keying a Quantar via external PTT connection

[adlertom]

I am trying to key a Quantar using pins on the rear 50 pin telco connector.

The manual states this can be done by grounding pin 47 (aux in 9/ ext PTT -) to pin 7 (station ground). A further requirement is that pin 8 (+5VDC) must be jumpered to pin 22 (aux in 9/ext PTT +).

When I try this the station doesn't key.

The station has basic wildcard. The RSS manual says there's is a default set of wildcard state/action tables for various basic functions, one of which is external PTT. When I look at the codeplug for the station I see no such tables. The RSS manual also doesn't give any guidance on creating such a table.

What am I missing here? We would prefer to use external PTT instead of tone keying, as our SpectraTac comparator doesn't have a tone keying module.

[Bill_G]

Working from memory - that is correct. You have to supply external plus and minus to the aux i/o for it to work. Then you gate it or provide a relay closure with the appropriate polarity depending on what you are using to key the station. In your case a SpectraTAC which can only provide a ground closure - so you want it on the low side of the aux i/o. Then you have to define the aux i/o in the wildcard section of the rss. Add a table and use the drop down menu to select the function and port you want.

[adlertom]

Thanks Bill. I'm having trouble figuring out the wildcard setup. I don't find any "default set of wildcard/action tables" in the codeplug or RSS.

It would be helpful if I could either:

1. get a copy of a codeplug from someone that uses external PTT keying, to use as an exemplar, or
2. send my codeplug to someone and have fill in the fields correctly.

The guidance in the manual on how to do wildcard programming is rather lacking (perhaps that's a different manual?)

[Bill_G]

What version rss you using?

[adlertom]

What version rss you using?

Version R14.07.00

[Bill_G]

I'll see what I can do for you tomorrow.

[d119]

Try turning on the "Phone Patch" option in the RSS Hardware screen. I seem to recall having a hell of a time interfacing external equipment to a Quantar until I turned this option on, and then everything worked normally.

In the configuration I was working on, I just had to ground one pin, and that's all it took to key the thing. It should NOT require relays/voltages/jumpers/etc.

[adlertom]

Try turning on the "Phone Patch" option in the RSS Hardware screen. I seem to recall having a hell of a time interfacing external equipment to a Quantar until I turned this option on, and then everything worked normally.

In the configuration I was working on, I just had to ground one pin, and that's all it took to key the thing. It should NOT require relays/voltages/jumpers/etc.

Thanks for the idea. I just tried it, unfortunately no change. No default state/action tables for external PTT presented themselves.

If I could get either an codeplug exemplar or a short tutorial on what to set the wildcard fields to, that would be helpful. I could also possibly email the codeplug to someone who knew what to set the fields to.

[d119]

Look for Ext PTT on one of the two DB25 connectors. That's where I found it, and NO WILDCARD ANYTHING was required.

The only thing I've ever had to pull off of that Amphenol connector was COS. And that shouldn't matter to you.

Seriously... Look at the manual again, and focus on the DB25's.

[adlertom]

Look for Ext PTT on one of the two DB25 connectors. That's where I found it, and NO WILDCARD ANYTHING was required.

The only thing I've ever had to pull off of that Amphenol connector was COS. And that shouldn't matter to you.

Seriously... Look at the manual again, and focus on the DB25's.

There is indeed a PTT on connector #14, pin 11. This is labeled as the 6809/MRTI connection. I can try that tomorrow.

As an alternative, I just spoke with a friend of mine who says he might have the modules I would need to upgrade the comparator to tone keying.

[Bill_G]

There should be a tab in the manual marked backplane with the pinouts for all the connectors. The advanced manuals will cover more than one model backplane, but in general the pinouts remain the same. What does change is the availability of the functions based on the controller and wireline cards. However, the 25pr connector and the MRTI connector a pretty safe bets they will work no matter what model you have. The 25pr is great if you want to terminate everything to a 66 block using a m-m 25pr cable. Otherwise, it can be a pain to connect to. The 66 block will make monitoring and setting levels easy. The MRTI connector has fewer functions, but all the basics, and is generally easier to interface to if you don't foresee a need to intercept signals for troubleshooting. It is the preferred connector in trunking systems.

[adlertom]

Gentlemen,

I tried grounding pin 11 on connector #14, the DB25 6809/MRTI connector, and the station still won't transmit. I connected pin 11 "control signal to key transmitter/active low/6809" to pin 16 "station ground/6809".

I also tried grounding pin 11 directly to the chassis and that didn't key it either.

Tom

[d119]

Again, make sure Phone Patch is ON when playing on the MRTI connector.

[Bill_G]

Hopefully this image doesn't blow the margins on the page.

I took a screen shot of a Quantar using aux 9 input for PTT using v14.08.00. Aux 9 is an optoisolator. So, you have to supply both 5v and ground to drive the led as described above. In general you use your ptt to apply ground. Then you go into Configuration / Wildcard tables to define the input from the drop down menus. First thing you do is give it a name - I named this one EXT PTT. Then you go to state and conditions to select from the drop down menus INPUT 9 with no additional conditions. Then action (when ptt is applied) is KEY FROM WL (wireline), and the inaction is DEKEY FROM WL. Works perfect.

Hope that helps.

[RKG]

I seem to recall that the DOS RSS for Quantar had an F key that would regenerate the "default" wildcard tables. I don't have the Windows CPS on this machine, so I can't peek to see if that function was brought forward.


Note that if you are keying from a wireline, you are probably also intending to use wireline audio for transmission, and I seem to remember that this may require some wildcard tables to set up the audio routing.

However, it may be that I'm remembering something required for controlling an in-cabinet Quantar via an external repeater controller, not a simple wireline.

I also recall that the Quantar maintenance manual had a bunch of wildcard tables in the back for various configurations. Again, the book isn't here so I can't check.

[Bill_G]

The default wildcard tables are: there are no wildcard tables. You can default the i/o to standard states. Defaulting the tables erases them. That's because you can write conditional if-then-else statements that can cause odd behavior if done wrong. Rather than forcing you to drill through all the tables to find the mistake, you can default them erasing all the tables, and returning the ports to normal.

Take for example in cabinet repeat. You can define a Quantar as a base or a repeater. If you are using a comparator, then you will tell the Quantar it is a base with SpectraTAC tone control. Normally with most radios, if your phone lines fail, or the comparator dies, your repeater is dead in the water. OTOH the Quantar can be programmed upon carrier/pl det to expect a keyup command on the wireline. There is a box you can check that if the Quantar doesn't see the keyup after a short period of time, will go into in cabinet repeat and keep your system functioning. That is a simple wildcard function they have built into the rss.

But, if you are not using tone control, if instead you are using E&M keying, or some other method of COR and hardware PTT (like in a simulcast system), then you can write a wildcard table conditional statement that says STATE: CARRIER DET, STATE: WAIT (100mS), STATE: WAIT, ACTION: KEY FROM RX, INACTION: DEKEY FROM RX. The station reads the tables in descending order. So, if it sees EXT PTT INPUT 9 active in table 1 first, it will ignore table 2. But, if it has carrier det, it will wait 200mS, and if INPUT 9 does not become active, it will repeat from the rcvr audio.

I'm working from memory, and may have the state and action values incorrect, but I have done this to several systems, and it works well. I've also used it as a poor man's monitoring system to send site alarms over the air. I can have the door sensors tied to a station input, and whenever someone enters the site, the station will send out an alarm. There are no brains behind this action, and if you have many things monitored, you won't know which external device is causing the alarm, but you will know that something is happening at the site that may require your attention.

As you practice with the wildcard tables, you will find there are limitations, but there are also numerous functions available that can be very handy to implement.

[adlertom]

Bill and others,

I programmed the Quanter with your "EXT PTT" wildcard exemplar (thank you). Then, on the 50 pin telco connector, I jumpered pin 8 (+5V) to pin 22 (Aux In 9/Ext PTT+), and then jumpered pin 47 (Aux In 9/Ext PTT-) to pin 7 (ground). It still doesn't key the station.

Does this look right, or do I need to so something else?

[Bill_G]

Tom - Jumpering 47 permanently to ground will apply PTT all the time. Break that jumper and use the PTT from the comparator - which goes to ground - to key the radio. You can test it locally by grounding pin 47 to pin 7. The radio should key. Alternately, you can tie pin 22 (input 9 + ) to pin 33 (+14v). My drawings show it done both ways - pin 22 to pin 33 or to pin 8 depending on the general potential of the device I was tying to.

[Bill_G]

Found my notes for in cabinet repeat on a hardwire PTT. I defined the radio as a repeater rather than a base in the RF Config screen. Table 1 defines EXT PTT on input 9 as shown above. Table 2 is named COMPARATOR FAIL - STATE: RX PL DETECT, STATE: AND NOT INPUT 9, ACTION: RPTR KNOCKDOWN, WAIT 500mS, RPTR SETUP, INACTION NULL.

So, upon pl detect, the Quantar immediately knocks down the internal repeat, and waits 500mS. If the comparator is present, it will send back a PTT command on input 9 and the system will repeat normally. However, if input 9 does not become active within 500mS, the station will turn the internal repeat back on.

[xmo]

If there was no wildcard programming in your codeplug - and all you did was define the wildcard table as described above - it won't work.

You must go to the wildcard inputs page and either define the input you wish to use - or simply set the input configuration to default.

[Bill_G]

No kidding? You have to at least look at the input screen and default it, or it won't work? I can't confirm that, but I'll take your word for it. It may have been something I ran into, and don't recall how I fixed it. I've put in hundreds of them, and each project brought it's own challenges. Getting the wildcard to work may have been a short lived problem solved within a day and I just don't remember. It took me part of a day to figure out the in cabinet repeat failover solution described above, but I got it. Same with site alarms. They are some cool machines, and I don't know if anyone has taken one to it's full potential.

[RKG]

Slightly off the topic, but:

The only problem with the FBICR ("Fall-Back In-Cabinet Repeat") function of the Quantar is that it doesn't work if you have both a Main and a Stand-By station, as is commonly the case in public safety systems. So what we do is program the stations for "Repeater," and then install a SAM card that defaults into "Repeater Disable." If for some reason both the main and the standby are lost -- usually a wireline failure, though it could be a voter failure as well -- we can activate one of the machines for in-cabinet repeat via DTMF and then control it from the console via one of the control stations.

[Bill_G]

Thinking ahead in your system planning is always a good thing.

[adlertom]

Thank you to everybody who tried to help me with this problem.

Nothing I tried worked. I even called the Motorola systems support center. They gave me a slightly different jumpering method to try, but that didn't work either.

I needed to have the system up by this coming Monday, so I'm keying the repeater via an alternate method.

Thanks again to all.

Tom

[Bill_G]

You're welcome Tom. It should have worked, but apparently not for you. What did you do?

[adlertom]

You're welcome Tom. It should have worked, but apparently not for you. What did you do?

For various other reasons, we ended up replacing the SpectraTac voter with a JPS SNV-12. The JPS has an E&M keying input, so we'll just use that.

[Bill_G]

And then you use tone control from the JPS to key the station? That'll work.

[adlertom]

And then you use tone control from the JPS to key the station? That'll work.

Yes, that's exactly what we're doing.

[xmo]

"...Nothing I tried worked...."
-----------------------------------

What firmware version does your Quantar have?

I had a problem with an early Quantar where I enabled wildcard in the programming but it did not work. It seems that early firmware does not support wildcard but apparently the RSS doesn't check the firmware version - so it lets you program the feature even though the station does not support it.

[IjeSJot]

I had similar problem. External PTT keying worked only when Quantar was set to base station, in repeater mode it won`t work!

[runtime1]

Not going thru all of your replies...You might investigate your MRTI interface