I HAVE to ask - why SO many modes/channels?

[wa2zdy]

Hi there.

As you can see, I'm a ham. We LOVE lots of frequencies as a general rule. After a while, what one uses gets narrowed down. For example, I have a Syntor X in my car - 32 modes. I have 16 ham frequencies, one business frequency (on the up and up), and the rest are receive only for the local fire, EMS, etc. Even I couldn't think of 32 2m frequencies to use.

So here's my question. What does a public safety agency, or a business for that matter, possibly need 48 or 128 or 255 modes for? I mean, most have a few frequencies at most, don't they? I work for a large state agency and aside from the trunking system, we have exactly two conventional frequencies: the repeater and talk around. Isn't having dozens or hundreds of frequencies overkill? My Syntor X for example came from a state DOT. They have, as far as I can see, 10 frequencies they use statewide. Double that for talk arounds, and it's 20. That seems like a BIG system to me.

I'm just curious, maybe I don't know diddly about public safety anymore, but . . . as for business, I have legal permission to use ONE simplex frequency. What would this business do with radios with dozens of modes?

Thanks for entertaining my question. I'm curious.

[Tom in D.C.]

Chris: Good question. I have two Saber III's, VHF and UHF, which I can't fill up, a VX-150 which I can't fill up, a VX-5R which I can't fill up, and a VX-900 which I really can't fill up, because it has 512(!) channels. Maybe this is a reaction to not having a VFO, (except for the VX-5R, of course) you think?
(So tell me, doctor, what is this portable radio fetish I have?)

Seriously, public service agencies have always tended to collect frequency assignments "just in case" and in anticipation of future needs. I suppose they figure that if THEY don't get them on FB8 status ("I got it and no one else in the area can use it) then someone else will beat them to it.

Regards,

Tom, W2NJS
...in D.C.

[Ra]

Very dangerous to ask this question.....

[Astro_Saber]

county /city interagency

seattle alone has a ton of trunked channels and so does the county

if they programmed them all in 1 radio looking at 150+

[Nand]

[Code3Response]

My MCS2000 has 255 channels and 110 watts. I have every single channel filled up with all UHF channels in the County, and main PD channels and other pertinent freqs from surrounding counties. I have a 110 watt mobile in my vehicle because I usually use it as my work vehicle (work for the county public works dept as a construction engineer). Getting 32.7 cents a mile is a heck of a lot better than having to use a dept pickup!, especially when I Drive over 100 miles a day. Being a construction engineer, I usually am supervising paving operation on county roads, usually in the MIDDLE OF STINKIN' NOWHERE! In a county with 350,000 people, 80 miles long by 60 miles wide or so, with anywhere from ocean on one side to mountin ranges at the other, with lakes, rivers, valleys, mountains, forests, and everything else in between, 110 watts is needed to reach our repeater, even though its at the highest site in the county. (Our comm guys dont get it... using K*nwood 25 watt mobiles, and everyone wonders why they cant hit the repeater within like 20 miles of it . Better to have too much power than not enough, right? Same with my vehicles lighting setup.

[jim]

110 watt?? My lowband drives a 600 watt amp!

[Monty]

WHY?

As radios evolved, so did the desires of Millions
of perosns, each wanting there own radio and
having it to be flexabe enough to meet their
own needs and desires.

One main reason is MONEY !

So, the Mfg of radios made changes to fit
the needs of the users. Icom, Kenwood,
Yaesu ( and others ) were way ahead of
Motorola when programmable radios evolved,
and as time passed, even more smaller radios
were desired.

I don't think to many persons are using Bag Phones
anymore as a example.

As for me, yes, Im still am very happy with 1-2 Repeater
Channels, and a few Simplex channels, but I know many
other associates that want all 255 Channels loaded into
their radio, and if there was space for more, they would
want those filled too...

So, Motorola will build Radios that will fit the needs of the
Masses, and the few...Hence one can buy a HT750 with limited
Specs, and or a HT1550 with everything !

But with whistles / bells, one does make sacrafices in radio
perfomance. However, one does get just about everything else in
return....Only Motorola would come up with a programmable
battery? What a waste...Why couldn't they just have a Jumper
inside like other radios in the past?

Anyhow, I still perfere [ Performance ] over whistles and Bells,
and a good old trusty Saber 1 still easily does 6-1/4 to 6-1/2
watts with ease, and well, If I need a smaller radio, I just use
a smaller battery, or use my Visar

My trusty Visar has worked perfecly from day one, but I also
know how to take care of it as well....But like any small radio,
if you drop them alot, you will be replacing . rather than repairing
them.

So, there are Radios now to fit just about everyones needs.

Motorola now even makes radios for childern !! So you
can't say they are not trying to cover the whole market
range....Again, Its MONEY

MS

[vhfr1289]

I think it all depends on the user.

In my aplication I work in a public safety department which sits in two countys and working fire, police, and medical we have to be able to communicate with multiple agencys hence lots of channels.

That being said I do think some of these radios with 200+ channels is a bit over kill.

I personaly would like to see more features like key pad programable, and more user friendly menus instead of more channels.

[wa2zdy]

Thanks for the replies and ideas. I've never run into an agency here - as a scanner listener only - that has all that many frequencies. The local PD has two repeaters and two talk arounds. The fire guys have 8 county channels (no repeater) and EMS uses 3. I could keep well abreast of what's going on in my area listening to just that.

Obviously, things are different elsewhere.

Again, thanks!


And as for 110w, who said I'm running 110w? Actually, the Bird says about 135 . . . Seriously though, I suppose I don't always need it all, but I use three ham repeaters on 2m on a regular basis, and I don't live particularly near any of them. And I have a 30 mile one way commute, and since none of these repeaters is on a very big building, I'm in the fringe a lot. When I had 50w, there were places I could not get in that I can now. I know, it's only a few dB, but it fills in the holes. Good enough for me.

Thanks again fellas!

[alex]

I think I have about 100-120 personalities in my HT right now.

Iterms of 110w? Well, right now I only have a VHF 50w spectra, and a 25w maxtrac on UHF.

The only reason why I have a 110w astro spectra drawer is because the price was right. It'll get tuned to put out around 50-60 watts, and that's more than overkill for what I need.

-Alex

[mavericknet]

All of those channels are a wonderful thing, and as a proactive ambulance agency we could use every one if not more of those channels IF the radio was cross band, I can fill in at most 16 UHF channels 23 VHF channels and 6 VHF low channels. Throw them all into one handheld and hot dog I've finally got a command radio that my chief(s) will stop whining about.

[Flametamer]

Here is an other dangerous question:

Why do some of you need to run 110 Watts mobile?

Nand.

Because we are in the middle of nowhere, and there are way too many hills between here and there.


dt

[hfitzgerald]

Hmmm.... Less channels???
Between the Ham repeaters (about 25), Search & Rescue channels (10), plus the basic law enforcement/fire (16). I could get by with 50 or so channels.

-But, there's a lot of other stuff that I like to monitor too, the rest of the Fire channels, Marine 16&22, Weather Sevice, etc. I've found that my handheld Yaesu FT-50 is almost as big as I'd like it to be (100 ch). Between my VHF and UHF listening/operating, I'd like to have about 115 channels. Some of them would only be used once a year (security channels for the Air Show, parade freqs, etc), but it's nice not to have to program them in every year.
If I wanted to listen to the local medical channels, I'd need a whole new radio (60+ medical channels for my county and the immediate areas outside, and yes, there's plenty of traffic on them). It seems like every hospital has a few channels, the helicopter/AeroMed units, every ambulance company, etc.

I think the channel needs of an individual are directly dependent on the local population and the population density. My neighborhood is occupied mostly by trees, but if you draw circle around Grand Rapids (30 mile radius or so), I'm contained in that circle along with about 1 million people. That's more than the entire state of Montana. -And, since I live on top of a sandune along Lake Michigan, I can work the Ham repeaters along the coastline of Wisconsin. Oh, I'm only running 50 watts in the car, with a 3/4 wave. (soon to become a 5/8 once I find another loading coil with an NMO mount).

May God's blessings and more radio channels be in abundance to you all.
Fitz.

[KitN1MCC]

Well for me Coming from a Railroad Background lots of channels is a good thing

RR have a total of 98 channels you can load up all those chennels and go any were in the country (if they are on nomal RR channels) and beable to communicate or listen in >plus then u have room for your own channel the local pd,fd or the what have u plus room to expand

As for 110 watts on RR channel the tower are spread out and need to to back haul to sites kinda of like mini cells along the line.

[techie]

Lets see.. On the fire side, lets start thinking about mutual aid.

Probably don't need 120, but when you start putting in all the local/regional
dispatch/tactical channels, CDF dispatch/tactical channels, OES, USFS, BLM, NIFC, CALCORD, etc, it starts adding up.

When your engine company gets dispatched as part of a OES strike team to
the other end of the state, you don't have time to take it over to the radio shop
for reprogramming.

Of course, in the context of ICS, not everybody needs all the channels. Only the strike team leader needs to be able to talk outside the strike team, everybody else needs to be able to talk among the strike team.

[techie]

For my personal vehicle, I have loband x9000, vhf spectra, uhf spectra.
I'm programming them with standardized ham channels, even the
pairs that are not active in the area (free pair in the bay area? you're joking!)

I'm using the /\/\ radios as replacements for several lower grade radios, and I want to be able to jump around as needed for ARES/RACES ops, or when I drive up to Washington state to visit the parents.

Sometimes I wish I could have more than 128 channels in the spectras..
I'm planning on moding the x9000 to 128 as well, since I already ran out of space, and I haven't even started putting in red cross or CHP frequencies.

[Dale Earnhardt]

Where I live, what I seen on LAPD Radio, they put all there Local Agency surrounding them, and then they have there primary channels, and tac channels, and, all those other channels, to many to name lol

Even LASD and other agencies are switching over to XTS now, and usually are larger bandwidth, and they usually put other agenceis in there so they can coumunciate with them too, and like usualy all mutual aid channels, CLEMARS, you name they will put it in there, just for the heck of it lol.

SO oh yeahh PD or SHerriff, can fill those sucker up easily

[1 Adam 12]

Depending on the agency and work you will find agencies that actually have the need for that many channels. This is our old setup, but radios where actually set up in banks with modes for both the appropriate agency channels setup for the area, but also the local county police and county sheriff. Because the agency dispatch center is in one County and the agency assigned zone is 2 counties to the north and one to the south, and these are big counties, and the dispatch center was not a 24hr dispatch and when it was forwarded, you where dealing with a operation center over 300 miles away....so if you need to run DL's, tags etc, or needed help you got on the local Sheriffs channels, 4 counties at the time all VHF , with about 10-20 channels per county. Throw in 10 -20 local PDs with 2 channels each ,x 4 counties another 10 with mutual aid, Coast Guard 20, Highway Patrol 4, and then your own 16+, plus another 60 + from the rest of the Alphabet soup group and you had somewhere in the neighborhood of 160-200 easy. But when set in the right groups, if you where in that county then all possible modes would tie you into the agencies in that County. You drove across a County line you switched to the appropriate group. Plus we had portables with Converta-coms mirroring the mobiles. Now its 3 bands of radios 800, VHF, UHF, with trunking on two bands , 4 modes of encryption , Smartnet, Smartzone, Edacs and now it looks like EDACS provoice will get thrown in. Which means another set of radios. On the other hand, $$$$$ has a lot to do with it. Go thru some of these towns that have it and you will find the 120 channels Saber 3 with 8 channels in it, or the Spectra with 99 channels and secure for talkaround. Just a view from the far side of the field.

[chpalmer]

Why so many channels? Who Knows!!! 110 watts? So I can out do the Winegard Television Amplified Antenna that has centered its frequency agile annoying hum on my repeaters input!! Havent heard? see - http://www.winegard.com/products/mobile ... omers.html

And to get a better signal into my reciever than the co-channeled guys running 110 watts 50 miles south of us. and Tim Taylors my hero!!!!!

[Nand]

[RFdude]

Very interesting discussion about power and modes....

Without commenting which perspective is right, wrong, best ... I'm sure there are always exceptions.... but in Canada, the licensing department allows only 30W ERP for mobiles for 138 to 470 MHz. No more. And if you pay the big dollars to co-locate on a very high tower or mountain top, they will also limit the base station power to something like 10W ERP. The actual base station power must be justified using mobile talk back calculations. They argue that there is no point having better talk out that talk in. The only way around this is to claim that there are pagers on the frequency. Then 125W ERP is the limit for the base station.

This contrasts with 900 MHz paging, where they allow 1500W ERP.

The newest wrinkle to the high power station, are the RF density calculations that must be provided for new base stations. This takes into account the cumulative RF radiation for the roof top or tower proposed. Having too much cooking power means that one has to restict access to the roof... or the application may even be denied.

Once at the Dayton Hamvention, one of the guys in the parking lot had a 53 MHz 110W Lo-Band Micor in his car. At night, we took a flourescent tube out of a motel room and tried to see how far away from the car it would light up! About 10 feet or closer would do it every time. To light up the tube requires about 300V/m!

RFDude.