fits your needs.. showing MORE than one price/solution "shows" that you've tried to find the least expensive option that fits your needs,although I've never written a request for a grant before(well,not a FORMAL one),I have thrown together quite a few proposals, and I assume that most agencies requesting a grant(just like in a proposal) are required to show that they're not "wasting" money.jmr3865 wrote:I just need a basic price on the CAD system (basic), a dispatch console and a vhf repeater including new freq. I am also looking for ideas to further help.
Hire a consultant and/or talk to your local vendors.
Any grant is going to require you to specifically line out what you want to buy. Writing "one basic CAD system" isn't going to fly.
CAD systems require lots of care and feeding... we're trying to install one now, but we're actually having to have maps created for the county. A dispatch console can be as simple as a tone remote or as complex as a small Orbacomm and still fall in the "basic" category. As for the repeater, where's it going? P25 or analog? Got antennas? What RF conditioning products do you need?
If your grant deadline is soon and you're still at this stage, you're sunk. Although you've started at about the right time to start considering your grant request for next year. I'm assuming you're looking at the AFG grants...
Any grant is going to require you to specifically line out what you want to buy. Writing "one basic CAD system" isn't going to fly.
CAD systems require lots of care and feeding... we're trying to install one now, but we're actually having to have maps created for the county. A dispatch console can be as simple as a tone remote or as complex as a small Orbacomm and still fall in the "basic" category. As for the repeater, where's it going? P25 or analog? Got antennas? What RF conditioning products do you need?
If your grant deadline is soon and you're still at this stage, you're sunk. Although you've started at about the right time to start considering your grant request for next year. I'm assuming you're looking at the AFG grants...
Be careful here. Having worked for a couple of communications companies over the years, you haven't even started to provide enough information to start looking for money prices on the SYSTEM. You may not want to go with the lowest bidder for the equipment. The lowest bidder may not provide all the equipment your looking for.
A CAD system involves much more that you think. Like what information will it contain? What will it use to process this information? How many display screens will the CAD system use? How many operator positions will be requied? Will new furniture be included in the system? Will you provide ergonomic positions for the operators? Will the phone system be intergrated into the CAD system? Where will the recording equipment be located and how many channels will be required.? How many radios will be intergrated into your CAD system? This list might seem like it goes on forever. In fact it does. The better you provide all the details, the better chance of obtaining a grant.
Don't forget to include MOU (Memorandum Of Understanding) for all the partisipating agencies around you. With the supply of money starting to get tight again, you need the best written document you csn come up with. Don't forget to include the information on how the state fits into the picture.
If you go look at the safecomprogram site, there is a wealth of information there. You need to do your homework. Don't forget that just because you submit a proposal or request for grant funds, you have no garrantee that you will get it. The smoother you can write the grant request, the better off you are in placing your agency closer to the top of the selection pile.
Jim
A CAD system involves much more that you think. Like what information will it contain? What will it use to process this information? How many display screens will the CAD system use? How many operator positions will be requied? Will new furniture be included in the system? Will you provide ergonomic positions for the operators? Will the phone system be intergrated into the CAD system? Where will the recording equipment be located and how many channels will be required.? How many radios will be intergrated into your CAD system? This list might seem like it goes on forever. In fact it does. The better you provide all the details, the better chance of obtaining a grant.
Don't forget to include MOU (Memorandum Of Understanding) for all the partisipating agencies around you. With the supply of money starting to get tight again, you need the best written document you csn come up with. Don't forget to include the information on how the state fits into the picture.
If you go look at the safecomprogram site, there is a wealth of information there. You need to do your homework. Don't forget that just because you submit a proposal or request for grant funds, you have no garrantee that you will get it. The smoother you can write the grant request, the better off you are in placing your agency closer to the top of the selection pile.
Jim
kb3jkp wrote:what I would do, is go around online, searching for companies that provide the equipment/services that you need, then list three or so of those companies, and their quoted prices, then "choose" the lowest price that fits your needs..jmr3865 wrote:I just need a basic price on the CAD system (basic), a dispatch console and a vhf repeater including new freq. I am also looking for ideas to further help.
OK. You are clearly not listening. Nobody is giving you a price because it is not a question that is answerable. It just doesn't work like that. Nobody here is intentionally trying to not help you. You are asking an unreasonable and impossible question. You need to stop being stuborn and listen to what people are telling you here. Once again, I am glad you want to be progressive with your department but you need to find someone qualified to come up with these plans.
"I'll eat you like a plate of bacon and eggs in the morning. "
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
- Some loser on rr.com
eBay at it's finest:
Me: "What exactly is a 900Mhz UHF CB?"
Them: "A very nice CB at 900Mhz speed!"
Grants...
Just my $0.02....But I have written a few grants. Even gotten a couple of them..... You are better off contacting a few of the radio shops in your area/State. Give them an idea of what you want, and ask them to come up with a list of equipment and costs include ding installation, maint, etc..... It should be an itemized list, showing how many portable, how many mobiles, etc. They would have a nice folder put together showing everything, and that should give you what you need for the grant. If you can get more than one to do it, would be nice to show prices are in line with each other for your research side of the grant request.
All of the above comments telling you that what you’re asking is not helpful are correct. Unless you have a local business that will just hand over a blank check, getting a few e mails with vague prices and equipment lists is only going to make you look foolish if you tried to submit it with a grant request. Most of the places I have dealt with (local foundations) understand that you do not do it for a living and don't get upset if it's a little rough around the edges, but you still need to explain why you need the money and exactly how it would be used....
If you’re not sure what you want or need, the local radio shop will help, but an idea is to visit any friends in other departments and see what they have, might also help with ideas on how it helped them or solved problems, all will help you justify your request later in the application.
You might want to look at a seminar for grant writing. Here in Ohio the Police Academy had several 1 day classes a year for under $100.00, you could also find out who is on the various foundations and see if you know anyone who can put you with them and get some guidance on exactly what they want. They will probably ask for financial info that you may have to dig for, so I recommend talking to someone at least one of the foundations (if that's where your going to ask for the money from) to help you fill out the application. You might also want to come up with a short list of what current problems you are having with your current system and what you expect form the system you’re asking for, and how the equipment you’re asking for will solve the problems you’re currently having.
You might also ask around for other departments that have gotten grants, get a copy and see how they approached the issue. Will help you in your application and justification.
I bet this is not what you wanted to hear, but if you went to a foundation and actually got money with they type of documentation you’re asking for, the foundation would be inviting an audit, not something the foundations are looking for....
As far as the request for a price on a repeater, or CAD...the above comments are also correct there.....
What your asking for is someone to tell you how much a Chevy costs.... what model...what do you want it to do... are you talking a Trail Blazer, or a an old chevette......
Asking for a price on a CAD is the same... How many stations, how many options do you want... what about system maint. Installation, who is going to install and service it, are they going to have to come from out of state to install, then train, how many people are going to be trained? You see there are way too many UN answered questions for someone to give you the answer you want. If they do, you’re inviting trouble.
The people above that are asking more questions are not fighting you; they are trying to help you. If you get some moron to say I will sell you a cad system for $5000.00, sure, they might... you take that to whomever handles your funding and tell them that, and 6 months later you get a bill for a $5000.00 cad system, and $3000.00 for training, and $1000.00 for shipping, and $10,000 for maint. Who will look foolish?
I am not trying to insult you... but look at it like this.
If you decide you need a flashlight, and ask for a price on one.. You might get 20 different responses. If you look in a Galls catalog, you can see many flashlights. But while your looking, you know you need it to do this, and that, and it must have this feature..... You need an aluminum one, not a plastic one, you need it to be black, and not the day glow red or green for the FD, and you need it rechargeable, not the small plastic ones that the Firefighters put on the helmet that you get for $3.00 at Wal-Mart... Right!!!!????? Do the same thing...what are you looking for, what do you need it to do.... etc.
I hope this helps.
DFC2
All of the above comments telling you that what you’re asking is not helpful are correct. Unless you have a local business that will just hand over a blank check, getting a few e mails with vague prices and equipment lists is only going to make you look foolish if you tried to submit it with a grant request. Most of the places I have dealt with (local foundations) understand that you do not do it for a living and don't get upset if it's a little rough around the edges, but you still need to explain why you need the money and exactly how it would be used....
If you’re not sure what you want or need, the local radio shop will help, but an idea is to visit any friends in other departments and see what they have, might also help with ideas on how it helped them or solved problems, all will help you justify your request later in the application.
You might want to look at a seminar for grant writing. Here in Ohio the Police Academy had several 1 day classes a year for under $100.00, you could also find out who is on the various foundations and see if you know anyone who can put you with them and get some guidance on exactly what they want. They will probably ask for financial info that you may have to dig for, so I recommend talking to someone at least one of the foundations (if that's where your going to ask for the money from) to help you fill out the application. You might also want to come up with a short list of what current problems you are having with your current system and what you expect form the system you’re asking for, and how the equipment you’re asking for will solve the problems you’re currently having.
You might also ask around for other departments that have gotten grants, get a copy and see how they approached the issue. Will help you in your application and justification.
I bet this is not what you wanted to hear, but if you went to a foundation and actually got money with they type of documentation you’re asking for, the foundation would be inviting an audit, not something the foundations are looking for....
As far as the request for a price on a repeater, or CAD...the above comments are also correct there.....
What your asking for is someone to tell you how much a Chevy costs.... what model...what do you want it to do... are you talking a Trail Blazer, or a an old chevette......
Asking for a price on a CAD is the same... How many stations, how many options do you want... what about system maint. Installation, who is going to install and service it, are they going to have to come from out of state to install, then train, how many people are going to be trained? You see there are way too many UN answered questions for someone to give you the answer you want. If they do, you’re inviting trouble.
The people above that are asking more questions are not fighting you; they are trying to help you. If you get some moron to say I will sell you a cad system for $5000.00, sure, they might... you take that to whomever handles your funding and tell them that, and 6 months later you get a bill for a $5000.00 cad system, and $3000.00 for training, and $1000.00 for shipping, and $10,000 for maint. Who will look foolish?
I am not trying to insult you... but look at it like this.
If you decide you need a flashlight, and ask for a price on one.. You might get 20 different responses. If you look in a Galls catalog, you can see many flashlights. But while your looking, you know you need it to do this, and that, and it must have this feature..... You need an aluminum one, not a plastic one, you need it to be black, and not the day glow red or green for the FD, and you need it rechargeable, not the small plastic ones that the Firefighters put on the helmet that you get for $3.00 at Wal-Mart... Right!!!!????? Do the same thing...what are you looking for, what do you need it to do.... etc.
I hope this helps.
DFC2
Not to pig-pile here, but one of the problems with pricing a console is that you first have to design it. Consoles consist of a mix of modules, cards and other options, and they are priced a la carte (plus spares, programming, assembly, installation and testing, and furniture). So until you have a fairly firm idea on number of lines, number of operator positions, nature of equipment connected to, and hundred other details, no price would be meaningful.
If you just want to know order of magnitude, a Series 4000 controlling 10 lines (all TRC), with two operator positions, patch, and IRR functions will probably cost about $100,000 +/- 20% once you factor in equipment, assembly and installation, programming and testing. This does not include any of the connected equipment (e.g., radios, voters).
Please listen to the guys; this project requires more experience in this particular field than you have.
If you just want to know order of magnitude, a Series 4000 controlling 10 lines (all TRC), with two operator positions, patch, and IRR functions will probably cost about $100,000 +/- 20% once you factor in equipment, assembly and installation, programming and testing. This does not include any of the connected equipment (e.g., radios, voters).
Please listen to the guys; this project requires more experience in this particular field than you have.